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Post by rmc on Nov 4, 2012 19:17:59 GMT
Posted by mkcoehoorn on June 1, 2010, from DCI (Discovery Channel International) Mythbusters forums:
A Vietnam Vet told me that his lieutenant was KIA because he showered and put on deodorant and cologne before going on patrol. The enemy soldiers were alerted to the patrols presence because of the Lt's daily ablutions. The Vet went on to say that the could not do anything, even wearing bug repellent, showering regularly, or brushing their teeth, that might cause their scent to be different than that of the Vietnamese so that they would not be ambushed.
How easy/difficult is it to detect the presence of someone just by them brushing their teeth or wearing deodorant? Could Western hygiene routines really put soldiers at risk in countries with lower standards of personal hygiene?
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 22, 2012 9:48:11 GMT
Answer, Yes.
One of my Work-mates was a stickler for Hygiene, you could literally smell him ten paces before you saw him.... "DO", akin to BO, But Deodorant Odour.... he did kind of over-do it a bit.
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Post by Lonewolf on Nov 23, 2012 4:18:58 GMT
I don't use body scents, deodorants or even scented soaps. Because my nose isn't already overwhelmed with those, I can smell the stuff others use from 10' or so when indoors and at a significant distance when I'm downwind, like dozens of yards/meters. I can detect when a tobacco user has been in the restroom within the past 30-60 minutes at work. I can smell a tobacco user at 100 yards upwind from me, even when they aren't actively smoking, and tobacco smoke at 1/4 mile.
A large part of this "ability" is that I live in a rural area and am not constantly exposed to the odors of a town or city.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 23, 2012 7:09:10 GMT
I have the same ability.....
Although not as sharp as some, when I have de-sensitized my nose from the ignorance of town odours and got back to my Countryside self (I was raised in a rural area...) I can smell a whole town from several miles.
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Post by User Unavailable on Nov 27, 2012 5:55:08 GMT
Definitely true.
When we trained with the Royal Thai Marine Corps, they always found our position because they could smell us, early in the training. We sweated "American" food sweat and they could smell our American cigarettes on our clothing.
Then, when we started eating and living off the local food and smoking the local cigarettes, etc., we were more able to blend in with the "local" smells.
We had a lot of Vietnam vets who told us the same thing. The Force Recon guys would get locked up in a compound for at least 2 weeks prior to missions deep in country and eat nothing but Vietnamese food, so they smelled like the locals when they were in the jungle.
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Post by c64 on Dec 5, 2012 17:59:43 GMT
The major problem is that Asians and Caucasians have a slightly different body chemistry. If people are sweating, they seem to reek for other ethnic groups long before the smell becomes noticeable to members of the same group. It's one of the little differences which fans racism!
{Although not intended, this post is racist. Provide clear and reputable evidence to back up this claim, or this post will be deleted. Also don't confuse culture and diet with race - CM}
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Post by c64 on Dec 6, 2012 16:58:22 GMT
The major problem is that Asians and Caucasians have a slightly different body chemistry. If people are sweating, they seem to reek for other ethnic groups long before the smell becomes noticeable to members of the same group. It's one of the little differences which fans racism! {Although not intended, this post is racist. Provide clear and reputable evidence to back up this claim, or this post will be deleted. Also don't confuse culture and diet with race - CM}This is known as "Sexual chemistry" www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200712/scents-and-sensibilityThis is true for all mammals and humans happen to be just mammals after all. Different scents indicate different immune systems. So men and women are attracted by a potential partner of a different scent since this reduces the chance of genetic defects of the offspring and gives the offspring a much greater chance to have a strong immune system. During pregnancy, the female rather hates the scent of her mate seeking protection and shelter of her own family which also protects her more from diseases her husband may carry and is immune to but not the woman and her unborn baby. And this just doesn't stop at who you need to mate best to safe your own species, it also works to make out potential rivals you need to hate to protect your species. Here's a good site I found in a hurry. Links to science articles I had read on this topic won't be good enough since they are not in the English language. Also most are in magazines in my cellar. www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200712/scents-and-sensibility
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 6, 2012 17:24:48 GMT
Thank you for the link, HOWEVER if you read more closely you will notice this in the article on page 2;
In other words race has nothing to do with a persons scent.
What will affect scent is culture and diet. Culture because this indicates what smells are 'acceptable' and to what extent. Diet because it will affect what proteins/chemicals end up in sweat. Anyone of a particular ethnic group who grew up or has been living in another culture for some length of time (and therefore eating what everyone else is) will not smell any different to the native ethnic group in that area.
If American GI's could be 'smelt' by the Viet Cong it was because their culture found body odour less acceptable, and therefore they would use scented soaps to cover those smells. Plus their diet was rather different to the locals.
