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Post by rmc on Jun 7, 2023 21:56:47 GMT
How to make a basic electromagnet. Might just work! Simple, simple, simple, cheap, simple. The step by step instructions here say that these AA battery type electromagnetics can get warm. Exactly what I'd want to alert PIR that something is there. The electromotive force can be used to quietly move the heat signature through the PIR frame of view. hilaroad.com/camp/projects/magnet.htmlWindings, turns calculator. www.utmel.com/tools/coil-physical-properties-calculator?id=38Question posted online about the weak performance of a AA battery coil magnet. Apparently the AA doesn't provide much current. In the online post, the following formula was mentioned. Force = ((amps*turns)*(amps*turns)*μ0*A)/(2*g*g) Where A is cross sectional area of the nail (larger diameters make better EMs) g is gap to your filings from the end of the nail μ0 is 4π * (0.0000001) Amps and turns and diameter all make a better magnet. If you double the turns the force is quadrupled. Ditto amps and diameter. electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/106001/electromagnet-question
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Post by rmc on Jun 9, 2023 1:27:32 GMT
So, a motion detecting camera happens to be able to capture 4 or 5 seconds of action leading upto an event that you want recorded and preserved. Trouble is, the triggering event is actually a noise. Problem supposedly solved by using a simple sound-activated toy that will move around in front of the motion detect camera once the toy "hears" the noise. Trouble with that ends up being two fold: one, the 260 type micro DC motor the toy uses is much too loud (while also employing a noisy and messy spinning off-balance wobbling action). And, the bigger problem is that the "motion detect" camera actually only detects warm things moving around using a PIR (Passive InfraRed) sensor. So, pull out the DC motor and figure some way to quietly move an IR emitter using the power that was originally used to run the motor. An electromagnet pulling a IR LED might work. But, a simple wire coil could be treated like a short circuit, since there is chance that the coil has less resistance than the motor. And, there is no documentation on the micro DC motor. So, now calculate the resistance for the motor, and attempt to hand make an electromagnet coil having the same resistance that the micro DC motor had. Apparently more coils means more resistance. Use the ohms setting on the multimeter/voltmeter to test that the coil has appropriate resistance. Ultimately, an arrangement where the electromagnet successfully moves an IR source is desired. If IR is provided by an IR LED, powering that LED must be accounted for. The sound-activated toy currently has two red LED lights it uses for "spooky eyes". Use this circuitry for at least one IR LED. Take care to match voltage, and amperage requirements. And don't forget diodes do have a particular direction in a circuit (positive and negative polarity). As an aside, there is some small chance that the handmade electromagnet could generate enough heat to make its own infrared signature. So that should be determined first. Once its understood what kind of heat generator will work, figuring an "electromagnetic means" to move it across the camera's field of view is next. Pendulum arrangement uses gravity to put it back into its initial position. A "Cavendish" arrangement is much less heavy, but would require a light spring to put it back into the initial position once power ends for a given cycle. Stuff I found online regarding all this: 1. Circuit sees wire coil as a low resistance short: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/185024/power-supply-sees-electromagnet-as-a-short-circuit2. How to determine amperage for an undocumented resident, I mean undocumented dc motor: 3. Calculate resistance using ohm's law: www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Total-Resistance-in-Circuits#:~:text=If%20you%20know%20the%20total4. Voltage determined using a voltmeter across the leads that previously supplied power to the micro DC motor. 5. Torsion bar layout used by Cavendish: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment#The_experiment
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Post by the light works on Jun 9, 2023 2:26:24 GMT
