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Post by the light works on Oct 12, 2014 23:04:33 GMT
critical question: is it really emotionally important to you that the back of the cabinet be in contact with the wall at all elevations? Depends on how big a gap will be left between the wall and the spacer. If it's too big, like an inch and a half, stuff can get stuck between the spacer and the wall and that's IF the brackets I'm using are even long enough to reach the spacers from the wall in the first place. If they aren't, I can't fasten the closet to the wall like I'm planning and it'll become too unstable to use for anything. Why? What do you have in mind? which is why I recommended assembling it in place with a friction fit. if you have a back on the cabinet, then the gap doesn't matter, and will even help reduce sound transmission. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 12, 2014 23:17:15 GMT
Depends on how big a gap will be left between the wall and the spacer. If it's too big, like an inch and a half, stuff can get stuck between the spacer and the wall and that's IF the brackets I'm using are even long enough to reach the spacers from the wall in the first place. If they aren't, I can't fasten the closet to the wall like I'm planning and it'll become too unstable to use for anything. Why? What do you have in mind? which is why I recommended assembling it in place with a friction fit. if you have a back on the cabinet, then the gap doesn't matter, and will even help reduce sound transmission. It would also cost me an additional $120 in materials for the back alone and I wouldn't be able to build it wall to wall and floor to ceiling, which is what I'm going for. That and it would make the height difference from floor to ceiling stand out even more than it already does, since I'd also have to put a top on it for stability, adding another $40-80 in materials. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea and if it had been a better house (and MY house, instead of a lease), I would have taken you up on it. I'm just not willing to put that amount of money into this crappy house. We're well over the $300 mark already and I'm not prepared to throw another $200 into this. |
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Post by the light works on Oct 13, 2014 0:06:27 GMT
which is why I recommended assembling it in place with a friction fit. if you have a back on the cabinet, then the gap doesn't matter, and will even help reduce sound transmission. It would also cost me an additional $120 in materials for the back alone and I wouldn't be able to build it wall to wall and floor to ceiling, which is what I'm going for. That and it would make the height difference from floor to ceiling stand out even more than it already does, since I'd also have to put a top on it for stability, adding another $40-80 in materials. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea and if it had been a better house (and MY house, instead of a lease), I would have taken you up on it. I'm just not willing to put that amount of money into this crappy house. We're well over the $300 mark already and I'm not prepared to throw another $200 into this. I guess the back and the assembly in place do sort of prohibit each other. rather than measuring with your plumbline, you could also scribe each upright to the wall. if you find your biggest gap, and make yourself a spacer the right size you could do it much more quickly than transferring measurements. just make sure the uprights are set so the front comes out even. but again - if you assemble it in place with a friction fit - then it will support itself, and any anchors will only be for extra insurance. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 13, 2014 0:38:10 GMT
It would also cost me an additional $120 in materials for the back alone and I wouldn't be able to build it wall to wall and floor to ceiling, which is what I'm going for. That and it would make the height difference from floor to ceiling stand out even more than it already does, since I'd also have to put a top on it for stability, adding another $40-80 in materials. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea and if it had been a better house (and MY house, instead of a lease), I would have taken you up on it. I'm just not willing to put that amount of money into this crappy house. We're well over the $300 mark already and I'm not prepared to throw another $200 into this. I guess the back and the assembly in place do sort of prohibit each other. rather than measuring with your plumbline, you could also scribe each upright to the wall. if you find your biggest gap, and make yourself a spacer the right size you could do it much more quickly than transferring measurements. just make sure the uprights are set so the front comes out even. I thought about just screwing a spacer onto the wall, but that was before I made the additional measurements and found out there are angle differences from one place to the other. Measure 70" up the wall in one spot and the angle may be 92 degrees. Measure at the same height 2 feet to the left of it and it may be 94 degrees. Screwing a spacer onto the wall would just transfer that difference a couple of inches out into the room and everything would still become warped. |
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Post by the light works on Oct 13, 2014 1:30:24 GMT
I guess the back and the assembly in place do sort of prohibit each other. rather than measuring with your plumbline, you could also scribe each upright to the wall. if you find your biggest gap, and make yourself a spacer the right size you could do it much more quickly than transferring measurements. just make sure the uprights are set so the front comes out even. I thought about just screwing a spacer onto the wall, but that was before I made the additional measurements and found out there are angle differences from one place to the other. Measure 70" up the wall in one spot and the angle may be 92 degrees. Measure at the same height 2 feet to the left of it and it may be 94 degrees. Screwing a spacer onto the wall would just transfer that difference a couple of inches out into the room and everything would still become warped. you misunderstood - the spacer is for scribing the line. have someone hold the board vertical, on your set mark, then with your pencil on a spacer, trace a line down the back of the upright. this will match the shape and angle of the wall. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 13, 2014 17:30:22 GMT
