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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 26, 2017 13:48:57 GMT
Yes, this was posted in the right area.
The Bothan has informed me that MB are interested in historical myths. So get thinking.
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Post by ironhold on Jan 26, 2017 18:28:26 GMT
There's the historical myth I posted earlier about the use of dummies in WWI.
According to the show "Weird Warfare", some Allied forces used dummies to bait out snipers. How it would work is that they'd take a bust like what you'd see in a hat-maker shop, give it a spare hat & jacket, touch the face up to look more realistic, give it a lit cigarette, and then poke it up as if it was a foolhardy soldier going too far up to examine the lines. If a sniper took the bait and fired, the soldiers would examine the bullet hole, determine the angle, and call in fire support to suppress the sniper.
The question is -> how realistic would it be for a sniper under WWI battlefield conditions to actually fall for such a trap?
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Post by koshka on Feb 3, 2017 0:22:57 GMT
A quick Google search pulled up this site, which says no man's land could be anywhere from a couple hundred yards wide to a kilometer wide. I suppose the first question is what sort of distance is the sniper looking across. A decoy that can fool a sniper at one kilometer may not be able to fool one at football-field distances.
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Post by the light works on Feb 3, 2017 15:13:29 GMT
the next part of that would be could a bullet hole in a dummy of the type common to that time period show direction of origin accurately enough?
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 6, 2017 9:59:41 GMT
In WW1, or "The great war", there were snipers, this we know. How far away?.. enough to be confused by what is real, otherwise, the dummy would not have been used. And of that dummy, it was "Mobile" by all accounts. It was not just some scarecrow to be plated and forgotten, it was put up in obvious observation points, and moved on a regular basis, to "entice" snipers from the opposing side, where another better disguised observer would look for the tell-tale puff of gunfire to spot the sniper.
Another myth is how unlucky it is to take third light on a cigarette. This stems from the same myth of Snipers. If someone lit a cigarette, it sort of shows up as a glare, first light, spot the enemy, second light, align target, third light "Fire", so it is now considered unlucky to take third light on a cigarette...
Perhaps that can be tested in how long it takes a sniper to observe line up and fire at a target in dim light and indeed of taking third light could be about the timeline average it takes for the sniper to take a pot-shot.
There are plenty of myths from old battle lines that could be put to a test here, almost a whole shows worth.
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Post by the light works on Feb 6, 2017 15:10:29 GMT
In WW1, or "The great war", there were snipers, this we know. How far away?.. enough to be confused by what is real, otherwise, the dummy would not have been used. And of that dummy, it was "Mobile" by all accounts. It was not just some scarecrow to be plated and forgotten, it was put up in obvious observation points, and moved on a regular basis, to "entice" snipers from the opposing side, where another better disguised observer would look for the tell-tale puff of gunfire to spot the sniper. Another myth is how unlucky it is to take third light on a cigarette. This stems from the same myth of Snipers. If someone lit a cigarette, it sort of shows up as a glare, first light, spot the enemy, second light, align target, third light "Fire", so it is now considered unlucky to take third light on a cigarette... Perhaps that can be tested in how long it takes a sniper to observe line up and fire at a target in dim light and indeed of taking third light could be about the timeline average it takes for the sniper to take a pot-shot. There are plenty of myths from old battle lines that could be put to a test here, almost a whole shows worth. I like it; though I have heard it said as third light on a match - which would make it the time for three people to light cigarettes off one match.
