Post by silverdragon on Mar 1, 2016 5:36:51 GMT
This is "As beast as I can find", open to correction, but...
If you, like me, have had issues with your car alarm, Key fobs not working, and have trawled the internet, you may find various advice on how to "reprogram" the keys.
Much of it is "duff", as you already know by now?..
Your already in trouble....
Some help for all of you.
And if that help is to stop you wasting more time and go get to the repair shop before they close, thats saving YOUR time and effort getting nowhere fast.
Firstly, if you have to change the batteries on your key fob, get the RIGHT ones, but dont take the old ones out....
Not yet....
Not until you have the right ones in your hand.....
The longer you have the batteries out of the fob, the more chance the unit has of "loosing" its code.
Make the task of changing the batteries as quick as possible, dont hang about, and certainly DONT do both keys at the same time?...
Do one set and make sure they work, use them for a day or two before you change out the other set.
If one key starts indicating it may be running out of battery, change those batteries as soon as possible, nor "When I get round to it I can use the spare until that ones runs low", because the one you dont change will run out completely and loose its code.
This is partly what happened to me, I didnt know the spare set had duff batteries in them, and only found out when I went to use them and they didnt work.
At all.
They had been sat in the bottom of my safe for 5 or 6 years, when the batteries died is unknown to me.
So if one set starts to play up, plan on changing batteries in both sets, because the ones in the spares have a shelf life even if you dont use them... they may die before you use them even once... and then you have two dead keyfobs and an alarm going off that starting to annoy you....[experience?.. yes, this is what happened over the weekend here...]
The below is various "advice" I have found concerning my own Toyota Avensis.
You may get different mileage for other makes and or models, but, some of it is exactly the same for all vehicles?...
Its similar for all marks of Avensis right up to new, and also for other cars across the range....
I have missed out any that DO work because they work, but only for one particular car out of thousands kind of thing. And I have no way of testing cars that I dont own.
My particular problem being that the car would lock from fob, but not UNlock from fob.
When car unlocked by key, the alarm would sound.
If you have "settings" on your keyboard smart screen that allows you too tell the vehicle you are changing the key fob batteries, read the book of words (Instruction manual) first to find out of you can do that?...
Myth "Beta fool", "there is an app for that".
There is no known way you can use your blue-teef connection on a smart phone to unlock an older Toyota that was built before your phone was invented.
They didnt have the technology back then to accept codes from a smart phone, and still dont, there is no connecting a smart phone to a Toyota security system by remote, in any way, and there never will be, to get at the security system you need a wired connection, and we aint dealing with that here.
These are ones that definitely DONT work, on many vehicles, because they are designed to NOT work, to stop your car being stolen...
Myth ONE, putting the key in the ignition turning it on (Dont start engine) then cycling the door locks three times reprograms the keys.
Busted.
.....If you have just changed out the batteries on the key fob, the car will automatically check the codes and do all the security thing anyway, which it does every time you use the keys, you cant get around that system, its anti-tamper proof, you cant manually "reset" that system, if you could, thieves would know by now?... and that advice would be "out there" on the internet... it isnt, so it cant be done?
The reason you find so much useless advice on the web that doesnt work is proof that there is no actual way to get around the security, unless you can hack your new "smart" car with a smart phone, which is a problem with newer cars that are "too intelligent" and liable to be fooled, but we aint dealing with those issues here, we are dealing with Owners keys problems.
Myth two, pressing the buttons lock/unlock [x] number of times.
Busted.
Myth three, turning the ignition on/off [x] number of times with the unlock button pressed down.
Busted.
Myth Four, put key in ignition, turn on, then stamp the brake [x] number of times.
Busted.
Myth five, put key in door and cycle locks [x] number of times.
Busted.
Myth Six, the bit of electronics inside the fob is interchangeable between keys.
DEFINITELY busted, DO NOT try that at home, DO NOT attempt, as this will screw up the code that is tied to that key, which is unique to that key and fob.
Taking the batteries out of BOTH keys at the same time, also DO NOT try that at home, see above, you risk screwing the code on BOTH sets of keys.
Myth seven, cycling the locks with a working fob then trying the one you are having problems with will tell the car that your wish to "reprogram" that key.
Busted.
And on this one, that will/may set the immobiliser off on one because it thinks someone may be trying to force a duff code to cheat the system....
Myth Eight, Taking the main car battery off, leaving it a while, and re-connecting will "reset" the system.
Busted.
Myth Nine, you, the vehicle owner, can find the alarm system and disable it.
Ya think so?... if your surprised to hear Busted here, think on?....
The alarm system is hidden deep in the depths of the vehicle where its difficult to find.
To stop thieves tampering with it.
