|
|
Post by silverdragon on Jun 9, 2018 8:18:41 GMT
Exactly. 170HP out of 16 liter displacement  I haven't thought about this video in ages. all torque. If people had to spend that much time starting up the family car, I think a lot more people would walk?. And thats a good thing. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Jun 9, 2018 8:22:43 GMT
Tractor towing, is a big thing in UK, Very big, they have to have specialised trailers to move the tractors for a start.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jun 9, 2018 9:18:32 GMT
Tractor towing, is a big thing in UK, Very big, they have to have specialised trailers to move the tractors for a start. and steam tractors still have the torque and traction to drag the smaller size competition tractors around like plows. |
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 9, 2018 20:35:53 GMT
Tractor towing, is a big thing in UK, Very big, they have to have specialised trailers to move the tractors for a start. and steam tractors still have the torque and traction to drag the smaller size competition tractors around like plows. They just have the weight to have traction. That's all. Add the weight to a modern machine (and reinforce it to handle the weight) and it will win! I have seen a challenge on TV where they had invited anything that can drive offroad for a spin on a special track. The only vehicles capable to not get stuck were a MAN 8x8 built in the 1980s which they used to remove the stuck or broken down vehicles, some old Russian UAZ and a German WW-2 prototype 4x4 which was based on the Kübelwagen using a 37HP engine. And yes, there were plenty of Jeeps and Landrovers which all had failled sooner or later. All modern SUVs had failed within the first few meters. |
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 9, 2018 20:45:54 GMT
They say that it won't take long until the wars of the world are fought at computer terminals.
I agree since all countries have stopped developing new vehicles like this:
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jun 9, 2018 22:53:17 GMT
and steam tractors still have the torque and traction to drag the smaller size competition tractors around like plows. They just have the weight to have traction. That's all. Add the weight to a modern machine (and reinforce it to handle the weight) and it will win! I have seen a challenge on TV where they had invited anything that can drive offroad for a spin on a special track. The only vehicles capable to not get stuck were a MAN 8x8 built in the 1980s which they used to remove the stuck or broken down vehicles, some old Russian UAZ and a German WW-2 prototype 4x4 which was based on the Kübelwagen using a 37HP engine. And yes, there were plenty of Jeeps and Landrovers which all had failled sooner or later. All modern SUVs had failed within the first few meters. you have to have wheels that can grip the ground without tearing it loose, too. having your hitch higher than the other guy doesn't hurt either. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Jun 10, 2018 8:50:00 GMT
Tractor towing, is a big thing in UK, Very big, they have to have specialised trailers to move the tractors for a start. and steam tractors still have the torque and traction to drag the smaller size competition tractors around like plows. Dont want to over-egg the thing, but at a country show I was at one time, some large go-anywhere vehicles, the Chelsea tractors you hear about, got stuck in a muddy field, and the steam tractor just ran a line down the field and pulled them out like it wasnt even sweating?. They then had a tow-off to see if a modern tractor that could pull anything rural and had been hyped as "Could pull a house down", tied one to the other, and started the pull, the steam tractor didnt even move an inch. Then the fun began, the heavy wagon low loader used to move the steam tractor around the country came in to take the tractor away... as I said, it was a wet day, lots of mud... guess who got stuck?. The steam tractor ponders over, hitches up to the front, and just slowly and gracefully pulled that articulated vehicle "to the agate", to firmer ground. And we replaced these things with "Better" tractors?. Why? |
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 10, 2018 9:56:02 GMT
And we replaced these things with "Better" tractors?. Why? If you want to pay someone to warm the old things up for hours every morning and servicing them daily and then do everything at 1/10 the pace of a modern tractor just to avoid getting stuck once or twice a year, you can do that. Nobody else would do that. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jun 10, 2018 12:15:40 GMT
It's a case of functionality versus convenience. Why have one when you can have both?
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jun 10, 2018 14:19:08 GMT
and steam tractors still have the torque and traction to drag the smaller size competition tractors around like plows. Dont want to over-egg the thing, but at a country show I was at one time, some large go-anywhere vehicles, the Chelsea tractors you hear about, got stuck in a muddy field, and the steam tractor just ran a line down the field and pulled them out like it wasnt even sweating?. They then had a tow-off to see if a modern tractor that could pull anything rural and had been hyped as "Could pull a house down", tied one to the other, and started the pull, the steam tractor didnt even move an inch. Then the fun began, the heavy wagon low loader used to move the steam tractor around the country came in to take the tractor away... as I said, it was a wet day, lots of mud... guess who got stuck?. The steam tractor ponders over, hitches up to the front, and just slowly and gracefully pulled that articulated vehicle "to the agate", to firmer ground. And we replaced these things with "Better" tractors?. Why? convenience. you can't just turn the key and go on a steamer. |
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jun 10, 2018 18:28:12 GMT
There is also the safety factor. When things go bad for a John Deer, you may end up with a cracked block and a puddle of oil on the ground. When things go south with a steam tractor, half the town may disappear.
