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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2016 6:32:17 GMT
Seeing as its popped up again, no you dont TLW.
You have the right to stand at the side of the road and wait.
If its a road crossing, you have the right to "Request stop" the traffic by just standing there.
The moment you step out, your now on my Turf.
If its not a Stop light controlled crossing, you should wait until the road is clear or someone stops for you, you must also cross under the common sense of continue to check each way, 'cos there is always the twit who will just overtake a stopped car.
Things may be different over your side of the water, but in UK, you do not have the right to step out in front of moving traffic wherever you are.
So why do we have all these crossings of they give you no right?..
They are placed in the most safe place on that road in the hope that all the lemmings stick together in one bunch.
I upgraded mine, its now double the horn, and as the horns are tuned to a discord, its not that "meep meep" of a suppressed stoat with tonsillitis any more.
I was planning to get a truck one under there, but the cost of full air is more than the bloody car is worth?..
I have used the handbrake once or twice to get a good scrape going on on the back end, but all that does is shorten the life of the tyres?.
Otherwise, its all round ABS here and the most I can do without horn is wave the windscreen wipers in a menacing way?...
Unless I have the window down, and the shout of "Bar-star" can be heard, or 'Cyka', which is Russian for the female canine, if you watch enough of those caught-on-camera crash video's you hear that one quite often from the Russian entries.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2016 6:38:16 GMT
On the subject of winter driving, now it is winter here, and we have a severe lack of the big white.
What we do have is "water".
My engine is not waterproofed.... in any special way...
But I do have the knowledge that slow down use 2nd and keep revs up but not screaming, then "push".
Has that art been forgotten?.
What I am seeing more than is comfortable, is max revs and attack like its some enemy?...
Wading through water, Your supposed to get a bow-wave going and just follow that through, in deeper stuff with a waterproof engine, NOT get that above the bonnet height?..
If you start getting water on the windscreen, your going too fast.
Your also aquaplaning by that time, you dont have much steering control.
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Post by the light works on Feb 9, 2016 6:49:11 GMT
Seeing as its popped up again, no you dont TLW. You have the right to stand at the side of the road and wait. If its a road crossing, you have the right to "Request stop" the traffic by just standing there. The moment you step out, your now on my Turf. If its not a Stop light controlled crossing, you should wait until the road is clear or someone stops for you, you must also cross under the common sense of continue to check each way, 'cos there is always the twit who will just overtake a stopped car. Things may be different over your side of the water, but in UK, you do not have the right to step out in front of moving traffic wherever you are. So why do we have all these crossings of they give you no right?.. They are placed in the most safe place on that road in the hope that all the lemmings stick together in one bunch. I upgraded mine, its now double the horn, and as the horns are tuned to a discord, its not that "meep meep" of a suppressed stoat with tonsillitis any more. I was planning to get a truck one under there, but the cost of full air is more than the bloody car is worth?.. I have used the handbrake once or twice to get a good scrape going on on the back end, but all that does is shorten the life of the tyres?. Otherwise, its all round ABS here and the most I can do without horn is wave the windscreen wipers in a menacing way?... Unless I have the window down, and the shout of "Bar-star" can be heard, or 'Cyka', which is Russian for the female canine, if you watch enough of those caught-on-camera crash video's you hear that one quite often from the Russian entries. here, the official rule is cars are required to stop for a person who wants to use the crosswalk. - what they all ignore is that they must allow the cars to safely stop before entering the lane. - and that is what "dead right" means - exercising your right of way in such a way that it becomes fatal to you. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 9, 2016 6:53:58 GMT
On the subject of winter driving, now it is winter here, and we have a severe lack of the big white. What we do have is "water". My engine is not waterproofed.... in any special way... But I do have the knowledge that slow down use 2nd and keep revs up but not screaming, then "push". Has that art been forgotten?. What I am seeing more than is comfortable, is max revs and attack like its some enemy?... Wading through water, Your supposed to get a bow-wave going and just follow that through, in deeper stuff with a waterproof engine, NOT get that above the bonnet height?.. If you start getting water on the windscreen, your going too fast. Your also aquaplaning by that time, you dont have much steering control. I agree - people here do that, too. they don't understand that driving through water takes a different strategy than driving through a brick wall. my mechanic said that during these last high water he was getting two or three cars suffering from hydro-lock (water in the cylinders demonstrating incompressibility) per day. Attachment DeletedI do have to admit to goofing off now and again. but I can say for a fact that getting water in your cabin air intake is a huge inconvenience. - visibility immediately ends. |