I thought about just screwing a spacer onto the wall, but that was before I made the additional measurements and found out there are angle differences from one place to the other. Measure 70" up the wall in one spot and the angle may be 92 degrees. Measure at the same height 2 feet to the left of it and it may be 94 degrees. Screwing a spacer onto the wall would just transfer that difference a couple of inches out into the room and everything would still become warped. you misunderstood - the spacer is for scribing the line. have someone hold the board vertical, on your set mark, then with your pencil on a spacer, trace a line down the back of the upright. this will match the shape and angle of the wall. Aaaand I'm an idiot... After our little back and forth session last night, I was pretty sure I had it figured out about 90% of the way and could make the rest up as I went along. I wish I hadn't gone to bed before you explained this, because it's so obvious and simple that it (almost) can't fail. But I didn't get it and this morning I went to the DIY store with my drawings. The guy at the store looked at my drawings, looked back at me and went: "Why don't you just get some shelf support brackets, screw those directly into the wall, mount shelves only and scrap the spacers entirely, so you don't have to worry about them being flush against your weird walls. It'll never be good anyway." I really wish I'd understood your scribing technique the first time round, or at least read it before I left for the store, because at this point I wasn't feeling very confident in my methodology and he convinced me that his way was the way to go. So I got the laminated chipboard instead of the MDF sheets and the shelf mounting brackets instead of my smaller brackets and basically tossed my entire plan out the window. When I got home, I completely changed my mind again. I spent a lot of time on that design! I want this to be the way I envisioned it and not some discount version with friggin' shelf brackets that'll look like crap! I have the biggest case of buyers remorse EVER right now and the fact that I finally get what you're saying about the scribing technique just makes it all the more annoying, beacuse now I'm completely convinced the guy didn't know what he was talking about when he said it would never be good. It CAN be good! I know it can, but I faltered when my plan was challenged by someone who sounded more confident than I felt AND IT BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!Anyway, now it's back to the original plan, except I think the chipboard may not have been a bad idea. It was cheaper than the MDF (about half price) and it came in the right width, which means I didn't have to pay extra to have it cut, so I'm going with that. I am however taking those stupid shelf brackets back tomorrow and getting the brackets I wanted in the first place, so I can get this to look the way I originally intended it to. Thanks for the scribing tip, TLW. I'll let you know how it works out tomorrow, since it's too late in the evening around these parts to do any more sawing today. |
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Post by the light works on Oct 13, 2014 17:49:49 GMT
you misunderstood - the spacer is for scribing the line. have someone hold the board vertical, on your set mark, then with your pencil on a spacer, trace a line down the back of the upright. this will match the shape and angle of the wall. Aaaand I'm an idiot... After our little back and forth session last night, I was pretty sure I had it figured out about 90% of the way and could make the rest up as I went along. I wish I hadn't gone to bed before you explained this, because it's so obvious and simple that it (almost) can't fail. But I didn't get it and this morning I went to the DIY store with my drawings. The guy at the store looked at my drawings, looked back at me and went: "Why don't you just get some shelf support brackets, screw those directly into the wall, mount shelves only and scrap the spacers entirely, so you don't have to worry about them being flush against your weird walls. It'll never be good anyway." I really wish I'd understood your scribing technique the first time round, or at least read it before I left for the store, because at this point I wasn't feeling very confident in my methodology and he convinced me that his way was the way to go. So I got the laminated chipboard instead of the MDF sheets and the shelf mounting brackets instead of my smaller brackets and basically tossed my entire plan out the window. When I got home, I completely changed my mind again. I spent a lot of time on that design! I want this to be the way I envisioned it and not some discount version with friggin' shelf brackets that'll look like crap! I have the biggest case of buyers remorse EVER right now and the fact that I finally get what you're saying about the scribing technique just makes it all the more annoying, beacuse now I'm completely convinced the guy didn't know what he was talking about when he said it would never be good. It CAN be good! I know it can, but I faltered when my plan was challenged by someone who sounded more confident than I felt AND IT BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!Anyway, now it's back to the original plan, except I think the chipboard may not have been a bad idea. It was cheaper than the MDF (about half price) and it came in the right width, which means I didn't have to pay extra to have it cut, so I'm going with that. I am however taking those stupid shelf brackets back tomorrow and getting the brackets I wanted in the first place, so I can get this to look the way I originally intended it to. Thanks for the scribing tip, TLW. I'll let you know how it works out tomorrow, since it's too late in the evening around these parts to do any more sawing today. I've always been skeptical of the implication that a guy who knew how to do things would be working in a hardware store... there was a while that Home depot bragged about having real tradesmen working there - at which point I pointed out that they would be paying fraction of what a good tradesman could earn working in his field. |
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 14, 2014 7:57:26 GMT
I am going to throw a spanner at the works....
