|
|
Post by silverdragon on Feb 21, 2016 9:29:30 GMT
The real cost of Electric cars.
The battery.
Yeah, you may pay a few quid per charge, but.....
At the current cost of fuel and electricity, your car with electric batteries that cost you so much more than a petrol engine, you need to get above 200,000 mile out of it before you break even.
Is this a myth?.
Source, the Gadget show aired Monday in UK.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Feb 21, 2016 16:07:09 GMT
The real cost of Electric cars. The battery. Yeah, you may pay a few quid per charge, but..... At the current cost of fuel and electricity, your car with electric batteries that cost you so much more than a petrol engine, you need to get above 200,000 mile out of it before you break even. Is this a myth?. Source, the Gadget show aired Monday in UK. currently the effective service life of an electric car is less than the effective service life of a conventional car. there are two valid viewpoints of going electric at the moment. 1: speculating that the cost of operating a conventional car will rise sharply in the near future. 2: rationalizing that by using an electric, you are using oil resources more wisely, despite the added cost. there are several invalid viewpoints that are popular: 1: electric cars have zero pollution. (no, they just move the pollution to the local power plant) 2: electricity just comes out of the wall, so its free. (no, you get the bill at the end of the month) 3: I'm better than you (no, you just don't have to haul half a ton of parts and tools to work) |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Feb 22, 2016 7:22:33 GMT
If thats true, most conventional cars get scrapped below 200,000 in UK....
Its not the mileage, its the wear, we spend much longer getting nowhere here.
(My own has just passed 70,000... not bad for over 10 yr old?.. )
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2016 15:06:43 GMT
If thats true, most conventional cars get scrapped below 200,000 in UK.... Its not the mileage, its the wear, we spend much longer getting nowhere here. (My own has just passed 70,000... not bad for over 10 yr old?.. ) that may affect the cost of ownership of electrics favorably over there. here, the calculated average is 12,000 miles per year. edit: by which I mean, here, it would be more likely that the chassis would outlast the batteries. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Feb 22, 2016 15:39:34 GMT
If thats true, most conventional cars get scrapped below 200,000 in UK.... Its not the mileage, its the wear, we spend much longer getting nowhere here. (My own has just passed 70,000... not bad for over 10 yr old?.. ) that may affect the cost of ownership of electrics favorably over there. here, the calculated average is 12,000 miles per year. edit: by which I mean, here, it would be more likely that the chassis would outlast the batteries. And the type of driver that would most likely buy an EV would be an urban commuter and would probably be at the low end of the average. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2016 15:50:53 GMT
that may affect the cost of ownership of electrics favorably over there. here, the calculated average is 12,000 miles per year. edit: by which I mean, here, it would be more likely that the chassis would outlast the batteries. And the type of driver that would most likely buy an EV would be an urban commuter and would probably be at the low end of the average. that's how it SHOULD be. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Feb 23, 2016 8:02:17 GMT
Typical life of existing batteries is 8 yrs. (At this time not including current technology that will improve future batteries...)
I would bloody hope that the chassis lasts longer than that.....
So you would spend an average of 20,000 MORE for a vehicle because your cost of daily drive is $1, but, because the cost of petrol is maybe $2.50 a day, "Its cheaper"...
Without doing the maths that how many days will it take you to recover the extra 20,000 you paid out in the first place.
And if that is over 8 yrs, the cost of a replacement battery pack, that could be as much as 10,000.
Unless you are renting the batteries, in that case, your daily fill of sparks may be $1, but, your also paying $2 per day to cover rental charges, so, in fact, its already more expensive than $2.50 petrol?...
The less you drive one of those, the worse it is for you.?....
How did that become economic sense?.