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 9, 2016 6:58:42 GMT
Seeing as its popped up again, no you dont TLW. You have the right to stand at the side of the road and wait. If its a road crossing, you have the right to "Request stop" the traffic by just standing there. The moment you step out, your now on my Turf. If its not a Stop light controlled crossing, you should wait until the road is clear or someone stops for you, you must also cross under the common sense of continue to check each way, 'cos there is always the twit who will just overtake a stopped car. Things may be different over your side of the water, but in UK, you do not have the right to step out in front of moving traffic wherever you are. So why do we have all these crossings of they give you no right?.. They are placed in the most safe place on that road in the hope that all the lemmings stick together in one bunch. I upgraded mine, its now double the horn, and as the horns are tuned to a discord, its not that "meep meep" of a suppressed stoat with tonsillitis any more. I was planning to get a truck one under there, but the cost of full air is more than the bloody car is worth?.. I have used the handbrake once or twice to get a good scrape going on on the back end, but all that does is shorten the life of the tyres?. Otherwise, its all round ABS here and the most I can do without horn is wave the windscreen wipers in a menacing way?... Unless I have the window down, and the shout of "Bar-star" can be heard, or 'Cyka', which is Russian for the female canine, if you watch enough of those caught-on-camera crash video's you hear that one quite often from the Russian entries. here, the official rule is cars are required to stop for a person who wants to use the crosswalk. - what they all ignore is that they must allow the cars to safely stop before entering the lane. - and that is what "dead right" means - exercising your right of way in such a way that it becomes fatal to you. Actually SD is wrong, you do not have to wait for traffic to stop before entering a crossing it is the opposite. You do need to make sure vehicles have seen you and are slowing to stop. www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestrians---crossings-18-to-30.htmlwww.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203" . Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped." The code means that zebra crossings work in pretty much the same way as your crosswalks do, cars have to stop for people at crossings, but people have to wait for cars to see you and safely slow or stop before crossing. It's also not'Your Turf' you are forbidden from doing anything to hurry the pedestrian crossing the road, no revving engines, blowing horns or waving at them to hurry while they are crossing is allowed, they can take as much time as the need to cross the road. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2016 7:28:45 GMT
Pedestrian "Zebra" crossing, no lights.
In that, sorry, I am right... I should know this by now?...
You have the right to step a foot onto the crossing to indicate you wish to cross, but you MUST check that traffic HAS seen you and HAS stopped before you cross....
The moment you walk out on front of a moving vehicle that has not at least shown good intention to stop and allow you to cross, there is the opportunity to not have been seen because the driver is looking at another potential hazard and you in your fashionable dark coat and black jeans are almost invisible.
This is why they say "Wait for traffic in BOTH directions to stop" for a two lane.
It goes on (a little)
[/b][/quote]
That bit is missing the obvious "And has seen you crossing"...
"I am crossing you should know that" is a pizza poor excuse.
If its dual carriage way and the vehicle that stopped in the left lane is a large truck, how does the driver in the right lane know its stopped for a pedestrian, broken down, stopped so the driver can deliver.....
Moving onto the crossing and forcing a vehicle to emergency brake is against the law, you MUST give reasonable time to let traffic stop, causing any vehicle to emergency brake with no good reason is against the rules of the road, and you being late for work is not good enough reason.?...
I know, there is a LOT of grey area in that, and what substitutes a reasonable time to allow traffic to stop.
If the traffic is nose-to-tail, its generally accepted you wait for a break in that traffic, as if you are on the opposite side to the driver, he cant see you.
Of course this all differs for pedestrian controlled traffic lights...
If the light is Red for traffic, you have all the rights in the world to cross...