Is the thing removable as one?
Reason I ask, you say the house is a rental, so, if you leave, are you leaving it behind?...
Ok, so I have a wardrobe I built that was "Modular", floor to ceiling as you describe, except the bit above head height was a box screwed to the lower case (From inside) to make the upper shelves. Underneath the hanging space was a set of internal draws, again their own modular box underneath the hanging space.
The doors detach, you remove the top box, and the lower wardrobe is easier to move, then the lower set of (three high two wide) draws again is easier to move, to the fact I cut hand holds through the top of that box for carrying it....
It sits in an alcove, the back is cheep hardboard but has angle brackets and extra strengthening triangles on the back of each corner for rigidity, it does have a stabilising screw holding it to the wall.
No the alcove isnt square.
I put on two fascia plates either side of the doors to "Hide the gap", the extra inch or two at the front that was lost was hardly worth getting bothered about, and now the thing can stand free standing if needs be if they move.
If they decide its too high to fit a new property, I can cut the doors, they have my number....
The doors are attached only to the Hanging space box for reasons of I dont know what, but it just seemed logical, plus if it got cut, the hinges can stay as they are.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 14, 2014 9:09:17 GMT
I am going to throw a spanner at the works.... Is the thing removable as one? Reason I ask, you say the house is a rental, so, if you leave, are you leaving it behind?... Ok, so I have a wardrobe I built that was "Modular", floor to ceiling as you describe, except the bit above head height was a box screwed to the lower case (From inside) to make the upper shelves. Underneath the hanging space was a set of internal draws, again their own modular box underneath the hanging space. The doors detach, you remove the top box, and the lower wardrobe is easier to move, then the lower set of (three high two wide) draws again is easier to move, to the fact I cut hand holds through the top of that box for carrying it.... It sits in an alcove, the back is cheep hardboard but has angle brackets and extra strengthening triangles on the back of each corner for rigidity, it does have a stabilising screw holding it to the wall. No the alcove isnt square. I put on two fascia plates either side of the doors to "Hide the gap", the extra inch or two at the front that was lost was hardly worth getting bothered about, and now the thing can stand free standing if needs be if they move. If they decide its too high to fit a new property, I can cut the doors, they have my number.... The doors are attached only to the Hanging space box for reasons of I dont know what, but it just seemed logical, plus if it got cut, the hinges can stay as they are. It's not supposed to be moved. It either stays at the request of my landlord when we move, or it comes down and the wood is either re-used in the new house or scrapped. That's why it needs to be on the cheap and also why I've made it deeper than it really needs to be. That way, if we move to a new home with straight walls, I can cut the weird parts off at a 90 degree angle and still have enough depth to make a usable closet out of it. If I built a cabinet that was just supposed to stand on the floor, as opposed to being fastened to the wall, there'd be a conciderable gap from the back of the closet to the wall of about 2,5" at the top, narrowing as you go down toward the floor. And that's not counting the baseboard of about 1,2". Here are some pics to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:  This is a completely straight board placed against the back wall. See how crooked that wall is? If I'd held the board level to the ground, it would be almost flush with the gap above the baseboard, but there would be a 2,5" gap at the top. And that's only 5' 9" up. There's still almost 12" to the ceiling from there, so the gap further up might get even bigger. Here's another picture I took after I'd scribed my trial spacer to the wall and made the cut:  After making that weird cut, the spacer is as flush against the wall as it's going to be with my skillset, with only small gaps of about 2mm here and there. When it's cut like this and set against the wall, the top is level with the ground. The room is small enough as it is and has a really poor layout. It has no fewer than three doors (bathroom, kitchen, living room) on no more than 120 sq ft total. Even with the living room door blinded off by our bed on one side and our couch on the other, there still isn't a lot of floor space to get from the kitchen to the bathroom. Putting the closet directly on the floor would cost me around 2,5 sq ft in wasted floor space because of the crooked wall. |
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Post by the light works on Oct 14, 2014 14:15:12 GMT
