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Post by Antigone68104 on Jun 13, 2013 15:05:14 GMT
I didn't want to put this in episode discussion because it's too much of a tangent.
(Mild spoiler alert for the Hypermiling episode)
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The team got a 40% improvement with their tested hypermiling techniques. I was wondering if that was enough to balance the additional time you'd take if you hypermiled a long drive.
I run right around 30 MPG driving around town, which includes maybe 25% highway driving (depending on how often during the week I get last minute "can you cover another location" phonecalls). I can hit 40 MPG on the interstate if conditions are just right, but let's stick with 30 for these calculations. My car has a 10 gallon fuel tank. So, if I ran the tank to empty, I could drive 300 miles on one tank. A 40% improvement would put me at 42 MPG, which would let me drive 420 miles on one tank. I would need 14 gallons of gas to cover that distance without hypermiling, so hypermiling is saving me 4 gallons of gas.
Right now, gas prices around here are averaging $3.40 per gallon. So hypermiling this hypothetical trip is saving me $13.60 in gas.
But now let's look at time. Covering 420 miles, or one tank's worth of hypermiling, at 45 MPH would take 9.34 hours. Covering that same distance at 60 MPH would take 7 hours. So hypermiling is "costing" me 2.34 hours. At the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, that's $16.96 of "time-expense" -- more than I'd save at the gas station by hypermiling.
So to me, it doesn't look like it's really all that cost-effective to hypermile -- just drive reasonably.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jun 13, 2013 15:45:57 GMT
Your math is valid, but your assumptions, not so much. There's always trade offs. You could park the car and walk and you'd save 14 gallons of gas, plus you could cancel your membership at the health club because you would be getting all the excessive you need walking.
The MB were just trying to confirm or bust the myth that you could double your mileage by making modifications to your vehicle and your driving habits. Some of those modifications may be practical, some not. They were just talking about gas consumption, not about saving money, sacrificing convenience, time or comfort.
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 14, 2013 5:40:47 GMT
My Greatest wage earners are "We need someone yesterday".......
Many of my employers know I am but half an hour away at keeping it to the speed limit driving, so when the phone goes, I am gone, perhaps enough time to make a flask of coffee.....
Yes you CAN hyper-mile.
But please, keep out of the way of us people who have to get somewhere?....
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Post by the light works on Jun 14, 2013 15:52:00 GMT
minimum wage may be $7.00 per hour - but my billing rate is $80.00 an hour. if you want to hypermile in front of me please give me a billing address so you're not costing me, and my customers, money.
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Post by srmarti on Jun 16, 2013 16:07:11 GMT
I didn't want to put this in episode discussion because it's too much of a tangent. (Mild spoiler alert for the Hypermiling episode) . . The team got a 40% improvement with their tested hypermiling techniques. I was wondering if that was enough to balance the additional time you'd take if you hypermiled a long drive. But now let's look at time. Covering 420 miles, or one tank's worth of hypermiling, at 45 MPH would take 9.34 hours. Covering that same distance at 60 MPH would take 7 hours. So hypermiling is "costing" me 2.34 hours. At the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, that's $16.96 of "time-expense" -- more than I'd save at the gas station by hypermiling. So to me, it doesn't look like it's really all that cost-effective to hypermile -- just drive reasonably. That's assuming someone would normally pay you for that commuting time or the less time spent traveling allowed you to spend more time at work getting paid for it. So the question might become, "how much is your free time worth?" Do you figure what watching a ball game costs you vs. working? Another analysis would be how much gas you use and time you shave off your commute behaving like a race car driver vs. being courteous and obeying traffic rules. You can employ hypermile-like driving without carrying it to extremes too. For example, don't drag race to the next traffic light. |
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Post by srmarti on Jun 16, 2013 16:18:18 GMT
My Greatest wage earners are "We need someone yesterday"....... Many of my employers know I am but half an hour away at keeping it to the speed limit driving, so when the phone goes, I am gone, perhaps enough time to make a flask of coffee..... Yes you CAN hyper-mile. But please, keep out of the way of us people who have to get somewhere?.... That's why you should keep right except to pass. On the other hand, if I'm behind someone doing the posted limit, can't pass and am not taking someone to the emergency room so they won't die, what grounds do I have to complain? Some people that drive aggressively often don't realize how often their butts are saved by someone else braking to avoid them. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 17, 2013 9:04:50 GMT
Smarti... not all roads are dual carriageway, not all roads have enough space or are entirely sensible to overtake on....