So, a motion detecting camera happens to be able to capture 4 or 5 seconds of action leading upto an event that you want recorded and preserved. Trouble is, the triggering event is actually a noise. Problem supposedly solved by using a simple sound-activated toy that will move around in front of the motion detect camera once the toy "hears" the noise. Trouble with that ends up being two fold: one, the 260 type micro DC motor the toy uses is much too loud (while also employing a noisy and messy spinning off-balance wobbling action). And, the bigger problem is that the "motion detect" camera actually only detects warm things moving around, using a PIR (Passive InfraRed) sensor. So, pull out the DC motor and figure some way to move an IR emitter using the power that was originally used to run the motor. An electromagnet pulling a IR LED might work. But, a simple wire coil could be treated like a short circuit, since there is chance that the coil has less resistance than the motor. So, now calculate the resistance for the motor, and attempt to hand make an electromagnet coil having the same resistance that the micro DC motor has. Apparently more coils means more resistance. Use the ohms setting on the multimeter/voltmeter to test that the coil has appropriate resistance. Then figure an arrangement where the electromagnet successfully moves the IR LED. The sound-activated toy currently has two red LED lights it uses for "spooky eyes". Use this circuitry for at least one IR LED. Take care to match voltage, and amperage requirements. And don't forget diodes do have a particular direction in a circuit (positive and negative polarity). As an aside, there is some small chance that the handmade electromagnet could generate enough heat to make its own infrared signature. So that should be determined first. Once its understood what kind of heat generator will work, figuring an "electromagnetic means" to move it is next. Pendulum arrangement uses gravity to put it back into its initial position. A "Cavendish" arrangement is much less heavy, but would require a light spring to put it back into the initial position once power ends for a given cycle. Stuff I found online regarding all this: 1. Circuit sees wire coil as a low resistance short: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/185024/power-supply-sees-electromagnet-as-a-short-circuit2. How to determine amperage for an undocumented resident, I mean undocumented dc motor: 3. Calculate resistance using ohm's law: www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Total-Resistance-in-Circuits#:~:text=If%20you%20know%20the%20total4. Voltage determined using a voltmeter across the leads that previously supplied power to the micro DC motor. 5. Torsion bar layout used by Cavendish: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment#The_experimentjust to add to the complication, a motor and a coil both add impedance above their resistance when they are powered up. another option would be to see if the toy has a gearbox. if it does, then it is probably the gearbox making the noise. you might be able to use the motor shaft directly to release an infrared LED to swing like a pendulum. it would be a one shot per load system, but that would at least get you a proof of concept test.
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Post by rmc on Jun 9, 2023 2:34:14 GMT
The motor squealing at 5,000 to 10,000 RPMs is about as bad as the gear box. Yes there is a gear box.
No idea how you mean a highly spinning motor axle produces anything like a pendulum. Or "release an LED to act like a pendulum". First, what's that? How does it get reset for the next round? I'm much confused here!
I see a set of wires meant for an LED getting twisted up into the motor axle that way, unless you clearly outline what you mean with that.
The load and impedance part is a new concern, though.
Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by the light works on Jun 9, 2023 2:44:25 GMT
The motor squealing at 5,000 to 10,000 RPMs is about as bad as the gear box. Yes there is a gear box. No idea how you mean a highly spinning motor axle produces anything like a pendulum. Or "release an LED to act like a pendulum". First, what's that? How does it get reset for the next round? I'm much confused here! I see a set of wires meant for an LED getting twisted up into the motor axle that way, unless you clearly outline what you mean with that. The load and impedance part is a new concern, though. Thanks for the heads up. set your LED up so the wires act as the stem of a pendulum. tail a piece of string or thread off it, wind the string up so when the motor runs, it will unwind the string and release the LED to swing on its wires.
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Post by rmc on Jun 9, 2023 2:49:19 GMT
10,000 RPMs for a solid minute as the circuit and motor do creates minced meat of any of that, there's what means to reset it back to top? Unwind then wind once its past a certain point? That would be hard. And, as I say, the motor is too loud.
Furthermore, this is DC not AC...
So, I see no need to discuss or confuse impedance.
