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Post by Lokifan on Jul 25, 2016 15:01:23 GMT
they do kind of show the cultural expectations of the time. with that; I'll add "last Action Hero" in which Arnold Schwarzenegger mildly sends up the entire "action hero" franchise. By all means; it's a very underrated film, in my opinion. Less fantasy based but still funny was the recent "Tropic Thunder". "The Big Picture" shows a young 80s filmmaker trying to make it in Hollywood. "Nickelodeon" is a comedy about the silent film industry. If you want a comment on being black in Hollywood in the 80s, try "Hollywood Shuffle". If you want to show them how race was shown at various times by cinema, if you can find it, try "Song of the South". It does require a lot of context if you want to give it a fair viewing, though, as it's easy to dismiss as blatant, offensive racism. It's still funny that the award winning theme song ("Zip-a-dee-doo-dah") is still used freely by the Disney company, as they will likely never release the film again. "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" and it's remake are interesting in contrast to each other (although I really didn't care for both films). If you want to see a film that changed the nation, see "Birth of a Nation". It's silent, but was the first what we now call feature length film. It has the distinction of being the first film ever shown in the White House. It's also one of the most racist films of all time. How bad? The heros are the KKK. It set off race riots during its first release. |
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Post by the light works on Jul 25, 2016 15:16:01 GMT
they do kind of show the cultural expectations of the time. with that; I'll add "last Action Hero" in which Arnold Schwarzenegger mildly sends up the entire "action hero" franchise. By all means; it's a very underrated film, in my opinion. Less fantasy based but still funny was the recent "Tropic Thunder". "The Big Picture" shows a young 80s filmmaker trying to make it in Hollywood. "Nickelodeon" is a comedy about the silent film industry. If you want a comment on being black in Hollywood in the 80s, try "Hollywood Shuffle". If you want to show them how race was shown at various times by cinema, if you can find it, try "Song of the South". It does require a lot of context if you want to give it a fair viewing, though, as it's easy to dismiss as blatant, offensive racism. It's still funny that the award winning theme song ("Zip-a-dee-doo-dah") is still used freely by the Disney company, as they will likely never release the film again. "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" and it's remake are interesting in contrast to each other (although I really didn't care for both films). If you want to see a film that changed the nation, see "Birth of a Nation". It's silent, but was the first what we now call feature length film. It has the distinction of being the first film ever shown in the White House. It's also one of the most racist films of all time. How bad? The heros are the KKK. It set off race riots during its first release. I would still love to see Song of the South - not from being a racist, but I grew up with a disney produced record of Bre'r Rabbit, and I would like to see the actual animation of it. - it would be a good example of how the country used to sanitize our history. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 25, 2016 15:24:47 GMT
Of course movies aren't telling the full truth. They may be telling some of it, but it'll always slant in whatever direction the writer wants it to. There's always more than one side to a story. Some are better at telling multiple sides than others, but none of them ever get it all. When talking about movies that might interest the SJW/BLM crowd, "Malcolm X" and "Ray" are two that at least attempt to portray the protagonists as not always doing the right thing, but they still focus more on what they did right than on what they did wrong and by no means tell the entire truth. they do kind of show the cultural expectations of the time. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that...? |
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Post by the light works on Jul 25, 2016 15:44:41 GMT
they do kind of show the cultural expectations of the time. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that...? I mean that while, for example, Top Gun, does not show what it was like to be a navy pilot during the 80s, it shows what people in the 80s PERCIEVED being a navy pilot to be like. |
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 25, 2016 15:52:37 GMT
I would still love to see Song of the South - not from being a racist, but I grew up with a disney produced record of Bre'r Rabbit, and I would like to see the actual animation of it. - it would be a good example of how the country used to sanitize our history. There's a reasonably good article on it here. There's a site dedicated to exploring and preserving the film here. Bootlegs are available at flea markets and online. I actually saw one Saturday when I visited the California State Fair--the huckster was selling DVDs from lots of rare films. |
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 25, 2016 15:54:04 GMT
It is odd that Disney released it on home video overseas but never here.
