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Post by ponytail61 on Oct 10, 2014 3:15:00 GMT
You are going to need 2 boards on top because of length. After you get your verticals in place lay one of your 8'x 19.5" top boards on them and push it against the back wall and slide it to the corner. Measure the gap and write it down. Now measure from the point where your top boards are going to break/meet to the inside corner. Transfer that measurement to your board and on the other side of the board measure that same distance plus the gap you measured earlier and connect the marks. That is your angle. Cut that and install. The leftover board can be cut for that one shelf and the angle should be correct if your wall is relatively plumb. Just measure the back wall and transfer that measurement from the short point of the angle and then draw a 90° line across board. Double check by measuring that the long point back to your 90° line matches what you have from wall back to the first vertical support. Basically one angle cut should take care of all your "problem" pieces. On the other side of the closet I probably wouldn't worry about cutting at an angle. If you need to you can double up the supports near the back to catch a square cut board/shelf. If the angle is as shallow as you say I don't think that side will be a problem. EDIT: If the gap is more than an inch or so on that side you can do the same as on the other side, just measure the gap in the back. Save the leftover piece after you cut the angle and use as a pattern for all the shelves on that side. I would seriously look for someone with a table saw that would rip all your boards to 19.5" and the rip the remainder in half to use as cleats/supports. That would give you plenty of 2" stock to use for shelf support. I know here in the States a lot of home improvement stores have a rig to cut sheet goods and will give you one cut on each board for free and additional cuts at a nominal fee. Do any of your stores have anything like that? If you don't know anyone ask the lumber guy at the store if he knows anyone that would do it on the cheap. I would be happy to do it for you but with the plane fare you could probably just hire someone to build the whole thing materials included.  P.S. If you are using screws......PRE-DRILL!!! Also use coarse thread screws. Fine thread screws strip easier and do not hold as well in MDF. MDF specialty screws are basically just coarse thread drywall screws. |
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Post by kharnynb on Oct 10, 2014 4:12:02 GMT
I would seriously consider getting a 5x5 cm piece of wood to run the back of the wall at just under the top shelf for mounting everything at the start.
Then you could also do the top shelf in 2 or even 3 pieces..
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Post by the light works on Oct 10, 2014 5:05:05 GMT
The scribing with a compass trick can be done either for a horizontal surface, or a vertical surface. If you type: "Scribing with a compass" into a search, there are tutorials that explain it better than I can. I'll look into that tomorrow. Thanks for the tip  If you are facing the back wall of your closet, are you saying that the left wall tips out at the top 5 inches? Meaning that the left most board that will be flat against the closet back wall will have a 5 inch gap at the top if the lower left corner of the board is touching the lower corner of the wall, and the right side of the board is plumb vertically? If so, get the right side of your template plumb, and scribe with the compass vertically. No, in my drawing, you're looking down at the closet from the ceiling. Should have been clearer on that. What this means is that if I made a shelf that had only 90 degree angles and a depth of 19,5", then from the front left corner of that shelf and to the wall to the left of it there would be a 5" gap. That's what I need to close. I want the shelf to be flush agains both the back wall and the side wall, which means cutting the shelf at an angle, so it's able to rest on horizontal supports screwed into both walls. Hope it all makes better sense now. It's 1:40 AM here now and I've been up since 6:00 AM, so that's probably why I'm not as clear as I could be another way to describe scribing the angle is to take a piece of flat material - probably cardboard, and place the edge against the back wall, and as tight to the end as you can get it. then draw a line parallel to the end wall on the end of the cardboard. cut away your extra, and then your template should fit the wall perfectly. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 10, 2014 13:27:45 GMT