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Post by the light works on Jun 9, 2023 3:28:30 GMT
10,000 RPMs for a solid minute as the circuit and motor do creates minced meat of any of that, there's what means to reset it back to top? Unwind then wind once its past a certain point? That would be hard. And, as I say, the motor is too loud. Furthermore, this is DC not AC... So, I see no need to discuss or confuse impedance. what means to reset it? what means to reset it is you have to pick up the end of the string and wind it back on the shaft, because when the motor ran, the string was unwound from the shaft.
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Post by rmc on Jun 9, 2023 8:06:04 GMT
10,000 RPMs for a solid minute as the circuit and motor do creates minced meat of any of that, there's what means to reset it back to top? Unwind then wind once its past a certain point? That would be hard. And, as I say, the motor is too loud. Furthermore, this is DC not AC... So, I see no need to discuss or confuse impedance. what means to reset it? what means to reset it is you have to pick up the end of the string and wind it back on the shaft, because when the motor ran, the string was unwound from the shaft. I'm making something automatic. There are as many as 20 sound events to capture each day, and ReoLink could make video and audio clips of them all, and have them in decent edited form, stored away for me automatically too, if I get this right. So, I'm not rewinding string 20 times. Especially, when I may not realize it needs rewinding in certain instances. There might be some way to make a loop where the IR LED traces out some kind of circular path, one where the plane of the LED remains oriented with the horizon, such that the wires don't wind up. But, rather than doing that... because I don't like the sound of a motor atop the noise event I'm trying to automatically capture... competing with what I'm trying to capture in any case... and because I also think the speed of the motor without "noisy step down gears" is just too fast... I'll use Cavendish's arrangement, but just ever so slightly tilted. So as to incorporate elements of both his layout and that of a pendulum. This way I don't really need a spring like I originally thought regarding Cavendish's. The "torsion bar" in my arrangement (carrying the LED) will have the tendency to drift away from the electromagnet when the power goes off. Something the way that a refrigerator door tends to drift closed on its own because it was hung that way; using gravity to encourage it along. Once power is on, the electromagnet will pull the IR LED uphill until it rests against the magnet. As the LED is drawn up toward the magnet it will trace out a moving heat signal for ReoLink, such that Reolink awakens and makes and stores an edited video/audio clip. A clip that has the moments leading upto the noise, the noise, and the moments after.
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Post by rmc on Jun 10, 2023 1:07:34 GMT
Certain formulae listed online don't give enough detail. Things like "gap" and "area" are discussed without specifying if it's centimeters, meters, etc.
Very hard to plug and chug.
Anyway, I've got two experiments in mind that I hope will shed light on how to get the most power out of what is available on the circuit in the toy.
I want a magnet that will let go once power cuts off. If the coil has an iron center and the coil is arranged to pull on a rare earth magnet, they might draw together nicely (an electromagnet pulling on a rare earth magnet), but they wouldn't likely let go; the iron core continuing to be pulled by the rare earth magnet after power cut off.
So I'm going to attempt to discover which arrangement is better:
A hollow, empty core electromagnetic coil pulling on a rare earth magnet, such that at power down they can separate.
Or,
An iron core electromagnetic coil pulling on a piece of steel, again, so after power is cut they can be separated.
Which arrangement do you guess offers superior pulling capacity, all other things being equal?
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Post by the light works on Jun 10, 2023 4:31:11 GMT
Certain formulae listed online don't give enough detail. Things like "gap" and "area" are discussed without specifying if it's centimeters, meters, etc. Very hard to plug and chug. Anyway, I've got two experiments in mind that I hope will shed light on how to get the most power out of what is available on the circuit in the toy. I want a magnet that will let go once power cuts off. If the coil has an iron center and the coil is arranged to pull on a rare earth magnet, they might draw together nicely (an electromagnet pulling on a rare earth magnet), but they wouldn't likely let go; the iron core continuing to be pulled by the rare earth magnet after power cut off. So I'm going to attempt to discover which arrangement is better: A hollow, empty core electromagnetic coil pulling on a rare earth magnet, such that at power down they can separate. Or, An iron core electromagnetic coil pulling on a piece of steel, again, so after power is cut they can be separated. Which arrangement do you guess offers superior pulling capacity, all other things being equal? way outside my competence.
