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Post by Lokifan on Mar 1, 2017 19:36:03 GMT
Since we've got a new show coming up that needs ideas, I can't help but think the show "Scorpion" is a fount of myths.
Just from last night:
Is someone dunked in honey rendered completely germ and pollen free?
Can burning a sterno fuel coated meat locker transform it into a sterile environment?
Can you survive being inside that locker when it happens?
That's just for starters.
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Post by the light works on Mar 2, 2017 5:34:10 GMT
Since we've got a new show coming up that needs ideas, I can't help but think the show "Scorpion" is a fount of myths. Just from last night: Is someone dunked in honey rendered completely germ and pollen free? Can burning a sterno fuel coated meat locker transform it into a sterile environment? Can you survive being inside that locker when it happens? That's just for starters. can a HEPA filter draw 50,000VA? can you work within 10 feet of a power line without getting electrocuted? does a fire engine carry a hazmat suit on their first out fire engines? can you fit an O2 bottle inside a hazmat suit? can you use straight O2 for an SCBA or SCUBA? will a non rebreather oxygen mask work while submerged? (meaning will it keep the water out) hint: the biggest furnace I ever hooked up was a 40 KW furnace.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 3, 2017 0:22:09 GMT
I have not seen the show in the UK yet, so it depends on the oxygen mask type I do not know what the show used, but for what it's worth most medical ones definitely would not work I know as they have outlets in them to vent vomit in case the patient vomits in their sleep or worse if they were in a coma. This could lead to,them choking.
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Post by the light works on Mar 3, 2017 1:35:05 GMT
I have not seen the show in the UK yet, so it depends on the oxygen mask type I do not know what the show used, but for what it's worth most medical ones definitely would not work I know as they have outlets in them to vent vomit in case the patient vomits in their sleep or worse if they were in a coma. This could lead to,them choking. my mistake, it wasn't a non rebreather, it was a simple mask.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 3, 2017 7:16:15 GMT
Nope, but when they are "clean", Honey is a sterile dressing that will keep a wound clean until you get to hospital. ...Or so "Old knowledge" went, subject to being a myth by its self?.
This is an old useful bit of field craft knowledge that many First-Aid people were taught, if you havnt got anything else to keep a wound sterile, slap some honey on a tissue and bind that to the wound, "Its better than nothing" and will keep a wound sterile for a short time until you get to better medical aid. However... and this is the punch, if you have space inside your first aid kid, a "Number two" sterile field dressing is a hell of a lot lighter than a jar of honey. Take two as well, you dont know how big that wound will be?.
Fire sterilises... but unless you can wash that locker out with sterile water afterwards, anything that got "cremated" on the inside is highly cancer forming?.. Its a meat locker, it will conduct heat inside, you need the heat inside to sterilise the inside, being inside is therefore a cremation?..
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 3, 2017 7:25:59 GMT
You can walk along a power line. As long as you do not "ground" yourself, the power has nowhere to flow, other than along that line. There are a breed of repair men who work on live power lines that are flown up by helicopters, they put out a tether to the line to equalise the chopper to the line, then transfer over. So yes, yes you can.. just dont touch the ground or the line at the same time.
This I do not know. Not of all fire departments. I would suspect if its the "Only one", one fire engine within a 50 to 100 square mile area, they might?.. However, I DO know, if I have an emergency whilst under ADR Haz-chem rules, if its a spill, I MUST ask the emergency operator to send a hazmat team, as "Not all" fore departments have Haz-Mat engines in the city, nor do "All" fire tenders carry hazmat suits in uk?..
I have heard this one before, I believe the answer is no, I cant remember why, but its something to do with the rate of breathing going wild if its only 02 you breath?..
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 3, 2017 9:56:11 GMT
I have not seen the show in the UK yet, so it depends on the oxygen mask type I do not know what the show used, but for what it's worth most medical ones definitely would not work I know as they have outlets in them to vent vomit in case the patient vomits in their sleep or worse if they were in a coma. This could lead to,them choking. my mistake, it wasn't a non rebreather, it was a simple mask. In which case those small holes in the side would let in water,. But LTW am I right in thinking you wife uses CPAP look at the construction of her mask compared to that simple one, and how much leakage you get, there is no way the one in the picture would work. I use one of these for example. www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/products/Mask/ultra-mirage-series/user-guide/608337_ultra-mirage-full-face-mask_user-guide_amer_eng.pdf
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Post by WhutScreenName on Mar 3, 2017 13:22:31 GMT
To clarify, the person was in a drum of honey, inside the meat locker when it was 'sterilized'. Meaning there was absolutely SOME protection from the heat. BUT, was it enough?
