|
|
Post by Lokifan on May 24, 2017 17:46:13 GMT
You've seen them in movies all the time, and they're part of the lore of the US.
I'll get it started:
MYTH: A rattlesnake won't slither over a rope if you lay it around your bed at night.
You'd need to determine period rope, at the very least. Would hemp rope be distasteful to a snake, or did they use something else?
MYTH: The Hollywood gunfight.
I know most gunfights were more like driveby shootings are today--ambushes. Hollywood created the formal gunfight for dramatic effect. But how dangerous would a Hollywood gunfight really be? You know, the kind where they pace down the middle of the street, draw, and fire from the hip. Frankly, I doubt it would result in many fatalities, simply because a pistol isn't that accurate at those distances, and shooting from the hip after a speed draw seems unlikely to help.
Anyone think of any others?
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 25, 2017 3:10:48 GMT
You've seen them in movies all the time, and they're part of the lore of the US. I'll get it started: MYTH: A rattlesnake won't slither over a rope if you lay it around your bed at night. You'd need to determine period rope, at the very least. Would hemp rope be distasteful to a snake, or did they use something else? MYTH: The Hollywood gunfight. I know most gunfights were more like driveby shootings are today--ambushes. Hollywood created the formal gunfight for dramatic effect. But how dangerous would a Hollywood gunfight really be? You know, the kind where they pace down the middle of the street, draw, and fire from the hip. Frankly, I doubt it would result in many fatalities, simply because a pistol isn't that accurate at those distances, and shooting from the hip after a speed draw seems unlikely to help. Anyone think of any others? a common trope in western books is having a pebble in your mouth to stimulate saliva if you are thirsty and don't have water available. another one that will be a bit hard to test is that thickets of small trees, such as aspen or poplar, make effective cover in a gunfight, due to the likelihood of hitting a tree. splitting a playing card: this one is kind of a gimme - I know it can be done. the challenge is to have enough of an angle that you can see it but still have it enough in line that the bullet still goes through the full width. one from The Rifleman: in one episode, he got caught without a rifle, but managed to beat the bad guy by wedging a pistol butt into a convenient knothole in a plank to extend it like a stock. I can see this helping stability, but is that enough to overcome the short aiming plane. |
|
|
|
Post by Lokifan on May 25, 2017 4:35:21 GMT
There was one about a rather nasty way of doing away with someone. It involved soaking uncured cowhide in water, then sewing the victim inside the hide and leaving them in the hot sun.
The belief was that the hide would contract as it dried in the desert sun, eventually crushing the victim.
One variation was to just tie soaked leather straps around the victim, or just their neck, thus strangling them slowly.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 25, 2017 4:56:10 GMT
There was one about a rather nasty way of doing away with someone. It involved soaking uncured cowhide in water, then sewing the victim inside the hide and leaving them in the hot sun. The belief was that the hide would contract as it dried in the desert sun, eventually crushing the victim. One variation was to just tie soaked leather straps around the victim, or just their neck, thus strangling them slowly. another variant was to use it to tie them to a cactus. another myth would be the ease of getting hooked by cholla (chaw-ya) cactus. there are also myths about the destructive power of lava rocks in the badlands. - able to wear out boots in a matter of miles. |
|
|
|
Post by Lokifan on May 25, 2017 5:21:23 GMT
For that matter, how much water is in a cactus, and how do you get it out?
Yes, I know--I could check online or go to a survival guide, but I think it would make good TV.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 25, 2017 13:39:19 GMT
For that matter, how much water is in a cactus, and how do you get it out? Yes, I know--I could check online or go to a survival guide, but I think it would make good TV. I think you would have to use a "domestic" cactus for that. I seem to recall something about rangers getting grumpy about people killing wild cacti for water. - and I recall something about some cacti not being edible. a related water in the desert myth is that you can follow bees to water. |
|
|
|
Post by Lokifan on May 25, 2017 14:01:43 GMT
An 18 inch Saguaro costs $75. A full grown one, with arms, can cost thousands on the black market.
A Saguaro doesn't grow its arms until about age 75-100 years.