You will need to unlock the car to get anywhere near it, and that is all I am going to say, because to divulge the exact location of those systems (see next myth) would be to defeat the security on a vehicle and I ant about to do that because that puts all Toyota owners at risk of thieves....
If you do know where they are, your either a specialist in that area of mechanics, or a very naughty boy, do not respond with the locations on this forum as the Mods will remove your post, we dont do that kind of thing here, and this thread is under watch.
[Yes I do know, no I wont be telling, to anyone, because I aint "supposed" to know, its just I am a nosy git and have had a search of my own vehicle...]
Myth Ten, my last one today, the alarm, central locking, and immobiliser are all the same system, and if you know the right fuse to pull, you can disable the lot.
See above and below on removing the car battery also on this idea.
BUSTED.
They are separate systems, and if you disable them, they send a message to the Immobiliser to lock up tight to prevent tampering.
The truth is they send the message anyway when you lock the car, and without the message being sent "Its ok, its genuine keys", the system remains locked.
The immobiliser if fail safe, so its always on unless you have unlocked the car with the right codes.
Truth, not Myth, once the keys have "lost" the code, its lost.
It WILL have to be reprogrammed, if you are lucky, that costs anywhere between £40 to £90, dependant on how good and friendly your mechanic is....
No you cant do this at home unless you have the right equipment, and that is expensive.
The car alarm may be duff.
If the transponders on keys and car both go duff at the same time, it can be wildly expensive to go to the main dealer for replacement, you can, however, get Thatcham approved (Insurance specialists) after market alarm systems fitted at a reasonable price that are as good as or better than the factory fitted.
On a 10yr+ old vehicle, you would expect a better alarm anyway?...
On removing the car battery...
Yes the car will expect to have its battery replaced at some point, no, it shouldnt be a main dealer job, but if you get it wrong, it may be.
If you must remove the car battery, especially on a newer vehicle, be patient.
Obviously you will need to unlock the car, to pull the hood release?...
Do that, take the keys with you, and go make yourself a cup of tea coffee or whatever, but leave the thing alone for at least 10 mins if you have used it at all, or after unlocking...
If yours, like mine, locks its self back up after a few mins if you dont open a door, raise the bonnet whilst your are away.....
There are systems relays and the like that we dont know about that need to go "to sleep" before you take the battery off.
Think about the above paragraph, if yours has the same system that senses you have not opened a door and re-locks the car up for safety again after a few moments, this is in case of accidental key presses (who hasnt sat on their car keys by accident at lest once?) and thats the kind of system you need to go back to sleep?...
It also may have a bonnet open sensor, and in that case, sets of a "mechanic at work" system that will accept a battery removal.
You also have internal sonic sensors that are NOT set immediately in case you have locked the car by key fob whilst you are inside the car that have a delay on them just in case of accidental key presses like that.
If you dont allow them enough time, they may set of the anti-tamper systems..... keys or not, the car will lock up and its now a main dealer job to unlock the security.
Its all about anti-tamper systems, no, you as the user, do not get the codes, the idea of taking the car to a dealer is proof of ownership, again, to deter thieves.
When actually changing the car battery, same as the key fobs, make it a quick job when changing the battery....
Some systems on the car can withstand a few mins with no power at all, some may set off the anti-tamper system if you leave them too long.
You never get a fully flat battery, so some systems can survive quite a while with minimal power.
So go get the new battery FIRST and make it a quick swap.
Those dealerships that have to do extensive work to a vehicle with the battery disconnected already know all of this and have the kind of system (or can call it in) to reset the alarm systems when they have finished.
So on reading all this, where do you think I was most of the day yesterday?...
At a repair shop getting my car "reprogrammed", because the key fob batteries had gone dead, and I had gone and got new ones whilst leaving the old ones OUT of the fob...
I didnt know some of the above at that time, I do now, which is why I am posting it, because it may be of help and save time for others...
If you have dead key fobs, go see a car Electrical alarm specialist (You local mechanic will know of anyone who can do that type of thing) and get them to help.
The Internet doesnt have the right advice.
Not at this time anyway.
Much of what you have to do to reprogram the keys is a security thing that is "Prove you own the vehicle", its to deter thieves, be thankful that not just any idiot can find how to defeat your security on here and steal your car and get a set of replacement keys quite easily.
If YOU cant do it, than neither can they.
And By The Way, getting a set of replacement keys from the car makers is expensive, on purpose, to deter thieves.
Expensive because they have to do some checking first before they issue keys that you ARE the registered owner, and have the right to get those keys, and then search the database, locate the old keys codes, and remove them, from both the car and their database, to prevent your old keys (In the case of you loosing them) from being used to steal your vehicle....
You may also have to have the locks changed if this is a case of all keys missing or lost, which is a good idea, because theft of keys is the main way of stealing your car.