Secondary, the honey formed a hard top on it when heated, a crust. It's been my experience that heating honey makes it liquid again, not solid?
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 3, 2017 13:39:46 GMT
You can caramelise the surface of honey to form a crust just like sugar on a Creme Brûlée.
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Post by the light works on Mar 3, 2017 15:08:10 GMT
Nope, but when they are "clean", Honey is a sterile dressing that will keep a wound clean until you get to hospital. ...Or so "Old knowledge" went, subject to being a myth by its self?. This is an old useful bit of field craft knowledge that many First-Aid people were taught, if you havnt got anything else to keep a wound sterile, slap some honey on a tissue and bind that to the wound, "Its better than nothing" and will keep a wound sterile for a short time until you get to better medical aid. However... and this is the punch, if you have space inside your first aid kid, a "Number two" sterile field dressing is a hell of a lot lighter than a jar of honey. but you can't spread a sterile field dressing on your toast and eat it.
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Post by the light works on Mar 3, 2017 15:16:56 GMT
You can walk along a power line. As long as you do not "ground" yourself, the power has nowhere to flow, other than along that line. There are a breed of repair men who work on live power lines that are flown up by helicopters, they put out a tether to the line to equalise the chopper to the line, then transfer over. So yes, yes you can.. just dont touch the ground or the line at the same time. since you presumably haven't seen the episode: the victim was inside a single story house. a storm had snapped the top off a power pole, and landed it with a treetop on the roof of the house, shattering the roof structure. they couldn't shut off the power lines, because the inhabitants included an immune deficient girl living in a plastic bubble in the middle of the house, and the HEPA filter needed 50,000 watts to run; and the tree had also destroyed their backup generator. so the team were on stepladders playing inverted pick up sticks with debris tangled in the power lines so the power company could crane the top of the power pole off the roof without turning off the power. you'll note I completely ignored the "can a tree knock down a power pole in a residential area in such a way that the top of the power pole lands on top of the roof of a house" myth, because I'm sure that somewhere in the world, there is a house built underneath an extra tall power pole.
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Post by Lokifan on Mar 3, 2017 15:35:02 GMT
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Post by the light works on Mar 3, 2017 15:44:15 GMT
what they had looked like a hybrid level B suit, which may or may not have been built to wear the SCBA on the outside of the suit. level A suits like you showed are worn over the SCBA and are completely sealed. which means, yes, by the time you finish the task, you are the sta-puf marshmallow man. at least they didn't say oxygen bottle and use an SCBA bottle, which I expected from them. I guess they passed up that ignorance, in favor of having her USING an oxygen bottle for an SCBA.
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Post by Lokifan on Mar 3, 2017 15:55:52 GMT
If I remember right, the sterno supposedly burned at 180 degrees F, hot enough to sterilize but not enough to kill. I don't know if this is true.
She had to stay under the honey for 1 minute, holding her breath, while the sterno burned out. So, for those who didn't see the episode, the sequence was:
1. Smear sterno all around inside of locker.
2. Submerge girl in 50 gallon barrel of honey, while she is breathing via a small bottle of oxygen.
3. Put barrel in locker.
4. Pull bottle from girl, who starts holding breath.
5. Ignite sterno and seal locker.
6. Wait one minute for fire to burn out. Crust forms on top of honey barrel.
7. Start HEPA filtered air system to blow sterile air into locker.
8. Girl stands up, breaking crust, and is safe from germs/pollen.
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Post by Cybermortis on Mar 3, 2017 20:21:59 GMT
Fyi; Honey soaked bandages are used, I think specifically for burn victims, in some hospitals. I recall reading about them undergoing medical trials a few years ago, with the evidence showing they were more effective than more traditional treatments.