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Post by ironhold on Jul 25, 2016 17:56:33 GMT
It is odd that Disney released it on home video overseas but never here. From what I understand, that many people think the film is racist because they erroneously believe that Uncle Remus is a slave instead of a hired household servant. The compilation the film is based off of wasn't released until well after the Civil War ended, but folks don't understand that. |
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 25, 2016 18:56:20 GMT
It is odd that Disney released it on home video overseas but never here. From what I understand, that many people think the film is racist because they erroneously believe that Uncle Remus is a slave instead of a hired household servant. The compilation the film is based off of wasn't released until well after the Civil War ended, but folks don't understand that. Yeah, that's explained at the sites I mentioned, but it's the emotional response to images of class portrayed that leads to anger. I've got a copy around here somewhere; I last watched it a decade or two ago. I'll have to rewatch it with today's SJW eyes. You can dispassionately watch it, knowing that the class distinction is land owner/farmworker, but if you aren't aware it was set after emancipation, you can see it as master/slave propaganda. The problem was that many activists don't want to acknowledge a simple reality: Even on the plantations in the days of slavery, misery wasn't universal. Not every slave was constantly working to escape, or put ground glass in the Massa's food. Were they acting out of fear? Yes, but nonetheless, they just did what they needed to get by. Neither were they constantly singing and dancing, happily bowing down to their smiling, wise, benevolent owners. Again, they did what they had to do to get by. Both are exaggerations and stereotypes. Were they always treated fairly by their masters? <Expletive deleted> no. The institution of slavery was horrible and always based on theft. But life also wasn't a constant pitched battle between races, with each looking for new and unpleasant ways to hurt the other. There was too much work to do in just living. Plus, usually a slave realized that they were prisoners in a system. I've always admired the courage of those in the Underground Railroad, for providing a means to get out of that system. Which brings to life another film that came out a few years ago: "The Help". Set a hundred years later, but still showing the casual cruelty of racism. |
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Post by ironhold on Jul 25, 2016 19:49:40 GMT
That being said, another movie: A Soldier's Story
The film is set during WWII, and takes place in a racially-segregated military base located in the Southern US (IIRC, it's in Louisiana).
The sergeant in charge of the base's black soldiers was murdered while drunkenly stumbling back to base after an evening on the town, and the Army has sent an officer - the only black lawyer in the ranks - to investigate. The base commander and some of the senior officers, of course, want the matter to just go away before the death causes matters to deteriorate. Because of this, they're more than willing to rubber-stamp anything that points to a local being the murderer.
The lawyer, however, soon finds evidence to indicate that the sergeant was murdered by someone serving at the base.
...And that the shooter may well have been one of the sergeant's own men, motivated not by racism but by revenge for a squad mate who the sergeant bullied into suicide.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 27, 2016 2:44:19 GMT
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that...? I mean that while, for example, Top Gun, does not show what it was like to be a navy pilot during the 80s, it shows what people in the 80s PERCIEVED being a navy pilot to be like. So you're saying that "Malcolm X" and "Ray" also showed what people in the 90s and 00s (when the movies were made) perceived racial tensions in the early 30s to late 60s to be like, as opposed to accurately portraying how people who actually lived during those times perceived it? |
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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2016 2:59:21 GMT
I mean that while, for example, Top Gun, does not show what it was like to be a navy pilot during the 80s, it shows what people in the 80s PERCIEVED being a navy pilot to be like. So you're saying that "Malcolm X" and "Ray" also showed what people in the 90s and 00s (when the movies were made) perceived racial tensions in the early 30s to late 60s to be like, as opposed to accurately portraying how people who actually lived during those times perceived it? movies intended to be based on real events may or may not be accurate to what actually happened. but they do need to be considered separately from movies that are entirely fictional. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 27, 2016 3:04:37 GMT
I mean that while, for example, Top Gun, does not show what it was like to be a navy pilot during the 80s, it shows what people in the 80s PERCIEVED being a navy pilot to be like. So you're saying that "Malcolm X" and "Ray" also showed what people in the 90s and 00s (when the movies were made) perceived racial tensions in the early 30s to late 60s to be like, as opposed to accurately portraying how people who actually lived during those times perceived it? Yes, especially in films. Films tend to reflect the period in which they were made, not just the period in which they are set. For example if you take a look at films that relate to the American Government (be that in war films or thrillers) you can see that up to the late 60's the government is portrayed as doing no wrong. By the 70's the government is usually portrayed as corrupt, incompetent or both. Political thrillers from the 70's would be a good addition to the list of films btw. |
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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2016 3:06:15 GMT
So you're saying that "Malcolm X" and "Ray" also showed what people in the 90s and 00s (when the movies were made) perceived racial tensions in the early 30s to late 60s to be like, as opposed to accurately portraying how people who actually lived during those times perceived it? Yes, especially in films. Films tend to reflect the period in which they were made, not just the period in which they are set. For example if you take a look at films that relate to the American Government (be that in war films or thrillers) you can see that up to the late 60's the government is portrayed as doing no wrong. By the 70's the government is usually portrayed as corrupt, incompetent or both. Political thrillers from the 70's would be a good addition to the list of films btw. you think Hunt for Red October would be a good candidate? |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 27, 2016 12:35:17 GMT
Hunt for Red October is more an 80s Cold War thriller, but well worth seeing anyway.