BUT YOU SHOULD STILL CHECK.
If muggins here is descending a steep hill on ice with 40 odd (and some even) ton sliding my backside sideways, I dont care if there is a lollipop man in High-Vis waving a flashing LED stop sign at me, I aint going to stop skidding, so you should still look carefully around you at all times.
From the link you posted...
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 9, 2016 8:33:31 GMT
Yes but it does not mean that a pedestrian has to wait at the side of the road and wait until a driver decides to stop to allow them to cross at your page at the top of the page seemed to imply.
Both the driver and pedestrian has to use common sense, a driver must slow down if they are able to do so if they see a person waiting to cross the road, but the person crossing the road cannot expect a driver to do an emergency stop to allow them to do so.
As much time as you need to use the crossing is not the same as loitering around the crossing.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2016 9:20:39 GMT
Considering this is not a light controlled junction or crossing...
Crossing a road gives you about the same right as pulling out of a side street in a vehicle, no more, no less.
You wait for a gap in the traffic, or for a vehicle to indicate he is giving way, by stopping....
Until then, the traffic already on the road "Has right of way"
This is the same for either zebra crossing or marked drop in the pavement crossing points with central reservation, or any point at which people use as a regular crossing point.
The paint on the road gives you no "Rights", its just an indication of where the marked crossing is, and a visual landmark for drivers to expect people crossing at that point, and its a request stop point where pedestrians can await a polite driver...
I have yet to see any official writings to say they have any rights forcing the issue on non light controlled crossings.
Thats why they now have PeLicCans, Pedestrian Light Controlled crossings.
If it is light controlled, then if its red, the driver MUST stop.
I see no reference in any law that forces a driver to slow down for someone intending to do the crossing.
I do see that its the pedestrians duty to wait for the driver to slow down or stop.
If they have started to cross, then yes, but they must have waited for a suitable gap.
If a pedestrian has awaited a suitable gap and has started to cross the road, then it becomes the drivers duty to stop, but not if that pedestrian has just wandered out.... the Americans call that "Jay Walking".
In the above posts that may have started this, if the driver HAS to slam the brakes on, creating lots of tyre smoke, brake grinding, and other indications of "Emergency stop", then the pedestrian is using the crossing incorrectly.... and dangerously....
Back in the late 90's, I was doing a trip along a road past a school, and some kids were playing a game.
The game was put a foot on the crossing, wait for a car to stop, then "pretend" you changed your mind and walk away along the pavement.
It annoyed me as I had to stop in the line for a dozen or so cars ahead of me, being in a large van, I had the high seat, and a good view.
I got even more annoyed when I saw that after half the cars ahead had moved on, the kid moved back to the crossing just as I was getting there and started the "game" again...
I cant have been the only one "not amused" by that, as later that week, I hear over the radio that those kids carried on until a Police car witnessed them, (After being asked to do so by public complaint) and were detained until parents appeared, at which time they were ordered to attend road safety classes.
Playing "Chicken" with traffic is "bloody stupid" at the least.
Pedestrian and lunatic cyclists need to be extremely careful around traffic, its my suggestion that we force the idea "wait for traffic to stop before you start to cross" if there is traffic and presume they have no right to stop the traffic unless it is a light controlled crossing.
They may indicate they wish to cross and await a polite driver to stop by standing at the side of the road obviously wanting to cross, but must wait for a suitable gap or the traffic to stop.
And I also suggest making good speed across the road, I dont expect those with injury or disability to do a Linford Christie here, just not to dawdle across reading a book?...
May I also end with a minor rant.
If there is a marked crossing with the zig-zag of side of the road "Do not stop on this part of the road" road markings, as pedestrians, do NOT cross within 100 yds of that crossing and then have "attitude" at the vehicles on the road like its your right to make them stop.... we are watching the crossing, obviously, and should not have to expect lunatics on the road within punting distance of the crossing.
This includes walking half-way into the road and "Menacing" approaching drivers forcing them to stop for you....
This WILL get a heavy handful of horn from me, and a few insults out of a window.
