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Post by Lokifan on Sept 14, 2016 16:44:52 GMT
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Post by the light works on Sept 15, 2016 2:20:16 GMT
some would suggest that cooperation is a product of intelligence. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 15, 2016 8:54:12 GMT
I call bogus on the whole premise.
The act of working together in a pack to hunt gather and form a community is a sign of self recognition and family recognition.
That is a sign of intelligence.
I need help with this, hey, there is someone else, I wonder if I can ask them to help...
That is a sign of intelligence, and having to be "Friendly" to get their help is also a sign of understanding basic needs to get assistance.
The whole experiment failed.
Why can I state that?.
Because of selective breeding.
They only took the foxes from the farm that met their own criteria......
"Forced" evolution through selective breeding in that they only took the "Friendlier" ones through to the next stage.
That to me is a fail, if your trying to work out how a evolution system works, especially if you hand pick the next stage of evolution time and time again.
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Post by the light works on Sept 15, 2016 13:54:55 GMT
I call bogus on the whole premise. The act of working together in a pack to hunt gather and form a community is a sign of self recognition and family recognition. That is a sign of intelligence. I need help with this, hey, there is someone else, I wonder if I can ask them to help... That is a sign of intelligence, and having to be "Friendly" to get their help is also a sign of understanding basic needs to get assistance. The whole experiment failed. Why can I state that?. Because of selective breeding. They only took the foxes from the farm that met their own criteria...... "Forced" evolution through selective breeding in that they only took the "Friendlier" ones through to the next stage. That to me is a fail, if your trying to work out how a evolution system works, especially if you hand pick the next stage of evolution time and time again. yes and no on the evolutionary system. if you are trying to figure out if a theoretical evolutionary path works, then you can guide the experiment to that path. it does not demonstrate that evolution favors that path, but it demonstrates the result if it did. the big question is whether the "friendly fox" model results in foxes learning to use tools as humans did. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 16, 2016 6:17:18 GMT
Other animals use tools.
That is a sign of intelligence that we 'Umans 'ave only just understood, 'cos we is dumb like that.
We have always believed that humans possess the "only" intelligence on the planet...
We are wrong in that.
There are other animals just as intelligent as us, but what comes first, intelligence or working in groups?..
Chicken and egg catch 22 situation.
Working in groups expands our knowledge because we learn from another.
But it has been shown in chimps that groups learn from another as well, just one example of animals learning from each other.
"Morphic" knowledge, during the 70's80's there was a spate of Bluetits and great tits in UK who learnt quite quickly that pecking through the foil tops of milk bottles delivered to the door of homes could get them a quick meal.
That happened almost instantaneously all over England, and its yet to be worked out how that spread so quickly.
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Post by the light works on Sept 16, 2016 13:41:41 GMT
Other animals use tools. That is a sign of intelligence that we 'Umans 'ave only just understood, 'cos we is dumb like that. We have always believed that humans possess the "only" intelligence on the planet... We are wrong in that. There are other animals just as intelligent as us, but what comes first, intelligence or working in groups?.. Chicken and egg catch 22 situation. Working in groups expands our knowledge because we learn from another. But it has been shown in chimps that groups learn from another as well, just one example of animals learning from each other. "Morphic" knowledge, during the 70's80's there was a spate of Bluetits and great tits in UK who learnt quite quickly that pecking through the foil tops of milk bottles delivered to the door of homes could get them a quick meal. That happened almost instantaneously all over England, and its yet to be worked out how that spread so quickly. I suspect the same way that primitive cultures all around the world learned to domesticate animals all at around the same time. sometimes people in all different places figure out the same thing around the same time with no other input. |
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Post by silverdragon on Sept 20, 2016 10:54:44 GMT
We have evidence enough from all over the world of co-habiting animals that work with other species.
Human are not the first and not the only to have used other animals to help.
Perhaps the side of us we like to think is "special" is part of whats in the DNA of may intelligent animals who have worked out that a "symbiosis" way of life has benefits for not just them?.
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Post by the light works on Sept 20, 2016 14:33:30 GMT
We have evidence enough from all over the world of co-habiting animals that work with other species. Human are not the first and not the only to have used other animals to help. Perhaps the side of us we like to think is "special" is part of whats in the DNA of may intelligent animals who have worked out that a "symbiosis" way of life has benefits for not just them?. the question would be whether such cohabiting animals have the intellectual capacity to ponder whether their way of life benefits others. the big question that we will always have trouble answering is whether other animals rationalize. |
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