Theft by Stealing the keys first is the main way to steal a car these days, because, as you can see above, security HAS got that good.
If you, like me, have had issues with your car alarm, Key fobs not working, and have trawled the internet, you may find various advice on how to "reprogram" the keys.
Much of it is "duff", as you already know by now?..
Your already in trouble....
Some help for all of you.
And if that help is to stop you wasting more time and go get to the repair shop before they close, thats saving YOUR time and effort getting nowhere fast.
Firstly, if you have to change the batteries on your key fob, get the RIGHT ones, but dont take the old ones out....
Not yet....
Not until you have the right ones in your hand.....
The longer you have the batteries out of the fob, the more chance the unit has of "loosing" its code.
Make the task of changing the batteries as quick as possible, dont hang about, and certainly DONT do both keys at the same time?...
Do one set and make sure they work, use them for a day or two before you change out the other set.
If one key starts indicating it may be running out of battery, change those batteries as soon as possible, nor "When I get round to it I can use the spare until that ones runs low", because the one you dont change will run out completely and loose its code.
This is partly what happened to me, I didnt know the spare set had duff batteries in them, and only found out when I went to use them and they didnt work.
At all.
They had been sat in the bottom of my safe for 5 or 6 years, when the batteries died is unknown to me.
So if one set starts to play up, plan on changing batteries in both sets, because the ones in the spares have a shelf life even if you dont use them... they may die before you use them even once... and then you have two dead keyfobs and an alarm going off that starting to annoy you....[experience?.. yes, this is what happened over the weekend here...]
The below is various "advice" I have found concerning my own Toyota Avensis.
You may get different mileage for other makes and or models, but, some of it is exactly the same for all vehicles?...
Its similar for all marks of Avensis right up to new, and also for other cars across the range....
I have missed out any that DO work because they work, but only for one particular car out of thousands kind of thing. And I have no way of testing cars that I dont own.
My particular problem being that the car would lock from fob, but not UNlock from fob.
When car unlocked by key, the alarm would sound.
If you have "settings" on your keyboard smart screen that allows you too tell the vehicle you are changing the key fob batteries, read the book of words (Instruction manual) first to find out of you can do that?...
Myth "Beta fool", "there is an app for that".
There is no known way you can use your blue-teef connection on a smart phone to unlock an older Toyota that was built before your phone was invented.
They didnt have the technology back then to accept codes from a smart phone, and still dont, there is no connecting a smart phone to a Toyota security system by remote, in any way, and there never will be, to get at the security system you need a wired connection, and we aint dealing with that here.
These are ones that definitely DONT work, on many vehicles, because they are designed to NOT work, to stop your car being stolen...
Myth ONE, putting the key in the ignition turning it on (Dont start engine) then cycling the door locks three times reprograms the keys.
Busted.
.....If you have just changed out the batteries on the key fob, the car will automatically check the codes and do all the security thing anyway, which it does every time you use the keys, you cant get around that system, its anti-tamper proof, you cant manually "reset" that system, if you could, thieves would know by now?... and that advice would be "out there" on the internet... it isnt, so it cant be done?
The reason you find so much useless advice on the web that doesnt work is proof that there is no actual way to get around the security, unless you can hack your new "smart" car with a smart phone, which is a problem with newer cars that are "too intelligent" and liable to be fooled, but we aint dealing with those issues here, we are dealing with Owners keys problems.
Myth two, pressing the buttons lock/unlock [x] number of times.
Busted.
Myth three, turning the ignition on/off [x] number of times with the unlock button pressed down.
Busted.
Myth Four, put key in ignition, turn on, then stamp the brake [x] number of times.
Busted.
Myth five, put key in door and cycle locks [x] number of times.
Busted.
Myth Six, the bit of electronics inside the fob is interchangeable between keys.
DEFINITELY busted, DO NOT try that at home, DO NOT attempt, as this will screw up the code that is tied to that key, which is unique to that key and fob.
Taking the batteries out of BOTH keys at the same time, also DO NOT try that at home, see above, you risk screwing the code on BOTH sets of keys.
Myth seven, cycling the locks with a working fob then trying the one you are having problems with will tell the car that your wish to "reprogram" that key.
Busted.
And on this one, that will/may set the immobiliser off on one because it thinks someone may be trying to force a duff code to cheat the system....
Myth Eight, Taking the main car battery off, leaving it a while, and re-connecting will "reset" the system.
Busted.
Myth Nine, you, the vehicle owner, can find the alarm system and disable it.
Ya think so?... if your surprised to hear Busted here, think on?....
The alarm system is hidden deep in the depths of the vehicle where its difficult to find.
To stop thieves tampering with it.
You will need to unlock the car to get anywhere near it, and that is all I am going to say, because to divulge the exact location of those systems (see next myth) would be to defeat the security on a vehicle and I ant about to do that because that puts all Toyota owners at risk of thieves....