If its a marked crossing BLOODY USE IT, not the road for 20 yds either side of it, and crossing by jumping out where the zig-zags are after the crossing right in front of me as I start to move after letting people cross is not good for the tyres on my truck....
I also vent at drivers who do ignore the road markings and park right in front of a crossing, thus making it almost impossible to see people needing to cross, or even those who start to cross.
I especially have a rant for the lunatic who stopped right on the crossing to allow his passenger to jump out on the crossing and start to use it, he wad damn lucky the approaching driver in the other direction didnt take hid door off.....
Marked crossings, respect them, use them properly, and have some basic non-darwinian common sense.
I had one incident where someone was at the crossing wanting to stop, so was stopping for them, and some twerp starts crossing from the other side just in front of the crossing....
So I stop, thats 80ft of truck right there, and as the lunatic from the other side was not anywhere near the crossing, they have to "walk round" my truck?...
No.
They start banging on the side shouting the odds.
No I dint take any notice of him... he is in my "blind spot" and not my problem by now.
I just laughed, and when the crossing was clear, moved on, watching him carefully in my blind spot mirror "just in case", because I have heard of people climbing under trucks to cross roads before....
I had side skirts on to prevent that happening, but you never know.
I believe the bus behind me also didnt "give way" to him, I also believe the driver of that bus "Exchanged pleasantries" with him, as I saw what looked like him thumping the bus....
I have said previously that I see all kinds of stupid every day, I only recount less than half of one percent of it on here as I have trouble remembering it all..............
You want to try driving past one of the local schools at letting out time?.. its like a plague of locusts, they just swarm over the road, like some slow motion explosion or a fast moving eruption of lava, if you stop for one, the ones at the side of you that are now blocked will make their displeasure known, or even knock on the side of the vehicle.
Doesnt happen to me, because I refuse to pass that school at those times.
(Their lack of safety scares me, its only time before another incident, there has been two injuries on that stretch this yea already...)
This is also why when I do the school run at nights, I pick my kid up 10 mins walk away from the school gates, I dont want to get myself into the danger zone of a school kid explosion.
There is local "legend" of one kid who got expelled by wrestling the lollipop out of the hand of the crossing guard an waving it threateningly at traffic to get the traffic to stop?...
Dont know exactly how much is true, but I also dont dis-believe that either.
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 9, 2016 11:24:28 GMT
Read the section on Zebra crossings again. 'Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing' To give the precise text of the law read section 25 here. 25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian. www.ukroads.org/webfiles/ZPPPCRGD-1997.pdf |
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Post by the light works on Feb 9, 2016 15:28:26 GMT
Read the section on Zebra crossings again. 'Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing' To give the precise text of the law read section 25 here. 25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, which is not for the time being controlled by a constable in uniform or traffic warden, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian. www.ukroads.org/webfiles/ZPPPCRGD-1997.pdfhere, it has become sufficient issue that the city police to crosswalk education stings. they have a retired officer who nobody can claim to have not seen (stands about 6'6" and wears a hawaiian shirt that contrasts with EVERYTHING) who crosses the road at random intervals in a crosswalk that had been clearly been marked with signs warning that there is a crosswalk safety operation going on. somehow some people still manage to get citations for failing to stop. (most drivers get a verbal warning and a lecture) I keep saying they need to do an enforcement education operation on people ignoring the crosswalk, or "crossing" the street at right angles to the crosswalk. |
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Post by c64 on Feb 9, 2016 19:58:20 GMT
my mechanic said that during these last high water he was getting two or three cars suffering from hydro-lock (water in the cylinders demonstrating incompressibility) per day.. My mechanics has an S-shaped piston rod on his desk. He was going to fix the flatbed on his old pickup VW-bus for over a year when he tried to start it after a rainy day. The water on the flatbed had found an alternate path than through the drain holes which were clogged by rust. And as usual, the engine had caught instantly - before the water could jam the starter. |
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Post by kharnynb on Feb 9, 2016 20:05:48 GMT
In finland the rule is that if you see a pedestrian intending to cross the road at a "zebra" crossing, you have to stop if able. The pedestrian has to wait till he sees you slow down, but has right of way.