I really want to thank you guys for all your help! I could've probably found the answers elsewhere, but having them all come from one place just makes everything easier to go back and look at again, if I'm suddenly in any doubt. @ ponytail61: My plan is to divide the top shelf into two boards. The back wall is 335cm long and standard MDF sheets are only 244cm long. I could probably get 335cm long sheets, but I'm guessing that would cost me extra, plus I wouldn't be able to get them inside the house Yes, we do have the option to get the store to cut it for us, but living in Denmark is expensive. Each cut is about $25 (don't ask me why it's that expensive!), so I'm gonna have to keep that to the bare, essential minimum, or it'll become way too expensive. I don't know anyone with a tablesaw, so I'm gonna go with SD's idea of the fence for the jigsaw and hope that works. Fortunately, the standard size of an MDF sheet allows me to make a trial cut without actually losing anything I can't live without. The standard width is 124cm and I need to cut each sheet to two 50cm wide sheets, which leaves me with 24cm left over for cleats/supports. I figure I'll make an 8cm cut first and use that as a fence for the next 8cm cut and see how it works out. That still leaves 8cm to the point where I'm cutting into what's going to be my spacers and shelves, so if it goes wrong, I'll only have lost some of my cleats/supports. Considering that I have five 124 X 244cm sheet's that are each going to leave me with a "scrap" piece of 24 X 244cm, I think I can afford to do some experimenting with a single sheet. I was actually going to ask about what kind of screws to use, but you beat me to it, so thanks for that Also, thanks for the offer to cut the sheets for me, but you're probably right about the price going up a bit. With that kind of money, it would be easier and cheaper to just buy a table saw myself instead @ kharnynb: I'm planning on running supports all the way along the back wall for the top shelf and may even do it along the sides of the spacers for the smaller shelves as well, just to make sure everything is good and sturdy. Cutting the top shelf into three pieces wouldn't be a good idea, though. As I said earlier, the spacers are going to just stand directly on the carpet and won't be fastened to the floor in any way. They'll be fastened to the back wall and the top shelf to keep them in place. Dividing the top shelf into more pieces would compromise the stability and sturdiness, so I'll keep to just the two pieces @ TLW: I don't know if you're just doing a better job at keeping your explanation of how to scribe simpler than everybody else, or if everybody else are describing a different way of doing it altogether, but that I understood. Thanks |
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Post by the light works on Oct 10, 2014 13:36:07 GMT
they were describing processes, while I described the desired result. remember one of my roles with the department is instructor - I have to be able to find a way to make an explanation that my students connect to.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 10, 2014 13:46:50 GMT
they were describing processes, while I described the desired result. remember one of my roles with the department is instructor - I have to be able to find a way to make an explanation that my students connect to. I guess that's why your explanation worked so well for me. We're both instructors and I aim to do the exact same thing with my students |
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Post by the light works on Oct 10, 2014 14:10:09 GMT
they were describing processes, while I described the desired result. remember one of my roles with the department is instructor - I have to be able to find a way to make an explanation that my students connect to. I guess that's why your explanation worked so well for me. We're both instructors and I aim to do the exact same thing with my students its not so much that as that it happened to be the right perspective for you to connect. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 10, 2014 14:17:59 GMT
I guess that's why your explanation worked so well for me. We're both instructors and I aim to do the exact same thing with my students its not so much that as that it happened to be the right perspective for you to connect. Either way, I have a workable plan now, so thanks |
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Post by the light works on Oct 10, 2014 14:43:28 GMT
also, with MDF, it would probably be good to use a full or half sheet for your fence for as many of the long cuts as you can. narrower strips will probably have a degree of flex to them.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 10, 2014 21:01:07 GMT
YAY!!! My project just got a little easier! Found a place willing to make the cuts for 5 bucks a pop and even put 2-3 sheets on top of each other and call that a single cut |
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Post by the light works on Oct 11, 2014 1:16:51 GMT
YAY!!! My project just got a little easier! Found a place willing to make the cuts for 5 bucks a pop and even put 2-3 sheets on top of each other and call that a single cut sweet. |
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Post by ponytail61 on Oct 11, 2014 2:17:09 GMT
YAY!!! My project just got a little easier! Found a place willing to make the cuts for 5 bucks a pop and even put 2-3 sheets on top of each other and call that a single cut That's great. That $25 a cut price you mentioned earlier was just plain gouging in my book. That would keep me out of that store for good, I wouldn't even buy a screw from them. It just seems weird to me that they would want so much for something that would help their customers and keep them coming back. I think the main reason stores here do it is because not everyone has a truck and it's easier for them to get the material home. Makes Do-It-Yourselfers out of people that normally wouldn't. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 12, 2014 9:35:09 GMT
