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Post by chriso on Dec 29, 2012 8:48:03 GMT
Quick myth: Is it possible for a person running through a high-pressure water jet to be cut clean in half?
More detail:
This is a evolution of "Killer Cable Snap." I always was convinced that a tensioned cable snapping would be able to completely sever a person, but the episode "Killer cable snap" proved me wrong. This got me thinking: can a high pressure water jet cut a person clean in half? The origin for this idea (if I am remembering right) is among submarine crew, where a leak can spew with enough force to dent steel and kill you no problem. I have been told it can even slice you clean in half. But this, like the killer cable snap, could be an exaggeration.
I am NOT talking about strapping someone to a table and using a water cutting machine on them. Obviously there is probably a machine that could do it. I am talking about, as in killer cable snap, an accident.
For testing, I think that going with the highest pressure you might be reasonably exposed in an accident to would be best, though whether it be through a leak in a sub or an industrial accident I have no idea.
Thoughts?
*edit* Actually, should this go in the discussion about previous myths forum? Not quite sure.
{No, this is a separate myth and one which I think has been brought up before - CM}
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Post by rmc on Dec 29, 2012 16:59:41 GMT
Maybe it knocks them off their feet first in most cases??
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Post by the light works on Dec 29, 2012 17:19:36 GMT
quantify "running" and "clean"
it is undeniable that a high pressure water jet can cut something clean in half - with a waterjet cutter. however, that is a slow precise process.
I doubt a leak would have the correct orifice to duplicate that, particularly at a rapid pace. however, it is possible it could cause an injury that a person might interpret that way.
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Post by srmarti on Dec 29, 2012 20:47:14 GMT
Seems that a sufficiently powerful water jet is plausible. They're used in the food industry. The situation where one could manage to try and run through one is somewhat less plausible.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 2, 2013 10:29:10 GMT
I have seen water jet cutters in action, there is a very small space between the nozzle and the material to be cut, and plenty of safeguards... "Running through" one is plausible if you dismantle half of it, but the table cutters I have seen, not possible "By accident".........
I also believe they have a limited depth of cut.....and are quite slow.... but extremely accurate and give a very clean cut...
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Post by rick4070 on Jan 7, 2013 23:54:07 GMT
Some waterjet cutters, with the addition of abrasives can up to around 10" thick steel.
And, yes, they ARE slow, and there is little room between the nozzle and the work. Water only waterjet cutters are also out there, but they are used for other materials like Plastic, Rubber, Silicone, Cork, and materials like that.
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bioLarzen
Demi-Minion
"I reject your avatars and substitute my own."
Posts: 86
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Post by bioLarzen on Jan 8, 2013 11:48:12 GMT
The origin for this idea (if I am remembering right) is among submarine crew, where a leak can spew with enough force to dent steel and kill you no problem. Happen to have a link to any source on this? bio
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Post by chriso on Jan 8, 2013 20:12:47 GMT
Looked for awhile, but could not find much. Even such documents as damage control procedures were tricky to find. Have not really looked for this sort of document in the past, so it could be that my google-fu is not up to the task.
Thinking on the origin, I think I heard it originally from my dad who heard it from someone in the navy while over at Europe. Would not discount the possibility it could of been a prank on a new recruit. But seen or heard it a few other places that are not coming to mind at the moment
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 27, 2013 20:53:19 GMT
Somewhat related to this, I've heard of industrial preassure washers that were supposedly powerful enough to strip flesh from bone and I've even heard talk of some being able to cut a foot off at the ankle. Specifically, there was talk of the kind used in drydocks to clean the sides of large ships.
I work with a preassure washer every day. The one I work with only goes up to about 2.000 psi and I know for a fact that it can break the skin. I've heard of other units that work at more than double that preassure.
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Post by freegan on Mar 28, 2013 1:41:50 GMT
Somewhat related to this, I've heard of industrial pressure washers that were supposedly powerful enough to strip flesh from bone During the recent horse-meat fiasco there was reference to the use of high pressure water jets for reclamation of meat left on the bone after butchering. As for the myth about slicing a person in half, I would expect that it would more likely act as a needle-less hypodermic, filling the victim's tissues with excessive quantities of water.
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Post by ironhold on Mar 28, 2013 2:49:17 GMT
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Post by c64 on Mar 28, 2013 17:41:10 GMT
Well, cutting food with a "cleanwater jet" is a common application.
The first application for cutting stuff with water was cutting complex shapes for modern diaper. Then water was used for cutting sheetmetal, e.g. the Swiss "Swatch" wristwatches became so popular because they were made highly accurate but inexpensive, the clockwork parts were cut using water.
Nowadays, water is used for all kinds of precise cuts, even hard steel up to several inches thick!
The food industry loves their cleanwater jets since they can cut almost anything food related without squishing it and there are no blades to wear out. Just look at canned fruits how precise they are cut nowadays. About 20 years ago, you had to browse several cans of cut fruits to decorate a perfect looking fruit tart. With the clearwater technology, almost every fruit piece is so precise that you can use them all for decoration. Also in the past, whole cherries were sitting on a cherry tart as decoration and you had to be careful with the stone. Nowadays, they use cut in half ones because that's a good method to make perfect looking stoneless cherries. They look like a whole one stuck in whipped cream.