And yes, it is also a protected species, although you might be able to find one on private property that you could use. But it'd cost.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 25, 2017 14:19:52 GMT
An 18 inch Saguaro costs $75. A full grown one, with arms, can cost thousands on the black market. A Saguaro doesn't grow its arms until about age 75-100 years. And yes, it is also a protected species, although you might be able to find one on private property that you could use. But it'd cost. barrel cactus is the one commonly cited. www.desertmuseum.org/kids/oz/long-fact-sheets/Fishook%20Barrel%20Cactus.phpit sounds like it takes about 10 years to grow a 10 inch diameter one; which should give it a reasonable price. it also mentions that if you eat it on an empty stomach, you may get the squirts - which would mean it is only a short term solution. |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 25, 2017 15:20:50 GMT
They tested rope against snakes.
Period pistols were wildly inaccurate at any kind of range, and the classic high noon type shootout only happened once or twice; And then at ranges of around 10 feet. (I seem to recall one of these rare fights saw four people shot, only one of whom was the intended target. Which gives a very good idea how inaccurate pistols were.) The weapons of choice for those in the Old West were rifles and shotguns, not pistols.
Turns out that the 'Wild' West was in reality...not that Wild. Practically all towns had strict gun control laws (The Gunfight at the OK Corral was actually caused by a refusal to hand over firearms), the murder rate was 1.5 people PER YEAR per town, few of which were actually committed with guns. And in some 40 years and several states there was a massive...14 bank robberies.
|
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on May 25, 2017 16:03:24 GMT
They tested rope against snakes. Period pistols were wildly inaccurate at any kind of range, and the classic high noon type shootout only happened once or twice; And then at ranges of around 10 feet. (I seem to recall one of these rare fights saw four people shot, only one of whom was the intended target. Which gives a very good idea how inaccurate pistols were.) The weapons of choice for those in the Old West were rifles and shotguns, not pistols. Turns out that the 'Wild' West was in reality...not that Wild. Practically all towns had strict gun control laws (The Gunfight at the OK Corral was actually caused by a refusal to hand over firearms), the murder rate was 1.5 people PER YEAR per town, few of which were actually committed with guns. And in some 40 years and several states there was a massive...14 bank robberies. [gah... friggin' Kaspersky... can't link to anything without it going nuts] There's a book out called "33 Questions About American History You're Not Supposed To Ask" by Thomas E. Woods, Jr. One of the questions is about how "wild" the Wild West actually was. Woods comes to the same conclusion about the West being more sedate than advertised, but he claims the wide availability of firearms and the strictly defined private property laws as the reason why. He argues that the ever-present prospect of getting shot for trying to injure someone or steal their property was enough of a disincentive for a lot of would-be criminals to ply their trade elsewhere. His evidence for this includes noting that in one town, there wasn't a single recorded murder until *after* a full-time sheriff was appointed and various gun controls were implemented. |
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 25, 2017 16:34:44 GMT
I'm guessing that he failed to ask one simple question; How big was the town before it warranted a full-time lawman?
In a town with roughly 130 people in it chances are you will know everyone, and as such the chances of conflict - especially when you are living a hard life - become significantly less.
Above 130 people it becomes increasingly more difficult for everyone to know everyone, and lack of personal contact and lack of civil discourse causes problems. (Based on Pirate ships where crews above 120 were very rare and once you got past that number of men they tended to splinter).
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 25, 2017 18:36:07 GMT
*Update*
Ironically Mythbusters are apparently looking at Wild West Myths and asked fans for ideas.
I've started a thread specifically for myths, lets leave this one for general discussion and history on the 'Wild' West.
|
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on May 25, 2017 20:27:16 GMT
I'm guessing that he failed to ask one simple question; How big was the town before it warranted a full-time lawman? In a town with roughly 130 people in it chances are you will know everyone, and as such the chances of conflict - especially when you are living a hard life - become significantly less. Above 130 people it becomes increasingly more difficult for everyone to know everyone, and lack of personal contact and lack of civil discourse causes problems. (Based on Pirate ships where crews above 120 were very rare and once you got past that number of men they tended to splinter). I'll have to dig out my copy, but IIRC it was - for the day - a fairly prominent cow town. |
|
|
|
Post by Lokifan on May 25, 2017 20:36:54 GMT
Violence varied by location.
Places like Los Angeles or Deadwood saw daily murders at their worst times. Not always gunfights, but still murders.