|
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 10, 2018 20:54:58 GMT
There is also the safety factor. When things go bad for a John Deer, you may end up with a cracked block and a puddle of oil on the ground. When things go south with a steam tractor, half the town may disappear. Also those things have no real brakes. Once downhill and the reverse power is not enough, the thing is out of control! |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Jun 11, 2018 6:06:13 GMT
And we replaced these things with "Better" tractors?. Why? If you want to pay someone to warm the old things up for hours every morning and servicing them daily and then do everything at 1/10 the pace of a modern tractor just to avoid getting stuck once or twice a year, you can do that. Nobody else would do that. I myself have seen a quick-star gas powered steam engine, up and running in a couple of minutes. If we are to believe modern technology cant fix many of the problems of owning one, like an oil sump and pumped oil lubrication on some parts that need it and better grease on others, and maybe a better road travel gearbox, because if 127mph isnt fast enough for you with the Mallard, then what is?. Modern pneumatic tyres, suspension even, all these things are possible, even disc brakes. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jun 11, 2018 14:38:16 GMT
If you want to pay someone to warm the old things up for hours every morning and servicing them daily and then do everything at 1/10 the pace of a modern tractor just to avoid getting stuck once or twice a year, you can do that. Nobody else would do that. I myself have seen a quick-star gas powered steam engine, up and running in a couple of minutes. If we are to believe modern technology cant fix many of the problems of owning one, like an oil sump and pumped oil lubrication on some parts that need it and better grease on others, and maybe a better road travel gearbox, because if 127mph isnt fast enough for you with the Mallard, then what is?. Modern pneumatic tyres, suspension even, all these things are possible, even disc brakes. I read an essay from an engineer, yesterday and thought about posting it. maybe I should, if I can find it again. www.railway-technical.com/trains/steam-vs-diesel.htmlinterestingly, Wikipedia says when the steam traction engine was introduced, the soil characteristics in Britain made them less feasible to plow with than horses. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_tractorthe bottom line is that an internal combustion engine is lighter, quicker starting, lower maintenance, requires less consumables to be carried, has a more useful torque/horsepower curve, and if you blow the engine, you don't have to pick up the driver with a mop. and if you mire your farming tractor, you can usually pull it out with another tractor.  |
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 11, 2018 17:48:16 GMT
The trouble with the steam engine car is that you need to know how much power and RPM you are going to need in a minute or two in advance. Of course they worked great when fuel was cheap. Just keep burning more than twice as much fuel as you actually need and vent the excess energy to gain an acceptable response time of the throttle.
And of course you could make a lightweight steam tractor with all the modern stuff. But then it won't have the weight of the old steam tractors and would be as "worse" than modern ones.
Even modern heavy construction vehicles have no real brakes. The brake is just for parking only. A brake to use driving would be ridiculously bulky, expensive and would wear down quickly.
The more weight your tractor has, the more traction you can have. I've owned an "iron pig". Those are the kind of tractor which contain much more metal than they "need". While my D15 (15HP) was not really bigger than a ride-on lawnmower, it could pull up to 20 tons. Modern ride on lawnmowers can even be bigger and have at least twice the power, but they can't really pull anything.
Here is a tractor pulling contest for D15 and F1 tractors (The F1 is more modern but basically the same):
You can tell easily which ones are the "iron pigs" and which one are standard, they all use the very same engine.
There is a good reason why those iron pigs are not made any more. When farming, it's not about churning and compressing mud. It's about growing vegetables in carefully prepared loose dirt. It is simply better to have your tractor become stuck once in a while than to keep destroying the field.
|
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 11, 2018 18:11:14 GMT
Imagine you are an engineer in 1967 and you had to make a tractor twice as good. Twice the power, twice the weight and btw AWD as well...
|
|
|
|
Post by GTCGreg on Jun 11, 2018 18:25:57 GMT
Imagine you are an engineer in 1967 and you had to make a tractor twice as good. Twice the power, twice the weight and btw AWD as well... And you had to use existing parts, complete the design and have a working prototype in 8 hours. Sounds like some of the projects I've been hit with lately. |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Jun 14, 2018 12:02:27 GMT
Stem tractors and ploughing, sinking into the field... The tractor didnt go didnt go up and down the field if the surface was soft.. You had two engines either end of the field that long-line towed the multi-row plough up then down the field, moving along as each set was done.  |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jun 14, 2018 14:17:12 GMT
Stem tractors and ploughing, sinking into the field... The tractor didnt go didnt go up and down the field if the surface was soft.. You had two engines either end of the field that long-line towed the multi-row plough up then down the field, moving along as each set was done. which them doubled the number of tractors you needed, and left wide unplowed borders on the field. |
|
|
|
Post by c64 on Jun 16, 2018 19:24:11 GMT
which them doubled the number of tractors you needed, and left wide unplowed borders on the field. And tripled the amount of men you need to pay. Or quadruples the amount of men? What is the guy with the gun for? |
|