I went out with a girl for a while who had to remove the bedroom door because the bed wouldn't allow it to open.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 14, 2014 20:27:49 GMT
I went out with a girl for a while who had to remove the bedroom door because the bed wouldn't allow it to open. We had the choise of blinding off three doors or having a very limited supply of furniture. I don't know what idiot built this house, but who puts three doors into a 64 sq ft kitchen? Anyway... The project is underway, but it's taking longer than expected. Two days ago, I thought I'd be done by now, but the whole DIY store debacle and the process of learning how to scribe properly to make the spacers fit the wall took a lot of time, but now the spacers are finally done. They're not as pretty as they probably could be, but they fit and besides, those parts will be against the wall, covered by clothes, so no one will ever notice. Had to make an additional two trips to the DIY store today. One to take back those stupid shelf support brackets and replace them with the brackets I originally wanted and then another trip when my jigsaw decided it was time to go to the big tool shed in the sky. That cost me around $70 extra, but I'm still coming in around $60 under budget so far, so unless something goes horribly wrong tomorrow, it's nothing major. The most annoying part of it is that those two trips cost me 2 hours of work time, which would have been more than enough to actually get the spacers and the top shelf mounted on the wall, leaving only the rest of the shelves for tomorrow. I don't think I'll be able to finish it all up tomorrow, since I'm still on the fence about how to mount the shelves. The laminated chipboard might not be that good for making shelf mounts, so I may have to find an alternative. I might end up using a combination of brackets and dowels. Brackets for the middle shelf in each section to give some extra stability to the entire structure and dowels for the rest that I can just slide the shelves onto. I'm also thinking that brackets all the way around - even though it's the slightly more expensive solution - might be the safest and easiest way to go, but we'll see. Either way, cutting those shelves with the jigsaw is going to take up most of my time tomorrow. I really wish I could find a cheap circular saw for that... |
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Post by the light works on Oct 14, 2014 20:35:59 GMT
yeah - jigsaws are terrible for long straight cuts. I'd loan you my table saw, but the postage would be more than just buying one at a used tool place.
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 14, 2014 22:12:24 GMT
yeah - jigsaws are terrible for long straight cuts. I'd loan you my table saw, but the postage would be more than just buying one at a used tool place. Donations are welcome  Actually, SD's idea of using another piece of wood as a guide for the jigsaw works pretty well. I've used pieces of the laminated chipboard today, but it's a little too slippery to stay clamped in place once some pressure is applied to the saw, so I'll try using some thin masonite I've got laying around from the dresser we'll be throwing out in favor of this new closet. It should be easier to hold in place. Failing that, I'll try this: |
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Post by alabastersandman on Nov 16, 2014 4:43:00 GMT
Both great suggestions. There's only one problem. I've just made some measurements... The house is so old that the original builders apparently didn't care much for measurements. There's a height difference from the right end to the left end of the wall of 6cm (2,36") from floor to ceiling. Also, the angles from the back wall to each side wall are nowhere near 90 degrees. They're more like 85 and 95 or maybe even 80 and 100 degrees (I haven't bothered taking precise measurements of that yet). I was kind of expecting that, which is why my idea was to attatch the closet/cabinet directly to the walls, instead of making it a stand alone piece of furniture. I was planning to solve the height thing by making one large shelf on top of the closet/cabinet, attatched directly to each end wall, so it makes a uniform height from that point to the floor. This makes it much easier to have the dividing walls of the closet/cabinet sawed to one set length, instead of having to adjust each one for the height difference. Making a wire-frame box, as kharnynb suggested, would be a great idea, except with my construction skills and the tools I have available (not to mention the space I have to work with), making that to fit the irregular measurements of the back wall would be kind of a tall order and I'd probably end up wasting a lot of money on a botched job in a house that I don't even own. Unless my landlord likes what I've done, I'll probably have to take everything down again when we move, which is why I want this to be as inexpensive as possible, while still making it functional, durable and at least tolerable to look at. So, let's forget the soundproofing for a second, since