YAY!!! My project just got a little easier! Found a place willing to make the cuts for 5 bucks a pop and even put 2-3 sheets on top of each other and call that a single cut That's great. That $25 a cut price you mentioned earlier was just plain gouging in my book. That would keep me out of that store for good, I wouldn't even buy a screw from them. It just seems weird to me that they would want so much for something that would help their customers and keep them coming back. I think the main reason stores here do it is because not everyone has a truck and it's easier for them to get the material home. Makes Do-It-Yourselfers out of people that normally wouldn't. I don't know what they're thinking, but it sure isn't, "We like having repeat customers"!!! Most stores here do the cuts for customers for the same reason you mentioned. We don't have the same affinity for trucks as you guys have and many people don't even have a trailer hitch on their car, so if you want a lot of people to buy stuff for DIY work at your store, you more or less have to provide that service. Everything is much smaller over here too. Our entire house is only around 1.000 sq ft and that isn't even small compared to some apartments I've lived in, so even people who have a trailer hitch (like me) don't have the room available to work with 6 ft plus sheets of wood at home (also like me). But I'm actually guessing this is why it's so expensive to have the cuts made in most stores. They know people HAVE to have those cuts made, so they feel like they can charge whatever they want. The $20-25 price is the norm for most DIY stores. I was just lucky to find one that didn't charge that much. As the owner told me, "You don't stay in business for 35 years by fleecing your customers." Nice to know there are still people out there who take pride in underlining the "honest" part of the term, "making an honest buck" |
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 12, 2014 9:43:40 GMT
The reason the B&Q store here doesnt do unlimited free cuts is cynical.
You would get the customer who wanted every single cut they need done right there in store......
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 12, 2014 9:54:29 GMT
The reason the B&Q store here doesnt do unlimited free cuts is cynical. You would get the customer who wanted every single cut they need done right there in store...... Oh, I get that it's not free and why! I just don't get why it has to cost $20-25 in most stores. It's a freakin' ridiculous price! |
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 12, 2014 10:14:26 GMT
To discourage people using it.
Stores sell circular saws..........
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Post by ponytail61 on Oct 12, 2014 17:55:22 GMT
The reason the B&Q store here doesnt do unlimited free cuts is cynical. You would get the customer who wanted every single cut they need done right there in store...... Nobody is talking about unlimited free cuts. It seems your B&Q charges about what our Home Depot does. First 4 cuts free and then 50p for each additional cut. Home Depot I believe charges 50¢ That's a lot more reasonable than $25 a cut. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 12, 2014 22:41:11 GMT
Ran into a new problem with my little project today. After clearing everything out of the room, so we could start painting before the closet goes up, I noticed that the back wall seemed to have a little slant. Upon further investigation, it slants inward from the floor and up toward the ceiling, so I'll have to cut the spacers at an angle as well, so they'll stand level on the floor and still be flush against the wall.
After trying to make some measurements to figure out the angle I'll have to cut, I found out the angle isn't even uniform across the entire wall. It shifts from one place to the other, sometimes even shifting from a shallow 92 degree angle to a steeper 95 degree angle on the same straight line from the floor up. Whoever built this house must have been either drunk, high off his ass or in one hell of a hurry, possibly even all of the above at the same time!
The plan I have for solving this problem is pretty simple. I need to put in 4 spacers, all at the same height (180cm/71") from the floor. I'll measure out where I want each of them width-wise on the wall and make a mark on the ceiling corresponding to that spot. From there I'll make a simple pendulum out of a piece of string and a weight (probably a heavy bolt or nut). The string will go from the ceiling to the top of the baseboard and then I'll just move it out from the back wall until it makes a straight line down. Then I'll measure the 180cm/71" from the floor and up and mark that on the string. From there I'll mark each 10cm/4" of the string going down toward the floor. I'll then measure the distance from the back wall to each 10cm/4" mark on the string, write that down and mark each point on the spacer, which should end up giving me a line (however weirdly shaped it may be) that corresponds to the shape of the wall. I'll then cut that shape out with the jigsaw, which should (hopefully) result in each spacer being flush against the wall when I'm done.