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 6, 2017 23:33:48 GMT
According to the book 'Churchills Wizards The British Genuis for Deception 1914 to 1945' the heads used for envoy dummies were supplied by a theatrical costumier called Clarksons. The head was set up on a stick and slide up and down on a grooved board, if hit by a snipers bullet it would be examined by inserting a rod through the entry and exit holes o determine the direction of fire. Or at the same time as the head was pushed up use a periscope . Having said that it was not something that the everyday Tommy did, but were tactics developed and used by expert counter-sniper teams who were specially trained for the task. Later models made by the French included the ability to 'smoke' a cigarette through a rubber tube
In the same book it is stated that the Germans deliberately made their trench look disordered as it made finding their snipers more difficult, with odd coloured sandbags, bit of old iron, tins etc distracting the eye, where as the ordered British trenches made targets stand out far more easily.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 8, 2017 10:32:44 GMT
In WW1, or "The great war", there were snipers, this we know. How far away?.. enough to be confused by what is real, otherwise, the dummy would not have been used. And of that dummy, it was "Mobile" by all accounts. It was not just some scarecrow to be plated and forgotten, it was put up in obvious observation points, and moved on a regular basis, to "entice" snipers from the opposing side, where another better disguised observer would look for the tell-tale puff of gunfire to spot the sniper. Another myth is how unlucky it is to take third light on a cigarette. This stems from the same myth of Snipers. If someone lit a cigarette, it sort of shows up as a glare, first light, spot the enemy, second light, align target, third light "Fire", so it is now considered unlucky to take third light on a cigarette... Perhaps that can be tested in how long it takes a sniper to observe line up and fire at a target in dim light and indeed of taking third light could be about the timeline average it takes for the sniper to take a pot-shot. There are plenty of myths from old battle lines that could be put to a test here, almost a whole shows worth. I like it; though I have heard it said as third light on a match - which would make it the time for three people to light cigarettes off one match. Yes it was, but, being there were Lighters around at that time, the myth spread to lighters as well.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 8, 2017 14:34:04 GMT
Assume the Bothan is aware of myths that have been posted on TC before, and the most needed for those would be to just note what the myth was. The Bothan is quite capable of finding the original thread from that.
Myths; At the beginning of WW2 the British army used a mammoth .50 calibre anti-tank rifle; It was later rechambered for the SMALLER .50 BMG.
According to reports not only was this gun incapable of doing more than denting the side armour of a Panzer*. But proved to be more dangerous to the user than the target, with men shattering their collarbone and/or dislocatijg their shoulder firing it. Even in the best case the user was so badly stunned they had to be dragged out of the firing line before the tank could return fire.
(*Based on the date this was probably the Panzer III, which was unusual in having the side and rear armour the same thickness as the front. This was, off memory, 50mm thick and even a modern .50BMG AP round can only manage 35mm. Although the Soviet Army had notable success with AT rifles, this was during city fighting where they were shooting from elevated positions at the much thinner upper deck armour.)
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Post by the light works on Feb 8, 2017 14:43:29 GMT
Assume the Bothan is aware of myths that have been posted on TC before, and the most needed for those would be to just note what the myth was. The Bothan is quite capable of finding the original thread from that. Myths; At the beginning of WW2 the British army used a mammoth .50 calibre anti-tank rifle; It was later rechambered for the SMALLER .50 BMG. According to reports not only was this gun incapable of doing more than denting the side armour of a Panzer*. But proved to be more dangerous to the user than the target, with men shattering their collarbone and/or dislocatijg their shoulder firing it. Even in the best case the user was so badly stunned they had to be dragged out of the firing line before the tank could return fire. (*Based on the date this was probably the Panzer III, which was unusual in having the side and rear armour the same thickness as the front. This was, off memory, 50mm thick and even a modern .50BMG AP round can only manage 35mm. Although the Soviet Army had notable success with AT rifles, this was during city fighting where they were shooting from elevated positions at the much thinner upper deck armour.) that sounds like it would be challenging to test, due to the potential for injury. of course, in mythbusters terms, it means more work for Buster.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2017 8:35:36 GMT
Or one of his "Disciples"?... [According to the church of buster] Buster Ascended in a cloud of science at the end of the last series, we wont be seeing any more of him than a few chunks... there will have to be a new Buster...
The thing with the large missile "Bouncing off" the armour of the tank. "Some say" that the bang was so loud inside, think standing in Big Ben [or say liberty bell, even with its crack...]when someone rings it?.. that would deafen anyone inside, ear protection or not, for several days?..
Can someone take a hammer of proportionate size and have a clank on a tank shell to see just how loud that is, and if it would cause permanent damage to ears. You would have to put a mic inside to measure how loud, you cant expect anyone to be inside. Even with protection.
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