I was thinking more of films like The French Connection, or Chinatown (I think that's the right name, stared Jack Nicholson).
Superman the movie and its sequal might be a good choice for those who have at least a passing interest in the evolution in films. It is interesting to compare the slower and more relaxed pacing of those films with modern superhero films. The Michael York Three musketeers film and its sequel fall into the same mold.
Deathrace 2000 gives an insight into how people thought the future was going to be in the 70s, in general rather than specifics. I *think* this film is now public domain and available on YouTube. But I could be mistaken.
Hitchcock films are largely a must. Some of the horror films might not match modern expectations. But as thrillers with very good leads they hold up well today. They also highlight how women were portrayed around the mid 20th century.
39 steps, Robin Hood (1939) and the original Italian Job should also be added to the list.
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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2016 13:55:06 GMT
Hunt for Red October is more an 80s Cold War thriller, but well worth seeing anyway. I was thinking more of films like The French Connection, or Chinatown (I think that's the right name, stared Jack Nicholson). Superman the movie and its sequal might be a good choice for those who have at least a passing interest in the evolution in films. It is interesting to compare the slower and more relaxed pacing of those films with modern superhero films. The Michael York Three musketeers film and its sequel fall into the same mold. Deathrace 2000 gives an insight into how people thought the future was going to be in the 70s, in general rather than specifics. I *think* this film is now public domain and available on YouTube. But I could be mistaken. Hitchcock films are largely a must. Some of the horror films might not match modern expectations. But as thrillers with very good leads they hold up well today. They also highlight how women were portrayed around the mid 20th century. 39 steps, Robin Hood (1939) and the original Italian Job should also be added to the list. seeing movies that are essentially the same story shot in different eras would be a good cultural study. I think we did mention movies paired with remakes, already. yes, Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, followed by Robin Hood (Dances with Merry Men) followed by Robin Hood with (was it Russel Crowe?) would be an example. might throw in Men in Tights as a palate Cleanser, too. for that matter, might throw in Blazing Saddles to show how we dealt with race issues in the 80s. |
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Post by ironhold on Jul 27, 2016 20:33:21 GMT
If we're doing Deathrace 2000, then we may as well do Running Man while we're at it.
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Post by Lokifan on Jul 27, 2016 21:31:03 GMT
Ya want old school dystopia?
Soylent Green. The Population Bomb mixed with global warming. I'll bet a modern day millennial will see a homosexual relationship between Thorn and Roth--and they may even be right...
Logan's Run. Never trust anyone over 30, carried to the worst extreme.
Escape from New York. Personally, seeing the Twin Towers still standing creeps me out, but seeing the decay of the city into savagery is interesting.
Demolition Man. Political correctness run amok. You get a ticket if you even say a naughty word. It's a Special Snowflake paradise.
Children of Men. More recent, but an amazing film that shows a world where there are no more babies, and the madness that results.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 27, 2016 22:28:13 GMT
So you're saying that "Malcolm X" and "Ray" also showed what people in the 90s and 00s (when the movies were made) perceived racial tensions in the early 30s to late 60s to be like, as opposed to accurately portraying how people who actually lived during those times perceived it? movies intended to be based on real events may or may not be accurate to what actually happened. but they do need to be considered separately from movies that are entirely fictional. Right. There has to be at least some level of authenticity to it, because if they deviate too much, the history books or the people still living who were around at the time will rip the movie to shreds. Of course you could always take a well known historical figure and write an entirely fictional story centered around them. "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter" anyone?  |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 27, 2016 22:52:42 GMT
So you're saying that "Malcolm X" and "Ray" also showed what people in the 90s and 00s (when the movies were made) perceived racial tensions in the early 30s to late 60s to be like, as opposed to accurately portraying how people who actually lived during those times perceived it? Yes, especially in films. Films tend to reflect the period in which they were made, not just the period in which they are set. For example if you take a look at films that relate to the American Government (be that in war films or thrillers) you can see that up to the late 60's the government is portrayed as doing no wrong. By the 70's the government is usually portrayed as corrupt, incompetent or both. Political thrillers from the 70's would be a good addition to the list of films btw. Should we add both versions of The Manchurian Candidate? |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 27, 2016 23:23:46 GMT
Falling Down (1993, Michael Douglas) is a good film that shows that things haven't changed that much in the last 23 years.
Robocop, the original, is another interesting film, especially when you compare it to the remake - which is not actually that bad a film.
The Batman films are another, and possibly ideal, series of films to watch to follow film making trends since 1989.
The Rock, just to show that Michael Bay is actually capable of making films you don't want to kill him for and that Nicolas Cage isn't always a reason to avoid a film.
Star Trek 2-4, to show you don't always need a massive budget to make good sci-fi.
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