If you do know where they are, your either a specialist in that area of mechanics, or a very naughty boy, do not respond with the locations on this forum as the Mods will remove your post, we dont do that kind of thing here, and this thread is under watch.
[Yes I do know, no I wont be telling, to anyone, because I aint "supposed" to know, its just I am a nosy git and have had a search of my own vehicle...]
Myth Ten, my last one today, the alarm, central locking, and immobiliser are all the same system, and if you know the right fuse to pull, you can disable the lot.
See above and below on removing the car battery also on this idea.
BUSTED.
They are separate systems, and if you disable them, they send a message to the Immobiliser to lock up tight to prevent tampering.
The truth is they send the message anyway when you lock the car, and without the message being sent "Its ok, its genuine keys", the system remains locked.
The immobiliser if fail safe, so its always on unless you have unlocked the car with the right codes.
Truth, not Myth, once the keys have "lost" the code, its lost.
It WILL have to be reprogrammed, if you are lucky, that costs anywhere between £40 to £90, dependant on how good and friendly your mechanic is....
No you cant do this at home unless you have the right equipment, and that is expensive.
The car alarm may be duff.
If the transponders on keys and car both go duff at the same time, it can be wildly expensive to go to the main dealer for replacement, you can, however, get Thatcham approved (Insurance specialists) after market alarm systems fitted at a reasonable price that are as good as or better than the factory fitted.
On a 10yr+ old vehicle, you would expect a better alarm anyway?...
On removing the car battery...
Yes the car will expect to have its battery replaced at some point, no, it shouldnt be a main dealer job, but if you get it wrong, it may be.
If you must remove the car battery, especially on a newer vehicle, be patient.
Obviously you will need to unlock the car, to pull the hood release?...
Do that, take the keys with you, and go make yourself a cup of tea coffee or whatever, but leave the thing alone for at least 10 mins if you have used it at all, or after unlocking...
If yours, like mine, locks its self back up after a few mins if you dont open a door, raise the bonnet whilst your are away.....
There are systems relays and the like that we dont know about that need to go "to sleep" before you take the battery off.
Think about the above paragraph, if yours has the same system that senses you have not opened a door and re-locks the car up for safety again after a few moments, this is in case of accidental key presses (who hasnt sat on their car keys by accident at lest once?) and thats the kind of system you need to go back to sleep?...
It also may have a bonnet open sensor, and in that case, sets of a "mechanic at work" system that will accept a battery removal.
You also have internal sonic sensors that are NOT set immediately in case you have locked the car by key fob whilst you are inside the car that have a delay on them just in case of accidental key presses like that.
If you dont allow them enough time, they may set of the anti-tamper systems..... keys or not, the car will lock up and its now a main dealer job to unlock the security.
Its all about anti-tamper systems, no, you as the user, do not get the codes, the idea of taking the car to a dealer is proof of ownership, again, to deter thieves.
When actually changing the car battery, same as the key fobs, make it a quick job when changing the battery....
Some systems on the car can withstand a few mins with no power at all, some may set off the anti-tamper system if you leave them too long.
You never get a fully flat battery, so some systems can survive quite a while with minimal power.
So go get the new battery FIRST and make it a quick swap.
Those dealerships that have to do extensive work to a vehicle with the battery disconnected already know all of this and have the kind of system (or can call it in) to reset the alarm systems when they have finished.
So on reading all this, where do you think I was most of the day yesterday?...
At a repair shop getting my car "reprogrammed", because the key fob batteries had gone dead, and I had gone and got new ones whilst leaving the old ones OUT of the fob...
I didnt know some of the above at that time, I do now, which is why I am posting it, because it may be of help and save time for others...
If you have dead key fobs, go see a car Electrical alarm specialist (You local mechanic will know of anyone who can do that type of thing) and get them to help.
The Internet doesnt have the right advice.
Not at this time anyway.
Much of what you have to do to reprogram the keys is a security thing that is "Prove you own the vehicle", its to deter thieves, be thankful that not just any idiot can find how to defeat your security on here and steal your car and get a set of replacement keys quite easily.
If YOU cant do it, than neither can they.
And By The Way, getting a set of replacement keys from the car makers is expensive, on purpose, to deter thieves.
Expensive because they have to do some checking first before they issue keys that you ARE the registered owner, and have the right to get those keys, and then search the database, locate the old keys codes, and remove them, from both the car and their database, to prevent your old keys (In the case of you loosing them) from being used to steal your vehicle....
You may also have to have the locks changed if this is a case of all keys missing or lost, which is a good idea, because theft of keys is the main way of stealing your car.
Theft by Stealing the keys first is the main way to steal a car these days, because, as you can see above, security HAS got that good.