Please think VERY carefully before saying anything about ethnic groups or race. It is very easy to offend people or come over as being racist - CM
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Post by c64 on Dec 6, 2012 17:58:46 GMT
They can - that doesn't mean "they can't".
Caucasians and Asians - even sharing the same canteen do have a different scent and this was the point in Vietnam. Asians tend to have a lactase deficit which makes their body chemistry a lot different - not just by the food they consume.
Afro-Caribbeans and Afro-Asians are fully compatible in scent. It has nothing to do with the colour of the skin or how they look. Some (only a few combinations of) ethnic groups just smell a lo different to each other and this can have a major subconscious effect. And Vietnam just had happened to be a prime example of "smelling the enemy".
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Post by Lonewolf on Dec 6, 2012 23:54:05 GMT
It's not race, it's culture and diet. This is evidenced by someone fully "immersing" themselves in that culture gaining the "local" scent as SF did in Viet Nam. Even people of the same race and base culture will smell different if eating different foods.
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 7, 2012 16:11:01 GMT
c64; All the research I've done does NOT back up your claims that different ethnic groups inheriently smell differently. Where there is a difference between groups it can be traced down to diet and an individuals lifestyle. With zero evidence backing up the claim I will now have to put on the mod hat and ask you to stop making such claims.
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Post by Domovoi on Dec 10, 2012 13:49:42 GMT
Cyber. If it is all about diet, why is it that the black guys in the various units I served with smelled differently in the field even though we all ate at the chowhall and ate the same MREs? No, I am no talking about bodysprays or anything. Just natural odor.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 15, 2012 12:38:50 GMT
Look up "body odor" on wikipedia. The info provided suggests that genetics, with race being an obvious part of that, does indeed have an effect on body odor. Specifically, it's mentioned that asians have fewer apocrine glands, responsible for producing sweat, than other races. You can't deny that the reduced ability to produce sweat has an impact on body odor. Here's another source that comes to the conclusion that there's a difference in BO by race for the very same reason that the wiki page gives: digitalcommons.mcmaster.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=nexusBTW, I'm having difficulty understanding how pointing out obvious, fact based racial differences without passing any kind of judgement on them can be concidered racist? I know race can be a touchy subject under certain circumstances, but let's not make it out to be under ALL circumstances. There's touchy and then there's hysteria. Let's try to differentiate between the two. After all, we can't run away from the fact that we're different. As long as no one is being deliberately offensive, I can't see the problem.
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Post by c64 on Dec 16, 2012 16:06:55 GMT
They even train dogs and are working on an "electronic nose" to detect genetic defects or medical problems just by sniffing at people. Almost everything has an impact on body odour.
Why shouldn't major genetic differences have any impact?
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 16, 2012 17:17:29 GMT
There are times and places to bring up and mention racism. This topic wasn't one of them. It had no bearing on the discussion at hand.
I am the one who initially brought up C64 comment to CM's attention, but I guess I wasn't clear in my intent.
I've seen way to many discussions derailed, because someone wants to inappropriately throw the racism word into the mix.
That's what I saw, so I brought it CM's attention. I failed to explain myself thoroughly enough and for that I apologize. I have since explained myself to CM and to C64.
I apologize for the disruption to the topic, that I caused.
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Post by armynurseboy on Dec 16, 2012 21:04:59 GMT
They even train dogs and are working on an "electronic nose" to detect genetic defects or medical problems just by sniffing at people. Almost everything has an impact on body odour. Why shouldn't major genetic differences have any impact? They tried that in WW2 with Nisei soldiers (2nd Gen Japanese-Americans). They found the dogs couldn't tell the difference between white soldiers and Nisei....
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Post by c64 on Dec 17, 2012 13:23:16 GMT
The kind of dog matters a lot. E.g. there is only one breed of dogs which can detect epilepsies a minute before it strikes urging their master to brace.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 17, 2012 16:04:57 GMT
The kind of dog matters a lot. E.g. there is only one breed of dogs which can detect epilepsies a minute before it strikes urging their master to brace. Epilepsy and other medical conditions that dogs can smell are not ethnic in origin and so do not apply to this topic.
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Post by Domovoi on Dec 17, 2012 19:25:36 GMT
They even train dogs and are working on an "electronic nose" to detect genetic defects or medical problems just by sniffing at people. Almost everything has an impact on body odour. Why shouldn't major genetic differences have any impact? They tried that in WW2 with Nisei soldiers (2nd Gen Japanese-Americans). They found the dogs couldn't tell the difference between white soldiers and Nisei.... Training has come a long way in the last eighty some years. There have been several instances of dogs not only identifying individuals, but groups of individuals. I reckon that if I can notice the difference then so can dogs.
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 17, 2012 22:55:16 GMT
Since you seem intent on ignoring polite requests the mod hammer comes out.
Thread locked.
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