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Post by breesfan on Jun 5, 2013 1:27:05 GMT
When you use the restroom in restaurants, you see the message to employees to wash their hands for 20 seconds with soap and water.
Does it really matter if they wash it for 5 seconds or 10 seconds? Do you still kill germs if you wash for for 5 or 10 or even no longer than 20 seconds?
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Post by the light works on Jun 5, 2013 13:28:33 GMT
this might pair up well with my soap vs sanitizer topic. I think it is less a question of time of exposure as it is a question of thoroughness of exposure. you could sit for two minutes rubbing the palms of your hands together and not get them thoroughly clean - but if you only spend 5 seconds, it it much more likely you will not scrub every surface.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jun 5, 2013 14:03:26 GMT
Funny, but my first thought on reading the title was hand-washing clothing, and if it is really 'worse' than using a washing machine.
Seems easy enough to test to me, and I guess that getting information about handwashing would be straightforward.
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Post by the light works on Jun 5, 2013 14:14:34 GMT
Funny, but my first thought on reading the title was hand-washing clothing, and if it is really 'worse' than using a washing machine. Seems easy enough to test to me, and I guess that getting information about handwashing would be straightforward. quick - start a topic thread. |
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Post by breesfan on Jun 6, 2013 1:56:54 GMT
Funny, but my first thought on reading the title was hand-washing clothing, and if it is really 'worse' than using a washing machine. Seems easy enough to test to me, and I guess that getting information about handwashing would be straightforward. You know it's funny, I thought, maybe I should put this in the 'soap v. sanitizer' thread. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 14, 2013 7:35:33 GMT
In 20 seconds, you will wash your hand properly.
If its not a timed amount, many people will do a "Just enough" quick rinse....
Will that get the back of the hands and wrists?....
I say the sign is valid.... its a "Wash your hands" with a extra "PROPERLY...."..?...
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 15, 2013 0:56:43 GMT
You can go ahead and wash your hands for 20 minutes if it makes you feel good, but if all you're doing is rubbing your palms together and not getting the back of the hands, the wrists and in between the fingers properly, you're no better off than if you'd washed them for 5 seconds.
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Post by the light works on Jul 5, 2013 18:03:34 GMT
I have seen signs that not only tell you how long it should take, but what motions should be used to ensure thorough cleansing.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 7, 2013 19:36:01 GMT
New thing I've learned: Until recently I was employed at a company that washed tank trucks and trailers. Needless to say these people know a thing or two about how soap works and it would seem that most of us have got it wrong. Most of us go about washing pretty much anything - including our hands and the rest of our bodies - by splashing water onto whatever needs washing and then following up with soap. Wrong way around! To get the best result, you need to apply the soap first, let it sit for a while depending on the type of surface, dirt and soap in question and then rinse it off with water. If the soap is too thick to apply in that manner without using half a gallon of it, you need to water it down before applying it. The logic behind this is that if you pour water on the dirt before applying the soap, the water sits there in a thin layer between the dirt and the soap, effectively keeping the soap from ever really getting to the dirt. Some of it might get through, but you get a much better result if the water is only used to rinse the soap/dirt combo off after the chemical properties of the soap have had the chance to do their stuff. I've tried this on a number of things and it seems to hold true. I'm actually starting to conserve quite a bit of water because of it. I've started watering down most of my soaps to the point that they're fluid enoug to apply without splashing water on everything first and then only turning on the shower/faucet/garden hose to rinse it off once it's had a chance to do its stuff. You'll be surprised to find out how dirty you actually are, even though you take regular showers/baths. It's pretty nasty... Just goes to show that even the worst job you can imagine could potentially teach you something useful  |
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Post by the light works on Jul 7, 2013 20:52:16 GMT
New thing I've learned: Until recently I was employed at a company that washed tank trucks and trailers. Needless to say these people know a thing or two about how soap works and it would seem that most of us have got it wrong. Most of us go about washing pretty much anything - including our hands and the rest of our bodies - by splashing water onto whatever needs washing and then following up with soap. Wrong way around! To get the best result, you need to apply the soap first, let it sit for a while depending on the type of surface, dirt and soap in question and then rinse it off with water. If the soap is too thick to apply in that manner without using half a gallon of it, you need to water it down before applying it. The logic behind this is that if you pour water on the dirt before applying the soap, the water sits there in a thin layer between the dirt and the soap, effectively keeping the soap from ever really getting to the dirt. Some of it might get through, but you get a much better result if the water is only used to rinse the soap/dirt combo off after the chemical properties of the soap have had the chance to do their stuff. I've tried this on a number of things and it seems to hold true. I'm actually starting to conserve quite a bit of water because of it. I've started watering down most of my soaps to the point that they're fluid enoug to apply without splashing water on everything first and then only turning on the shower/faucet/garden hose to rinse it off once it's had a chance to do its stuff. You'll be surprised to find out how dirty you actually are, even though you take regular showers/baths. It's pretty nasty... Just goes to show that even the worst job you can imagine could potentially teach you something useful it depends on how the soap is applied, and what kind of soiling you are dealing with. take a rag and wipe soap on someone's brand new luxury car, and you will be paying to buff out the scratches from the dirt that would otherwise have been flushed off with the water. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 8, 2013 16:24:13 GMT
Agreed. In that case I'd spray the soap/chemical on to prevent scratching. That's what I did every day when my job was washing trucks and trailers.
