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Post by wvengineer on Jan 12, 2013 16:01:54 GMT
I am getting to the point where I am hating my current Olympus compact, point-and-shoot camera and I am looking to upgrade.
What would be an good, reasonably priced SLR camera? What lenses should I look into with it?
I have seen a couple articles for these new Hybrid cameras that are a step between SLR and point-and-shoot setups. Has anyone used them? What are your thoughts?
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Post by the light works on Jan 12, 2013 16:15:52 GMT
I personally like the Canon Digital Rebel. AFAIK, the top two manufacturers are still Canon and Nikon; and those are so close that choosing between them is a matter of personal fit and preference. I use my Rebel with an 18-56mm stabilized zoom lens and can take the same pictures I used to take with my film camera with a 17-58 and a 52-210mm zoom.
I haven't used one of the new DSLRs that have video capture capability - but I would go to a full DSLR over an interchangeable lens P&S (AKA PHD = Push Here, Dummy) camera.
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Post by privatepaddy on Jan 13, 2013 4:59:22 GMT
I bought a Cannon 1100D for last years trip to the UK it came with two lenses and I used a 8GB memory card. I managed to take around 8000 photos before having to buy another card lots of experimenting went into those photos. Even managed to get a photo of the "Mary Celeste"  going after Nessy this year ;D It has a large screen for taking photos or a view finder, which is missing now from most point and shoot cameras which if any one has tried to use in bright light conditions is guess point and shoot  . |
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Post by freegan on Jan 13, 2013 10:17:09 GMT
I got a Fuji 'SuperZoom' bridge camera (can't recall the model) when I felt limited by my compact point and shoot.
It was a delight to use and produced admirable results.
It also had the advantage of taking rechargeable AA batteries instead of the over-priced funny shaped things that other manufacturers try to rip you off with.
Eventually I migrated to a Nikon D40x and am now using a Nikon D5100 and find myself locked into a constant cycle of lust for, and acquisition of, the best and most expensive lenses and accessories for my camera body.
A DSLR can become a money-pit but a bridge camera is all it needs to be.
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Post by privatepaddy on Jan 13, 2013 10:43:30 GMT
My daughter the ebay queen sourced a supplier of batteries for my Cannon a larger capacity mAhr was around $15-00 Aus roughly 10 pounds UK money. But I can see how being able to go to any chain store and buying off the shelf would be an advantage.
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Post by the light works on Jan 13, 2013 15:11:53 GMT
in the 6 or 7 years I have owned my two digital cameras, I have spent approximately $0.00 replacing batteries.
my wife DID buy a new charger for the PHD camera which happens to be able to charge from 12VDC; since the original charger seems to have gone walkabout.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 14, 2013 7:51:32 GMT
If you are not familiar with full SLR they are bringing out what they call "Bridge" camera's,,,,
Explanation of what "Bridge" means...
Its half-way between point-and-shoot and FULL SLR, it gives you interchangeable lenses, full sized full utility sensors, the same feel as SLR, but fully automatic settings the same as point-and-shoot...
Full DSLR, I have the Canon 350D, known as "Rebel" in USA, there is now 400, 450, and 500 "D" versions its a good cheep DSLR and the auto does good photographs...
Next stage up is £1,000 + just for the camera body. (1.600 dollars range at todays exchange rates?....)
I can honestly say when I bought it it knew more than I did.
I am still learning................... (but a lot better than I was....)
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Post by freegan on Jan 14, 2013 8:22:25 GMT
If you are not familiar with full SLR they are bringing out what they call "Bridge" camera's,,,, Explanation of what "Bridge" means... Its half-way between point-and-shoot and FULL SLR, it gives you interchangeable lenses, full sized full utility sensors, the same feel as SLR, but fully automatic settings the same as point-and-shoot... I have to take issue with this definition. Bridge cameras have an appearance similar to DSLRs but have a fixed, non-interchangeable, zoom lens. What Silver seems to be describing is some sort of hybrid of Bridge and Compact System Cameras (CSCs). CSCs have the appearance of compact, point and shoot, cameras but with the dubious benefit of accepting interchangeable lenses. As with DSLRs, there are a number of different 'systems' in that the lens for one system will not connect to the camera body of another system, obliging you to purchase that body's manufacturer's lenses at prices they determine. There are some third-party lens and accessory manufacturers producing cheaper high-quality lenses but you have to buy the ones with the connection system for your camera body and not all systems may be catered for. This presents prospective DSLR and CSC buyers with confusing choices and compromises as to which system to adopt based on the type of photography the camera will be used for (landscape, nature, sports, architecture, portrait, etc) and what quality of result is required for the budget available. As I have already stated, bridge cameras are all they need to be. They are also all they will ever be. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 14, 2013 8:44:12 GMT
Lenses, look for an 18-50, or reasonable Macro-to-zoom, then a 200 zoom for starters, 300 and 400 and above zooms require a tripod for beginners, even if you have an IS (Image Stabilisation) setting, because they tend not to get enough light for quick shots untill you take it off automatic....