Corruption and violence got so bad that "vigilance committees" formed and often lynched people without trial. San Francisco and San Jose both had these "vigilantes", although most accept they were just implementing mob violence.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 26, 2017 14:26:42 GMT
one of the critical factors is there just weren't as many people in the "wild" west as there are, today.
in 1900, Oregon's population was 413,536. The city of portland, not counting the suburbs, now has close to 600,000.
|
|
|
|
Post by WhutScreenName on May 26, 2017 15:36:13 GMT
Many westerns have a shootout with folks in a cabin vs people outside. One thing that's always interesting to me, is just how easy it is to break the glass out of the window. They simply tap it with either the but of their gun, or even the barrel and it breaks and falls out, ready made shooting hole. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert on types of glass etc... but if they broke that easily all the time, what good was it? Seems even a bird flying into it would break?
|
|
|
|
Post by ironhold on May 26, 2017 23:18:57 GMT
Many westerns have a shootout with folks in a cabin vs people outside. One thing that's always interesting to me, is just how easy it is to break the glass out of the window. They simply tap it with either the but of their gun, or even the barrel and it breaks and falls out, ready made shooting hole. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert on types of glass etc... but if they broke that easily all the time, what good was it? Seems even a bird flying into it would break? 's_Mill_massacre In 1838, members of the Missouri state militia rode into the settlement of Haun's Mill and started blasting away at everyone they could find. A number of the town's men tried to set up a defensive position in the town's blacksmith shop, a log structure. However, the openings between the logs were wide enough that the militia were able to shoot through the gaps. Everyone who was in there died, including three young children who were executed by the militia after having been found to still be alive. Three guesses what minority group was being targeted and why most US history books don't mention it. Given this, there's the prospect that if other structures likewise had such gaps there wouldn't have been a need to burst out any windows. |
|
|
|
Post by wvengineer on May 26, 2017 23:27:46 GMT
How effective is cast iron against bullets? I know it's from the movies, but I'll submit these two.
A Fist Full of Dollars.
The Man with No name uses a plate of cast iron to take several rounds from a Winchester 1892 rifle. These commonly fired .44-40 rounds, a large handgun round. The hero walks away from the fight without out a scratch. The plate also survives with only minor damage.
Back to the Future: Part III
Marty hides the cast iron door from a heating stove to survive taking a round from a Colt Single Action Army. They are commonly chambered in .45 long Colt. Both the door and Marty are fine.
Another aspect is what would it be like to wear a large plate of metal. can you walk around with that much extra weight and walk naturally?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on May 26, 2017 23:50:16 GMT
How effective is cast iron against bullets? I know it's from the movies, but I'll submit these two. A Fist Full of Dollars. The Man with No name uses a plate of cast iron to take several rounds from a Winchester 1892 rifle. These commonly fired .44-40 rounds, a large handgun round. The hero walks away from the fight without out a scratch. The plate also survives with only minor damage. Back to the Future: Part III Marty hides the cast iron door from a heating stove to survive taking a round from a Colt Single Action Army. They are commonly chambered in .45 long Colt. Both the door and Marty are fine. Another aspect is what would it be like to wear a large plate of metal. can you walk around with that much extra weight and walk naturally? The B2TF3 myth was actually a direct reference to the Eastwood film, as well as an in universe joke/reference to the second film. Not only does Marty give his name as 'Clint Eastwood', but A Fist Full of Dollars was shown to be one of the elder Biff's favorite films. In fact we not only see Biff watching that film, but that very scene. It's likely plausible that such a thick piece of iron could stop period rounds, which would have been solid lead and fired at a lower velocity than later rounds. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on May 27, 2017 0:59:53 GMT
How effective is cast iron against bullets? I know it's from the movies, but I'll submit these two. A Fist Full of Dollars. The Man with No name uses a plate of cast iron to take several rounds from a Winchester 1892 rifle. These commonly fired .44-40 rounds, a large handgun round. The hero walks away from the fight without out a scratch. The plate also survives with only minor damage. Back to the Future: Part III Marty hides the cast iron door from a heating stove to survive taking a round from a Colt Single Action Army. They are commonly chambered in .45 long Colt. Both the door and Marty are fine. Another aspect is what would it be like to wear a large plate of metal. can you walk around with that much extra weight and walk naturally? The B2TF3 myth was actually a direct reference to the Eastwood film, as well as an in universe joke/reference to the second film. Not only does Marty give his name as 'Clint Eastwood', but A Fist Full of Dollars was shown to be one of the elder Biff's favorite films. In fact we not only see Biff watching that film, but that very scene. It's likely plausible that such a thick piece of iron could stop period rounds, which would have been solid lead and fired at a lower velocity than later rounds. for a frame of reference, I shot a transmission oil pan with a copper jacketed .45 ACP. it put a hole in the oil pan, but didn't go clear through. |
|