You hit a pedestrian on a crossing, you better have video evidence they did something drastically stupid, cause you will be concidered guilty till proven otherwise.
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Post by c64 on Feb 9, 2016 21:05:25 GMT
In finland the rule is that if you see a pedestrian intending to cross the road at a "zebra" crossing, you have to stop if able. The pedestrian has to wait till he sees you slow down, but has right of way. You hit a pedestrian on a crossing, you better have video evidence they did something drastically stupid, cause you will be concidered guilty till proven otherwise. Same here except it isn't the driver's fault per default any more. Only childreen, old people and people where you can see that they might be unable to observe the traffic (drunk, blind, disabled) have 100% right of way. If you run over the bicycle/skateboard as well, you are fine since the "zebra crossing" is for pedestrians only. |
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Post by c64 on Feb 9, 2016 21:07:31 GMT
you better have video evidence Dashcams are now illegal on the Nürburgring. They think that they make the drivers go too fast and they don't want any nasty accidents on youtube... |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 10, 2016 7:33:47 GMT
I am going to presume that officer is not jumping out of vehicles too close to stop.....
I did write a lengthy post on the stupidity of presuming you have legal right of way over moving traffic in reply to this matter, but on review, it was rather pedantic.
The laws of the road give the existing traffic more right of way over those wishing to join the road, it has always been so.
I have yet to see proof that pedestrians have legal right to walk out on front of a vehicle at 30mph too close to stop and blame that vehicle for NOT stopping.
Green Cross Code... stop look listen..... its actually part of law in UK.
How do you KNOW the vehicle approaching has seen you?.
Simple, it slows down and stops.
Failure to adhere to common sense is not a good excuse for an epitaph.
I am out of that argument, further discussion on the legal right to jump out in front of fast moving traffic wins no awards.
It does, however, HURT, a LOT.
If there are no traffic lights or crossing guard, wait for traffic to clear, or stop, if you do that, and are then halfway across the crossing, you have "right of way", because you have been sensible.If you then just turn blind deaf and dumb and dont do anything about the vehicle that has not seen you and walk in front of it, having legal right of way?.. I have not herd of that as an effective pain killer...?...
'Nuf said, move on.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 10, 2016 7:47:23 GMT
you better have video evidence Dashcams are now illegal on the Nürburgring. They think that they make the drivers go too fast and they don't want any nasty accidents on youtube... That is a bloody good idea if ever I heard one. I use one, but would be happy to either not use it or get express permission to prove I am doing it as a video guide and allow the owners of the track full editorial rights. I use it to aid insurance purposes. I have also sent some away to Police to help in dangerous driving cases. I have asked they do not use my identity, and sent it in "Anon-i-mouse" |
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 10, 2016 7:56:55 GMT
No one has been arguing that pedestrians have the right to step out I front of cars that are too close to stop, but that they have the right to cross the round on crossings when the vehicles are far enough away to stop before they would hit them.
In the UK that distance is marked on the round, if you are outside that zone of the crossing if you cannot stop then you are driving in a manner that is not right for the road conditions.
The Green Cross Code has never been law, but was a publicity campaign most famously fronted by David Prowse, who wore the Dartb Vader Costume in The first Star Wars films, as tea Green Cross Code man. It refers to crossing the street when there are no crossing.
Yes a person should take care when crossing the road as they are far more vulnerable than a car, but car drivers need to take care of pedestrians for that reason as well.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 10, 2016 8:03:59 GMT
It was based on existing laws.
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Post by the light works on Feb 10, 2016 15:06:03 GMT
here, the insurance company rule is if you had opportunity to avoid the collision and failed to, you are liable.
if you jump out in front of a car too close to stop, you pay for the damage you did to the car. OTOH, if a pedestrian jaywalks in front of you and you decide to just plow through because he is not in a crosswalk, you are probably going to get the blame, and the bill.
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Post by c64 on Feb 10, 2016 16:16:58 GMT
No one has been arguing that pedestrians have the right to step out I front of cars that are too close to stop, This is illegal in Germany since this is "serve intervention into traffic". |
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