We have knowledgeable folks here, and in no way am I detracting from what is on offer from our members....
But, For further research purposes, Look into the site "Pixalo" (I am a member there, see if you can guess what the screen name is?...) its a good site for beginners all the way to Expert, and we welcome beginners there as much as experts.
There is also a good section from DabHand and the rest of the "Crew" that gives useful reviews on new products, and we will always be happy to answer any form of technical question.... the silliest ones are the ones you DONT ask, then find you got it wrong, when a simple fix sorts it out.....
I also suggest go and get a grab on camera's from a place that will let you play with them before you buy.....
You NEED to feel comfortable handling the camera and lens.
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 14, 2013 9:07:36 GMT
That may have been the case until recent, but there are now newer, and I agree "Hybrid" is a better term, bridge type camera's with Interchangeable lens systems....
simplified explanation would be they have taken "Bridge" insides and added new outsides?...
They are another step between Point and Shoot to full DSLR.
If you will never use full DSLR functions, some "Bridge" type systems are all you may need?...
Such as my Mum...
She was used to my Dad who was "Professional" with Camera work in the Police... a bit like CSI, he was forensics?... I learnt from him, Mum learnt from him, but Mum was never comfortable with full SLR functionality, so has a compact... its a full function top-range compact, but thats all she wants...
.. I am trying to keep the terminology and geek-speak "Simples" for someone who may not be all that familiar with the steps from point-and-shhot to full DSLR... someone who is used to point and shoot when faced with a Canon D1, D5, etc, may be over-awed with the abilities, and may not understand all the terminology?...
For that reason, I chose to point to a possible half-way system "Bridge", where you are a lot better than pointandshoot but not full manual DSLR.....
Bridge has now /is now becoming a generic term for not-quite-DSLR.... dependant on which forum you read/blogs/product descriptions...
There was nothing in-between at one point, and point-and-shhot photographers were daunted by the Canon 350D "Rebel" and other entry-level DSLR's..?..so sensing a gap in the market, correctly, camera forms have been quick to fill that gap....
You are right to correct me, and discussion on what is and isnt hybrid/bridge/DSLR may benefit all, as its now a grey-ish area... but from the point of view of the reader and until wvengineer conforms he is comfortable with terminology of "advanced" photography, can we all remember to add, as Freegan has, some good descriptions to help people.....
We now have DSLR's so complicated they can do Broadcast quality High Definition Video.
Just where in the whole wide gap in the market do you want to start with photography?....
That is a better question to ask when someone wants a "new" camera.....
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Post by freegan on Jan 14, 2013 10:21:19 GMT
I understand your point, Silver, that the terminology regarding camera types has become confusing but I adhere to the convention that 'Bridge' describes a compact camera that incorporates some of the features of a DSLR, such as the pentaprism viewfinder and choice to use manual controls.
Admittedly, the launch of the Olympus OM-D blurred that distinction for some but as it's a development of the CSC design school I prefer to regard it as still a CSC considering that its sensor is that of the majority of CSCs (ie. Micro Four Thirds).
The mention of sensor size raises another consideration for prospective buyers.
Generally speaking, the larger the sensor the greater control the photographer has over image quality insofar as a smaller sensor requires a smaller lens which imposes a lower limit on the depth of field achievable in the resultant image.
This can be a hindrance in portraiture, for example, where an in-focus background can be quite distracting.
A larger sensor, though, usually dictates the need for bulkier equipment which can be a factor in deciding whether to take the camera with you on an outing.
My current solution to this dilemma is to carry an advanced compact camera (Nikon P7100) for routine outings and use the resulting shots to decide whether a re-shoot with the DSLR (Nikon D5100) and better lenses is demanded, when I kit up and head back out when the weather conditions look advantageous.
This does, of course, mean that often the only images of unexpected one-off events are from the compact, however it does have advanced settings and a useful level of control so the results are quite acceptable.
My advice to prospective camera buyers is to thoroughly research the subject, both online and in person with professionals and dedicated amateurs.
When you have made your provisional choices research again, reading as many reviews of your choices as you can sanely handle and then go to a store to handle your preferences to sees how comfortably they fit in your hands and how easily accessible the controls are for you.
Now check online for the cheapest reliable source of your preference (used or new) and, preferably, buy from a dealer with a no-quibble returns policy.
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Post by the light works on Jan 14, 2013 15:24:47 GMT
one thing to keep in mind - if you are taking pictures to look at on your computer, you don't need 42 megapixels. my pocket camera is 8 megapixels, and I routinely scale down the pictures for sharing, because of the file size.
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Post by wvengineer on Jan 15, 2013 22:44:07 GMT
Sorry, I haven't had time to come back and write up a full reply until now.
The things that make me hate my current Olympus FE-310 (8 MP):
1. Shutter delay. it takes between 1-3 seconds between the time you pres the button and the time it actually takes the picture. That's even with having it pre-focus.