TLW is probably right that the clothes will do a lot, and let's just focus on the build itself. Any suggestions/advice before I start buying materials? Possibly on a minimum of tools needed? Just for reference, here's a plan with measurents that I've drawn up to make it easier for you to envision what I'm trying to do:  A few notes: - The 30cm / 12" shelf height in the left of the three shelf sections is only written once, since I'm planning on making even spacing for all shelves in all three sections, so there's no need to write it more than once - The 140cm / 55" room on the far left is going to be a broom closet, since we've never had one in this house and the vacuum cleaner is constantly being moved around so we don't trip over it. I'm tired of that and now that I have the opportunity to do it, I want it out of the way! The corner of the broom closet might also get to serve as a place for my gun safe, but I'm not a hundred percent on that yet. The overhead shelf in that room will be for cleaning products, rags and such. - The long overhead shelf will be for storing bags and other large things that won't fit anywhere else. - The large room in the middle will have a clothes rack for jackets, dresses, suits etc. and the space beneath it will be for seasonal shoes and boots that we don't want taking up space in the hall when we don't need them. - Since we've dropped the whole sound proofing thing, I'm planning to just screw the dividers directly onto the wall with angle brackets and place the large shelf on top of them, fastening that to both the dividers and the wall. - I have no intention of putting a "floor" in, so the dividers will just be resting directly on the carpet and everything will be fastened to the walls and held in place by fixed shelves. - There are no plans for drawers either. The few shelves that need to be divided for socks and underwear will have plastic or metal mesh boxes for those things. This makes it easier when we're folding clothes on the bed, since we can just take out the box we need, put in on the bed, put everything in it and place it back in the closet when we're done, instead of walking back and forth between the bed and the closet with a handful of socks every few minutes. - Because of the irregular measurements from floor to ceiling, I'm not putting a top on the closet either. The top will simply be the ceiling, so there will be a height difference from that shelf to the ceiling of those 6cm / 2.36" from one end to the other that I mentioned earlier. - Again, because of the irregular measurements and because the size and layout of the room doesn't allow for it, I'm not planning on installing doors. Instead, I'm going with curtains, sliding on a rail fastened to the ceiling. I haven't settled on a design yet, but since the entire room is white, I'm thinking the curtains should have a dark color to offset the room a little. The only other viable alternative to curtains or regular doors would be sliding doors, but making those to fit with the height difference is just going to be a bigger bother and cost than I want to invest in something that's probably coming down again within the next 5 years anyway. Hope all this gives you a pretty clear picture of what I'm thinking. I think something along the lines of what LW suggested, might even make it a totally free-standing unit (built more like a "bookshelf". It wouldn't need to span the entire height of the wall, just make it so it will fit the shortest part of the wall. You wouldn't necessarily need to use drywall either, you could back the cabinet/shelving with 1/8 to 1/4 plywood and then tack some 1" Styrofoam insulation to that. Would be much lighter for when the time comes to remove it too. |
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Post by alabastersandman on Nov 16, 2014 4:50:10 GMT
Making long cuts with a jigsaw, its always wise to install a "Fence"..... This can be any suitable straight edge that you install to one side of the intended cut by the measure of the distance from the blade to edge of bottom plate, then run the jigsaw along that edge. It is of course wise to clamp the fence down tightly at either end making sure the clamp doesnt foul the jigsaw.... And check the blade is straight every now and again.. in certain hard-woods I have known the jigsaw blade to bend with the grain. Hand saws, Manual saws, always best to keep them well waxed. If you have the ability to get some, Beeswax is always better, but after that, candle wax is just as good. I suppose I am lucky, I have one or two (Or three....) jigsaws, three circular saws, a large chop saw with stand, Chainsaw, alligator, and various other planers electric planers and the like to choose from, plus a couple of belt sanders block sanders orbital sanders and a nasty piece of kit known as a bar-steward rasp... Kind of like a cheese grater on steroids that will make deep indentations just looking at you the wrong way?.... But as always, ... Measure Twice, Cut Once.Beeswax can generally be found at hobby stores like Hobby Lobby or the sort. Had to find a reliable source for the stuff whilst doing pool tables as that is what I used to seal over the slate seams. |