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Post by rmc on Jun 10, 2023 18:42:36 GMT
More troubles.
My initial test results are in.
At these tiny voltages and amperages, a couple of distinct issues arise.
For one, the operative range such a magnet appears to attract an object is near one to two millimeters. That's hardly a wide arc of movement for an IR LED. Still, any movement might do something. That's a test for future experimenting.
No. The REAL issue is that if you make a coil having an iron interior core, that core apparently quickly becomes a kind of weak permanent magnet, such that it won't release the steel item it's supposed to let go of when the power is off.
And, if you make a coil without the iron interior it is thousands of times weaker than the iron core type when the power is on, such that it basically attracts nothing.
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Post by rmc on Jun 10, 2023 19:57:29 GMT
And, the most recent workaround:
Just use the meager 10 volts, 1 amp to power some sort of switch, such switch staying open for the 25 seconds that the toy circuit provides.
I was meaning to include an AC to DC adapter that would power the toy circuit instead of batteries. So, the AC outlet could also be used to power a more serious electromagnet.
The switch would stay open for 25 seconds and the coil, powered by AC would also stay energized for those 25 seconds.
I see no other option if I want a reasonably silent electromagnetic coil doing the grunt work of moving that IR LED around.
If possible, any other suggestions involving getting that coil to do something useful would be appreciated.
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Post by the light works on Jun 11, 2023 4:37:55 GMT
it just occurred to me that one of the special projects I do is hook up pumped septic systems. our standard policy is not to hang the control boxes on the house, itself, because the pump relays make too much noise.
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Post by rmc on Jun 11, 2023 6:20:04 GMT
it just occurred to me that one of the special projects I do is hook up pumped septic systems. our standard policy is not to hang the control boxes on the house, itself, because the pump relays make too much noise. The problem in my situation is that on a recording, having one of their "Twack" noises immediately followed by the toy making ANY noise at all can be easily interpreted that both noises came from the toy. In fact, even if the toy is totally quiet, the sound happening and then the toy immediately starts moving might also come off like it's all about what the toy is doing, all of it. But, in my opinion, two noises right agaisnt one another is just too problematic. Better that there is a noise (that I'll have to argue is elsewhere in the background) and then the toy is seen immediately moving. The micro DC motor and its gearbox is definitely, DEFINITELY a sound issue, though. Because the toy's wobbling motion noise is close enough to the microphone, and the two sounds are so close together that, on the recording, there is no "Twack" to be heard, even though it's there.
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Post by the light works on Jun 11, 2023 13:19:07 GMT
it just occurred to me that one of the special projects I do is hook up pumped septic systems. our standard policy is not to hang the control boxes on the house, itself, because the pump relays make too much noise. The problem in my situation is that on a recording, having one of their "Twack" noises immediately followed by the toy making ANY noise at all can be easily interpreted that both noises came from the toy. In fact, even if the toy is totally quiet, the sound happening and then the toy immediately starts moving might also come off like it's all about what the toy is doing, all of it. But, in my opinion, two noises right agaisnt one another is just too problematic. Better that there is a noise (that I'll have to argue is elsewhere in the background) and then the toy is seen immediately moving. The micro DC motor and its gearbox is definitely, DEFINITELY a sound issue, though. Because the toy's wobbling motion noise is close enough to the microphone, and the two sounds are so close together that, on the recording, there is no "Twack" to be heard, even though it's there. point being, the sound all the commercial relays I've used make is a "thwack" ice cubes are more of a thwack and freestanding relays are a THWACK but they all go thwack. to the point we mount the control bock on a post not in contact with the house, so it doesn't disturb the residents.
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Post by rmc on Jun 11, 2023 14:50:51 GMT
You mention a keystone, fundamental part of the argument used to defend those who I think are involved: "eh, the building makes noises".