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Feb 23, 2016 13:23:14 GMT
I've read somewhere, I can't seem to find it now, that if just 20% of our vehicles were electric, the power grid would be at full capacity every night trying to charge them. So you can add upgrading our electrical infrastructure to the cost of operating an EV.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Feb 23, 2016 15:31:01 GMT
Typical life of existing batteries is 8 yrs. (At this time not including current technology that will improve future batteries...) I would bloody hope that the chassis lasts longer than that..... So you would spend an average of 20,000 MORE for a vehicle because your cost of daily drive is $1, but, because the cost of petrol is maybe $2.50 a day, "Its cheaper"... Without doing the maths that how many days will it take you to recover the extra 20,000 you paid out in the first place. And if that is over 8 yrs, the cost of a replacement battery pack, that could be as much as 10,000. Unless you are renting the batteries, in that case, your daily fill of sparks may be $1, but, your also paying $2 per day to cover rental charges, so, in fact, its already more expensive than $2.50 petrol?... The less you drive one of those, the worse it is for you.?.... How did that become economic sense?. battery life is measurable in charge cycles which is usually averaged out to time. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Feb 24, 2016 5:54:05 GMT
Battery "Evolution".
There are now batteries that know, and stop charging, when they are full.
So you can just plug in and walk away and forget them.
There are batteries that can extend their own life by charging slowly once a initial blast gets them to 80% to protect themself from overcharging.
There are batteries that can do that 80% in less than 10 mins.
But expensive they are, and in that, the initial outlay of the battery, its more than the equivalent cost of fuel per mile over the life of the battery.
Especially when considering if I get less than 30 to the gallon I worry about fuel economy on my own car...
And this is England, 30 to the gallon is pretty rich amongst our eco cars about at the moment, most will get 30 to 40 on urban cycle, unless you are over 2ltr, which is powerful on average.
Most of our city cars are 1ltr....
My own average is 33 to the gallon. I can do better, but I occasionally need to get there at best possible pace.
Not speeding or rushing, but use of intelligent fast acceleration up to the limit where possible?...
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Feb 24, 2016 15:25:38 GMT
Battery "Evolution". There are now batteries that know, and stop charging, when they are full. So you can just plug in and walk away and forget them. There are batteries that can extend their own life by charging slowly once a initial blast gets them to 80% to protect themself from overcharging. There are batteries that can do that 80% in less than 10 mins. But expensive they are, and in that, the initial outlay of the battery, its more than the equivalent cost of fuel per mile over the life of the battery. Especially when considering if I get less than 30 to the gallon I worry about fuel economy on my own car... And this is England, 30 to the gallon is pretty rich amongst our eco cars about at the moment, most will get 30 to 40 on urban cycle, unless you are over 2ltr, which is powerful on average. Most of our city cars are 1ltr.... My own average is 33 to the gallon. I can do better, but I occasionally need to get there at best possible pace. Not speeding or rushing, but use of intelligent fast acceleration up to the limit where possible?... heat is the enemy of batteries. several of our cordless tools now use blowers in the chargers to allow them to charge faster without heating as much. here, in the late 80s, we had a few small cars that could cruise at up to 40 MPG. then it started going back down. when it was released for sale in the US, the Smart (tm) had the same gas mileage as the BMW mini. pretty close to the same price tag, too. in general if you're over 30 MPG, here, you're pretty thrifty. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Feb 24, 2016 18:34:39 GMT
Battery "Evolution". There are now batteries that know, and stop charging, when they are full. So you can just plug in and walk away and forget them. There are batteries that can extend their own life by charging slowly once a initial blast gets them to 80% to protect themself from overcharging. There are batteries that can do that 80% in less than 10 mins. But expensive they are, and in that, the initial outlay of the battery, its more than the equivalent cost of fuel per mile over the life of the battery. Especially when considering if I get less than 30 to the gallon I worry about fuel economy on my own car... And this is England, 30 to the gallon is pretty rich amongst our eco cars about at the moment, most will get 30 to 40 on urban cycle, unless you are over 2ltr, which is powerful on average. Most of our city cars are 1ltr.... My own average is 33 to the gallon. I can do better, but I occasionally need to get there at best possible pace. Not speeding or rushing, but use of intelligent fast acceleration up to the limit where possible?... Charging a Li-Ion battery over 80% of it's full charge value greatly reduces it's number of charge cycles. That is because as a Li-Ion battery charges, it's cathode actually swells in size. As it its discharged, the cathode shrinks. It's the repeated expanding and contracting that damages the cathode. To help increase battery cycle life, the battery in the Chevy volt is only allowed to be charged to 80% and discharged to 20%. This is the only way they could get the advertised life span, which I think is 10 years. |
|