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Post by the light works on Jul 9, 2013 0:21:55 GMT
Agreed. In that case I'd spray the soap/chemical on to prevent scratching. That's what I did every day when my job was washing trucks and trailers. it's what our brushless car wash does, too. and what people don't realize is that our prewash solvents are strong enough they were eroding the stainless steel metering orifices. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 9, 2013 8:16:19 GMT
My experience, I have to wash my own truck, and as Agency driver, its always polite to hand back a truck in the same condition you got it in if it was presented to you as squeaky clean....
1st, wash over with just a low pressure water jet to rinse of any loose dirt... we do that to stop loose dirt being an abrasive during the soap part?... taking off surface dirt that will move without detergent is always preferred....
Then lather up with a soap that contains high quantity of ITFR, Industrial Traffic Film Remover.... this stuff will fade some paints if left on too long... I know this from a paint form I supply to who use the trick to fade in paint to the right shade if they cant get exactly the same shade as what is on the vehicle?...
Anyway, its a good wash agent, give it a few mins to work, then rinse off with a high-pressure jet....
If it aint clean by now, it aint worth the worry....
Due diligence, I washed the vehicle, I aint expected to spit-polish it to Number One dress uniform boots parade ground shine as well am I?...
By the way, a "WTF" moment from a green-horn HGV drive, shut down the Truck wash at Pop 2000 truck stop ner me recently... he put through a "Solo" truck (No trailer) without putting a cover on the fifth wheel (The trailer hitch part..)....
And the grease from the surface was all over the brushes.....
Not only will he have to pay to get the truck was cleaned, he will have to spend half-hour re-greasing the 5th wheel again....
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 10, 2013 17:53:48 GMT
I had the same problem with that grease being everywhere every time our Polish drivers had been in there by themselves during my break. They'd take the pressure cleaner and for some damn reason spray that black gunk up and down the walls, leaving me to clean it off. It got to the point where I just didn't bother anymore and told my supervisor that if he wanted the walls and floor cleaned, he could round up all the Polish drivers in the company and get them to do it.
About the water and soap thing. You said: "taking off surface dirt that will move without detergent is always preferred...."
That's the conventional wisdom, yes. That's also what I started doing when I was first hired, but I was told pretty soon after that I was wasting my time. Splash the soap on first, leave on for 5-10 minutes and then hose the sucker down. I was skeptical too, but it didn't take me long to realize that all that hosing to begin with actually made the job harder.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 11, 2013 8:03:54 GMT
Its not a hard spray scrub, its just a gentle splash to remove the dust and loose stuff?.... thats why you use the low pressure hose?...
It also helps dilute the detergent a little.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 11, 2013 19:48:12 GMT
I think we're misunderstanding each other at some point here SD...
In my case I had a huge drum in the truck wash where I would mix about 200 litres of ready-to-use solution at a time. Then I'd fill a 10 litre sprayer (the type you pump full of air by hand and use to spray weed killer in your garden) and just spray the solution directly on the truck in a thin layer, let it sit for 10 minutes and then wash it all off with the pressure cleaner.
I'm starting to get the sense that you're talking about an old fashioned manual wash with brooms and buckets and a garden hose?
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Post by the light works on Jul 12, 2013 2:04:32 GMT
actually, I think SD is talking about trucks that are dirtier than the ones you are talking about.
thoughts are coming to my mind of the son of a girl I went out with who went out to clean a muddy patio door with a bottle of windex and a roll of paper towels - when it needed a garden hose and a cloth.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 12, 2013 8:43:37 GMT
actually, I think SD is talking about trucks that are dirtier than the ones you are talking about. That would be pretty impressive seeing as I've done this with a tank trailer that had a 12 foot long and 3 foot wide stripe of dried up fuel oil in a quarter inch thick layer along the side of it. Or for that matter a truck and trailer set that had been driving around northern Sweden for 3 weeks back in February. I've never seen anything so dirty in my entire life. Mud and dried up snow and road salt everywhere. It came in brown and grey and went out red and white after 45 minutes. |
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Post by the light works on Jul 12, 2013 13:59:28 GMT
actually, I think SD is talking about trucks that are dirtier than the ones you are talking about. That would be pretty impressive seeing as I've done this with a tank trailer that had a 12 foot long and 3 foot wide stripe of dried up fuel oil in a quarter inch thick layer along the side of it. Or for that matter a truck and trailer set that had been driving around northern Sweden for 3 weeks back in February. I've never seen anything so dirty in my entire life. Mud and dried up snow and road salt everywhere. It came in brown and grey and went out red and white after 45 minutes. We routinely have pickups come into the car wash with up to an inch of half dried mud caked all over them. - picked up in a couple hours. prewashing, the water goes on clear and comes off brown. (the bastidges also leave the mud lying on the floor of the wash and we have to sweep and shovel it up before another customer will use that wash bay.) |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 15, 2013 6:51:29 GMT
This is where ideas differ then....
I am talking about a truck 60ft long trailer and cab unit with up to a weeks worth of road dirt, salt spray during winter, mud, all kids of krud, crud, qurd and the rest of it.... sometimes so thick you cant see the writing on the side....
Sometimes an inch thick of road salt deposit on Mud-flaps....
If that kind of crud will simply rinse off, it saves Chemicals.
Why dissolve crud into chemical when it will simply drop off with water?...
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