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Post by alabastersandman on Nov 16, 2014 4:55:01 GMT
That's great. That $25 a cut price you mentioned earlier was just plain gouging in my book. That would keep me out of that store for good, I wouldn't even buy a screw from them. It just seems weird to me that they would want so much for something that would help their customers and keep them coming back. I think the main reason stores here do it is because not everyone has a truck and it's easier for them to get the material home. Makes Do-It-Yourselfers out of people that normally wouldn't. I don't know what they're thinking, but it sure isn't, "We like having repeat customers"!!! Most stores here do the cuts for customers for the same reason you mentioned. We don't have the same affinity for trucks as you guys have and many people don't even have a trailer hitch on their car, so if you want a lot of people to buy stuff for DIY work at your store, you more or less have to provide that service. Everything is much smaller over here too. Our entire house is only around 1.000 sq ft and that isn't even small compared to some apartments I've lived in, so even people who have a trailer hitch (like me) don't have the room available to work with 6 ft plus sheets of wood at home (also like me). But I'm actually guessing this is why it's so expensive to have the cuts made in most stores. They know people HAVE to have those cuts made, so they feel like they can charge whatever they want. The $20-25 price is the norm for most DIY stores. I was just lucky to find one that didn't charge that much. As the owner told me, "You don't stay in business for 35 years by fleecing your customers." Nice to know there are still people out there who take pride in underlining the "honest" part of the term, "making an honest buck"  Standard shop rates around my area are #30 per hour, not per cut. |
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Post by OziRiS on Nov 16, 2014 21:45:44 GMT
I think something along the lines of what LW suggested, might even make it a totally free-standing unit (built more like a "bookshelf". It wouldn't need to span the entire height of the wall, just make it so it will fit the shortest part of the wall. You wouldn't necessarily need to use drywall either, you could back the cabinet/shelving with 1/8 to 1/4 plywood and then tack some 1" Styrofoam insulation to that. Would be much lighter for when the time comes to remove it too. Yeah, it's a little late for that now, I'm afraid. All that's missing at this point is the clothes rack and the curtains and it's done I'll give you guys some pictures soon, but I'm kinda busy at the moment, so you'll have to wait a bit. |
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Post by alabastersandman on Nov 17, 2014 1:37:26 GMT
I think something along the lines of what LW suggested, might even make it a totally free-standing unit (built more like a "bookshelf". It wouldn't need to span the entire height of the wall, just make it so it will fit the shortest part of the wall. You wouldn't necessarily need to use drywall either, you could back the cabinet/shelving with 1/8 to 1/4 plywood and then tack some 1" Styrofoam insulation to that. Would be much lighter for when the time comes to remove it too. Yeah, it's a little late for that now, I'm afraid. All that's missing at this point is the clothes rack and the curtains and it's done I'll give you guys some pictures soon, but I'm kinda busy at the moment, so you'll have to wait a bit. Yeah, I have been away for quite some time now. I suspected that might be the case when I was making the post but figured what the hey? Good to hear you got it sorted out. |
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Post by alabastersandman on Sept 19, 2015 5:53:52 GMT
yeah - jigsaws are terrible for long straight cuts. I'd loan you my table saw, but the postage would be more than just buying one at a used tool place. Donations are welcome Actually, SD's idea of using another piece of wood as a guide for the jigsaw works pretty well. I've used pieces of the laminated chipboard today, but it's a little too slippery to stay clamped in place once some pressure is applied to the saw, so I'll try using some thin masonite I've got laying around from the dresser we'll be throwing out in favor of this new closet. It should be easier to hold in place. Failing that, I'll try this: This is certainly one of the better uses for a Jigsaw/Sabre Saw that I have seen, looks like you have quite a lot more control over the cut. Obviously visibility is vastly improved as well. |
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Post by kharnynb on Sept 22, 2015 12:14:43 GMT
made a new roof-part for the terrace, next time i will paint first, then assemble.....  hiding the concrete pillars:  |
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