I'm really starting to hate this house...
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Post by the light works on Oct 12, 2014 22:50:58 GMT
Ran into a new problem with my little project today. After clearing everything out of the room, so we could start painting before the closet goes up, I noticed that the back wall seemed to have a little slant. Upon further investigation, it slants inward from the floor and up toward the ceiling, so I'll have to cut the spacers at an angle as well, so they'll stand level on the floor and still be flush against the wall. After trying to make some measurements to figure out the angle I'll have to cut, I found out the angle isn't even uniform across the entire wall. It shifts from one place to the other, sometimes even shifting from a shallow 92 degree angle to a steeper 95 degree angle on the same straight line from the floor up. Whoever built this house must have been either drunk, high off his ass or in one hell of a hurry, possibly even all of the above at the same time! The plan I have for solving this problem is pretty simple. I need to put in 4 spacers, all at the same height (180cm/71") from the floor. I'll measure out where I want each of them width-wise on the wall and make a mark on the ceiling corresponding to that spot. From there I'll make a simple pendulum out of a piece of string and a weight (probably a heavy bolt or nut). The string will go from the ceiling to the top of the baseboard and then I'll just move it out from the back wall until it makes a straight line down. Then I'll measure the 180cm/71" from the floor and up and mark that on the string. From there I'll mark each 10cm/4" of the string going down toward the floor. I'll then measure the distance from the back wall to each 10cm/4" mark on the string, write that down and mark each point on the spacer, which should end up giving me a line (however weirdly shaped it may be) that corresponds to the shape of the wall. I'll then cut that shape out with the jigsaw, which should (hopefully) result in each spacer being flush against the wall when I'm done. I'm really starting to hate this house... critical question: is it really emotionally important to you that the back of the cabinet be in contact with the wall at all elevations? |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 12, 2014 22:55:07 GMT
Ran into a new problem with my little project today. After clearing everything out of the room, so we could start painting before the closet goes up, I noticed that the back wall seemed to have a little slant. Upon further investigation, it slants inward from the floor and up toward the ceiling, so I'll have to cut the spacers at an angle as well, so they'll stand level on the floor and still be flush against the wall. After trying to make some measurements to figure out the angle I'll have to cut, I found out the angle isn't even uniform across the entire wall. It shifts from one place to the other, sometimes even shifting from a shallow 92 degree angle to a steeper 95 degree angle on the same straight line from the floor up. Whoever built this house must have been either drunk, high off his ass or in one hell of a hurry, possibly even all of the above at the same time! The plan I have for solving this problem is pretty simple. I need to put in 4 spacers, all at the same height (180cm/71") from the floor. I'll measure out where I want each of them width-wise on the wall and make a mark on the ceiling corresponding to that spot. From there I'll make a simple pendulum out of a piece of string and a weight (probably a heavy bolt or nut). The string will go from the ceiling to the top of the baseboard and then I'll just move it out from the back wall until it makes a straight line down. Then I'll measure the 180cm/71" from the floor and up and mark that on the string. From there I'll mark each 10cm/4" of the string going down toward the floor. I'll then measure the distance from the back wall to each 10cm/4" mark on the string, write that down and mark each point on the spacer, which should end up giving me a line (however weirdly shaped it may be) that corresponds to the shape of the wall. I'll then cut that shape out with the jigsaw, which should (hopefully) result in each spacer being flush against the wall when I'm done. I'm really starting to hate this house... critical question: is it really emotionally important to you that the back of the cabinet be in contact with the wall at all elevations? Depends on how big a gap will be left between the wall and the spacer. If it's too big, like an inch and a half, stuff can get stuck between the spacer and the wall and that's IF the brackets I'm using are even long enough to reach the spacers from the wall in the first place. If they aren't, I can't fasten the closet to the wall like I'm planning and it'll become too unstable to use for anything. Why? What do you have in mind? |
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