And, I know it does. In my 12 hour long videos that I cull through currently, I occasionally hear those building noises. They are located off to the west edge of the building when the sun beats on that side of the building. Winter, summer, fall, spring, it is there.
And, specifically to what you mention about relays, I know my freezer and refrigerator both have switches that make distinct Pop! sounds. The sunlight noises are "Frumph", the switches are "Pop". This noise, however is "Twack!" All distinct on the recordings.
(More of a Twack rather than Thwack. It's sharp and distinct in the recordings, I think. At least they are all distinct to me at this point. I'm very familiar with them all by now, and where they emanate.)
Anyway -
The problem accepting "building noises" are what's happening to wake me are two fold:
The first half year I lived here, whatever common building noises there are didn't wake me. In fact that period involved incredibly peaceful slumber. So, the sunlight noises and refrigerator switches aren't really anywhere close to the intensity of these "Twack!"s.
Juanita Brown who lived here before me in another condo next to mine called the police so repeatedly about new, unusual thumping sounds that the police remembered her when I spoke to them. She had lived here for many years. Only toward the end of her stay here did she start to report unusual thumps.
The argument for further defense was that Juanita was suffering dementia. So, we should apparently just accept people who suffer dementia cannot describe anything correctly. Everything coming out of the mouth of a dementia patient in regard to describing their surroundings is inaccurate. They are apparently in a constant and perpetual state of error.
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Post by the light works on Jun 11, 2023 22:42:00 GMT
You mention a keystone, fundamental part of the argument used to defend those who I think are involved: "eh, the building makes noises". And, I know it does. In my 12 hour long videos that I cull through currently, I occasionally hear those building noises. They are located off to the west edge of the building when the sun beats on that side of the building. Winter, summer, fall, spring, it is there. And, specifically to what you mention about relays, I know my freezer and refrigerator both have switches that make distinct Pop! sounds. The sunlight noises are "Frumph", the switches are "Pop". This noise, however is "Twack!" All distinct on the recordings. (More of a Twack rather than Thwack. It's sharp and distinct in the recordings, I think. At least they are all distinct to me at this point. I'm very familiar with them all by now, and where they emanate.) Anyway - The problem accepting "building noises" are what's happening to wake me are two fold: The first half year I lived here, whatever common building noises there are didn't wake me. In fact that period involved incredibly peaceful slumber. So, the sunlight noises and refrigerator switches aren't really anywhere close to the intensity of these "Twack!"s. Juanita Brown who lived here before me in another condo next to mine called the police so repeatedly about new, unusual thumping sounds that the police remembered her when I spoke to them. She had lived here for many years. Only toward the end of her stay here did she start to report unusual thumps. The argument for further defense was that Juanita was suffering dementia. So, we should apparently just accept people who suffer dementia cannot describe anything correctly. Everything coming out of the mouth of a dementia patient in regard to describing their surroundings is inaccurate. They are apparently in a constant and perpetual state of error. I was more of the opinion, it would be hard collecting a recording of a thwack, if the machine you use to trigger the recording makes a thwack.
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Post by rmc on Jun 13, 2023 0:19:49 GMT
This technology could be repurposed such that a needle normally used to identify a given electric value could, instead, carry an IR emitter.
Thereby quietly moving a source of heat through the ReoLink camera field of view.
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Post by the light works on Jun 13, 2023 2:12:44 GMT
This technology could be repurposed such that a needle normally used to identify a given electric value could, instead, carry an IR emitter. Thereby quietly moving a source of heat through the ReoLink camera field of view. that would be quieter if it works.
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Post by WhutScreenName on Jun 14, 2023 12:37:59 GMT
Do you have a neighbor that's harassing you with noise that you're trying to catch? I'm just curious on what your motivation behind this is? The way I read the initial post, it seemed more hypothetical, but the drive you have for it, seems personal. I guess I'm just curious?
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