And if you can cut 5 inches of steel, I have no doubt that you can cut bones and meat of a human. Might even look perfect like they cut canned fruits!
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 17, 2013 8:20:25 GMT
and there are no blades to wear out. ....
Can I just pick up on that?... Part of my Load last week was a set of replacement jets for water cutting........ Apparently the jets DO wear out eventually?....
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Post by c64 on Apr 17, 2013 9:43:51 GMT
and there are no blades to wear out. .... Can I just pick up on that?... Part of my Load last week was a set of replacement jets for water cutting........ Apparently the jets DO wear out eventually?.... The jets do wear out but not as fast as a blade. When a blade is slightly worn, it starts squishing the juice out of fruits and vegetables. A worn jet just makes a wider cut until seriously worn so the quality of the food products remains very high for a very long time. I vaguely remember that a knife cutting pineapples had to be replaced every few hours and if a piece of the blade is missing, they had to dump the whole batch. The clearwater jet will go on for weeks without any service except cleaning the machine daily and there are no dangerous metal bits falling out.
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 19, 2013 7:43:42 GMT
Hmmm... blade "Sharpening", same unit is taken somewhere with, to all extents and purposes, an angle grinder, is used to sharpen it..... Thats almost non-expensive.... Water jets replacement cost is High Value.... Well, the bits I were carrying were marked as "Extreme care high value" on the dots.....
On the same subject, I spent a while doing Newspapers, taking a few tons of them north to Glasgow. Whilst in the print shop, I was introduced to the blade.... the one used to cut the paper. The operator wore a heavy leather apron with a steel ringlet chain-mail undergarment, in case he had to replace the blade... Even a worn blade would cut through the leather quite easily, it WAS that sharp, and leaning over the blade was definitely discouraged at any time, it was that lethal.
I enquired about Changing the blade... most of the replacement time was ensuring that the blade guards were fitted correctly before it could be handled.
Delivering new ones?... specialist handling job, as new blades were "Dangerous freight" , they are heavy, and if the break loose, will cut through many things............
This weekend I am going to do a run to a certain place I know well, that cuts sheet metal with a water jet, I must ask what the cutters are like for wearing out............ I normally do the sheet steel they use.
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Post by c64 on Apr 19, 2013 21:11:19 GMT
Hmmm... blade "Sharpening", same unit is taken somewhere with, to all extents and purposes, an angle grinder, is used to sharpen it..... Thats almost non-expensive.... Water jets replacement cost is High Value.... Well, the bits I were carrying were marked as "Extreme care high value" on the dots..... On the same subject, I spent a while doing Newspapers, taking a few tons of them north to Glasgow. Whilst in the print shop, I was introduced to the blade.... the one used to cut the paper. The operator wore a heavy leather apron with a steel ringlet chain-mail undergarment, in case he had to replace the blade... Even a worn blade would cut through the leather quite easily, it WAS that sharp, and leaning over the blade was definitely discouraged at any time, it was that lethal. I enquired about Changing the blade... most of the replacement time was ensuring that the blade guards were fitted correctly before it could be handled. Delivering new ones?... specialist handling job, as new blades were "Dangerous freight" , they are heavy, and if the break loose, will cut through many things............ This weekend I am going to do a run to a certain place I know well, that cuts sheet metal with a water jet, I must ask what the cutters are like for wearing out............ I normally do the sheet steel they use. You can't cut vegetables with a single blade alone. And making a blade sharp enough to slice vegetables without any significant pressure to it can't be done with an angle grinder. The blade needs to be very thin. Also cleaning a cutting mechanism is time consuming - or would you enjoy bits of food in your meal which had stuck in the mechanism for days growing mould or germs? And switching blades every few hours is a lot more cost and time consuming than using a nozzle which lasts months! And with a water jet, you can cut a lot faster without charring the food than using a blade! In a "meat cutter", they need to add lots of ice to prevent frying the meat before it is ready to be cooked. You can't use a water jet to grind meat - but the same applies to vegetables and other food items. You can process it many time faster which makes the water jet very economic and it improves the quality and hygiene.
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Post by silverdragon on May 1, 2013 8:11:51 GMT
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Post by c64 on May 1, 2013 11:12:43 GMT
Since the Clearwater jet is mostly self-cleaning, you can run bigger batches - or divide in batches of sizes you like. Actually, most canned veggies over here don't have any batch numbers, they have a code from which machine they were processed and a timestamp along with the BBD. So if the BBD says "Mach 27, 2014 12:00:05", it doesn't mean that the can is spoiled 6 seconds after noon on the particular day. The manufacturer needs this timestamp to calculate the exact second when the can was processed. And from their database, they can know how many cans before and after this one might be affected. With only the batch numbers and a serious problem, e.g, with a supplier they need to throw away or recall many batches which might or might not be affected.
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