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 4, 2017 0:39:22 GMT
I believe the honey used in wound dressing is a special medical grade one, Manuka honey that has been treated to be sterilised. Ordinary table honey has not been treated in the same way and has been shown to contain harmful bacteria. www.woundsresearch.com/content/a-comparison-between-medical-grade-honey-and-table-honeys-relation-antimicrobial-efficacyTo quote the paper on ordinary honey. Having not seen the show as this episode has not been on in the UK yet, it would depend on what type of honey the girl was dunked into medical grade or not. I suppose with her medical situation a supply of medical,grade may have been on hand.
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Post by the light works on Mar 4, 2017 1:22:59 GMT
I believe the honey used in wound dressing is a special medical grade one, Manuka honey that has been treated to be sterilised. Ordinary table honey has not been treated in the same way and has been shown to contain harmful bacteria. www.woundsresearch.com/content/a-comparison-between-medical-grade-honey-and-table-honeys-relation-antimicrobial-efficacyTo quote the paper on ordinary honey.Having not seen the show as this episode has not been on in the UK yet, it would depend on what type of honey the girl was dunked into medical grade or not. I suppose with her medical situation a supply of medical,grade may have been on hand. the honey came from a local beekeeper on short notice.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 4, 2017 9:34:28 GMT
Nope, but when they are "clean", Honey is a sterile dressing that will keep a wound clean until you get to hospital. ...Or so "Old knowledge" went, subject to being a myth by its self?. This is an old useful bit of field craft knowledge that many First-Aid people were taught, if you havnt got anything else to keep a wound sterile, slap some honey on a tissue and bind that to the wound, "Its better than nothing" and will keep a wound sterile for a short time until you get to better medical aid. However... and this is the punch, if you have space inside your first aid kid, a "Number two" sterile field dressing is a hell of a lot lighter than a jar of honey. but you can't spread a sterile field dressing on your toast and eat it. [resist resist, resist...]Too late, I cant resist... Before or After use?..
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 4, 2017 9:43:22 GMT
Question, if the girl has germs on her and inside her from breathing in polluted air, then they are on/in the girl anyway, honey does not sterilise on its own, it just doesnt create a breeding platform for new germs as much as other substances, bit those germs that already exist, already exist.
I therefore suggest that any germs that are on/inside the girl in the first place that survive being dunked in honey, that as we know wont kill those germs, but will just prevent them spreading, those germs have not been killed by the sterno. In truth, they have been protected as much as the girl was by the honey. Therefore, I suggest, that the whole exercise was completely a waste of time, as the germs or whatever she was exposed to, were protected as much as she way by way of insulation from the honey from the flames, and as long as they can survive a short term "Hold your breath" whilst being smothered in Honey, or even those inhaled can survive as long as the human can without air, then nothing effective was done. Even if those germs were inside her mouth.
Am I making sense here?..
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Post by the light works on Mar 4, 2017 11:52:36 GMT
Question, if the girl has germs on her and inside her from breathing in polluted air, then they are on/in the girl anyway, honey does not sterilise on its own, it just doesnt create a breeding platform for new germs as much as other substances, bit those germs that already exist, already exist. I therefore suggest that any germs that are on/inside the girl in the first place that survive being dunked in honey, that as we know wont kill those germs, but will just prevent them spreading, those germs have not been killed by the sterno. In truth, they have been protected as much as the girl was by the honey. Therefore, I suggest, that the whole exercise was completely a waste of time, as the germs or whatever she was exposed to, were protected as much as she way by way of insulation from the honey from the flames, and as long as they can survive a short term "Hold your breath" whilst being smothered in Honey, or even those inhaled can survive as long as the human can without air, then nothing effective was done. Even if those germs were inside her mouth. Am I making sense here?.. well, if we go through the whole sequence of events that got her in the barrel of honey, you would see that we are significantly far from making sense. they autoclaved the oxygen bottle, used a probably fictitious gas to sterilize the suit, then opened a door in the side of her pathogen free enclosure to hand her the suit (which had been carried from the decon chamber, in free air). she developed an allergic reaction to the gas, so they removed her from the suit in free air, and had her climb into the honey. then they transported the barrel to the walk in cooler.
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