2. Write time. It takes on average 10 seconds to write the the picture to the memory card.
3. Lack of image stabilization. It amazes me how this camera can blur even the most stable setup.
4. Zoom is a joke. It is almost impossible to get a non-blurry picture with amy amount of zoom.
5. Battery life. It runs on AA's, which is nice because i buy those in bulk. But even high quality alkalines are only good for 20-30 pictures before they are dead and it has an annoying habit of locking up with the batteries are low and you take a picture. the only way to get out of it is to take the battery cover off and replace them. The problem is that looses the picture that it was trying to save when it locked up.
6. Night and low level pictures are always blurred. Even using the flash.
Last Friday night, my wife and I got a chance to go to the Skate with the Greats. A charity event hosted by a number of former players of the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey team. Out of the 20 or so pictures that I took, only one was not blurry to some extent. I lost a picture of my wife and me with Jay Caufield to the aforementioned low battery lockup.
I find that when you get a good picture, 8 MP is good for me. I don't think I would want one much above 12MP.
If I do get a DSLR, I would probably plan on taking a digital photography class from one of the local colleges extension services.
I do mostly take pictures of kids and family and nature scenery.
So where should I go form here?
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Post by the light works on Jan 16, 2013 3:28:04 GMT
This was taken from about a quarter to a half mile away, at early twilight, with an 85mm lens on a Canon EOS Rebel XT.
I think it's a 10 MP camera, but it could just be an 8
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Post by the light works on Jan 16, 2013 3:34:51 GMT
this is the full frame that was cropped from - this has been resized, of course.
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Post by privatepaddy on Jan 16, 2013 4:08:25 GMT
 Hopefully this will work. This photo was taken from on top of Maiden Castle about May last year with my Canon 1100D with the telephoto lens. I have not adjusted it in any way. There is very little blurring in the rotors. |
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Post by freegan on Jan 16, 2013 4:27:24 GMT
Sorry, I haven't had time to come back and write up a full reply until now. The things that make me hate my current Olympus FE-310 (8 MP): 1. Shutter delay. it takes between 1-3 seconds between the time you pres the button and the time it actually takes the picture. That's even with having it pre-focus. 2. Write time. It takes on average 10 seconds to write the the picture to the memory card. 3. Lack of image stabilization. It amazes me how this camera can blur even the most stable setup. 4. Zoom is a joke. It is almost impossible to get a non-blurry picture with amy amount of zoom. 5. Battery life. It runs on AA's, which is nice because i buy those in bulk. But even high quality alkalines are only good for 20-30 pictures before they are dead and it has an annoying habit of locking up with the batteries are low and you take a picture. the only way to get out of it is to take the battery cover off and replace them. The problem is that looses the picture that it was trying to save when it locked up. 6. Night and low level pictures are always blurred. Even using the flash. Last Friday night, my wife and I got a chance to go to the Skate with the Greats. A charity event hosted by a number of former players of the Pittsburgh Penguins hockey team. Out of the 20 or so pictures that I took, only one was not blurry to some extent. I lost a picture of my wife and me with Jay Caufield to the aforementioned low battery lockup. I find that when you get a good picture, 8 MP is good for me. I don't think I would want one much above 12MP. If I do get a DSLR, I would probably plan on taking a digital photography class from one of the local colleges extension services. I do mostly take pictures of kids and family and nature scenery. So where should I go form here? Issues 3, 4 and 6 seem to have a common cause, namely slow/non-existent auto-focus, especially in low-light conditions. Consequently, I have deleted my previous post recommending a model that also suffered from this to some extent. Instead, I suggest that you consider an 'Enthusiast' Compact. At the risk of sending you into a coma, I recommend you read this comparison of the current models. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 16, 2013 5:50:42 GMT
well,if you want to be challenging...
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Post by privatepaddy on Jan 16, 2013 6:11:08 GMT
Not trying to be challenging  just giving a demonstration of that particular model, hand held point focus (auto) shoot, very little blurring. The photo is not touched up in any way, actually I had forgotten that I had taken it and was looking for some photos of birds in flight. My daughter has an older model the lenses are interchangeable with mine. You can upgrade to a newer body and keep the same lenses, while I am not familiar with the canon you use it may be the lenses are interchangeable. wvengineer may not like the camera it might be too bulky, may not suit his needs and that's up to him. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 16, 2013 6:22:29 GMT
Canon has had two mounts in their history. the first was a full manual mount, the second allowed automatic exposure. the current is the autofocus mount, which is common to their DSLR cameras.
the only tweak I did on the flag picture was to turn off the flash. - it has been scaled down to fit the screen.
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going after Nessy this year ;D
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just giving a demonstration of that particular model, hand held point focus (auto) shoot, very little blurring. The photo is not touched up in any way, actually I had forgotten that I had taken it and was looking for some photos of birds in flight.