So having some fool doing the hyper-mile accelerate slowly and slow down gradually all over the place in front when you are having an Urgent journey?....
Doing the posted limit is one thing, taking entirely "Your taking the pizza" time to get there on an empty road whilst being "Wide" thus dissuading other people passing you?....
What reason do I have to complain....
Ok, so, there is about a dozen other vehicles behind me who are also being held up by this "Careful Driver"...
I do thing "Making reasonable progress" is mentioned in some hand-book somewhere, and is even Law in some places, so if you have a string of traffic behind you and you have the ability to pull over and GTF-outa-da-way, it kinda makes sense?....
So what is more annoying....
Following a HEAVY goods vehicle, who may just have a different speed limit for that road than lighter vehicles, or finding out that he in turn is being held up by some sunday driver towing a Caravan who is trying to Hypermile his rig into oblivion?....
For this reason, I sometimes wish my Horn had optional side-winders attached?....
I am often heard to quote a Seasoned driving instructor who made me laugh one time by alluding to slower drivers by saying "Second gear when you can please" in a Driving instructor "Speed up a little" way when we were stuck behind such a procession....
He also said at one point "What can you see your side ahead?... is he actually selling any Ice-Creams?..."
I did hear one driver complain "If we go much slower I will get my third parking ticket this week"....
"I didnt know they did driving tests for Funeral cars?..."
"Can we slow down some more, I'm spilling my soup on the bends"
You wonder why my sense of humour is so "jaded" when I have such characters around me?....
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Post by the light works on Jun 17, 2013 14:20:24 GMT
When I had my Acura and upgraded the exhaust to a 2" performance system, I commonly told people it was so I had enough top end to pass the truck AND the slow driver he was stuck behind. we have one particular style of bulk material trailer (used mainly for hauling wood chips) that due to its "maximum volume in the space allowed" design actually has its center of gravity below its axis line from kingpin to axles, when running empty. which essentially means that when doing the return leg, the limitation the rig faces is commonly the rate of acceleration of the engine, and the posted speed limit.
it also means that a good driver in such a rig can outdrive a bad driver in a car; except they don't have the acceleration to get around them on upgrades.
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Post by srmarti on Jun 18, 2013 5:12:14 GMT
Well of course you don't always have a left lane for passing. And did I not mention courtesy?
There's a stretch of two lane highway in my area with a speed limit of 35- 40 mph depending on which part you're driving. I've watched others have fits and pass me in no passing zones because I'm only doing 42-43. There's a rec center, businesses, houses, deer, etc. all along this winding road that some people figure they're safe doing 55 or better. One day, one such person blew past my dad and hit the cow in the road he slowed down to avoid.
I can drive reasonably and save gas compared to how some others appear to drive. Some hypermiling stuff is sensible if not taken to extremes. Some seem to purposely do the precise opposite of hypermiling.
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 19, 2013 8:20:09 GMT
Running Solo, or bob-tail, you had better bring what you Americans call a "Gasser", Minimum, to get a better 0-30 time....
I have all that engine, and more rubber touching the floor, I have more grip than an F1 car at that stage, so at 600+bhp, Solo, I have the get up and go of a high performance sports car....
Which, I have to be honest, is one of the delights of my job, getting away from the traffic lights and embarrassing the crud outa the twit who thinks its an easy target.......
I usually give them a waive at 30 mph to let them know I am done with the play?....
Big Mirrors.... why do we have big mirrors?... so we can see you chew your steering-wheel with frustration.....
Of course, bring a REAL sports car to the show, and I will know better than to play around....
But yer cheapo porch 911 will not pass with ease.
Some people have a genuine reason to be in a hurry.....
Its just you never can tell.
I know, those who have the blue flashing roof rack are the only ones who can be excused....
Its just "Your kid got into a fight (With the school bully, Which he won) can you come to school and bring him down off the ceiling before he hurts someone else accidentally?.." , you cant call the Cops for that, can you?...
Outside work, where I always drive to the utmost of care, I can drive many ways, including carefully, urgently, and race-track-ONLY scare-the-crud-outa-the-passenger.....
I dont break the law, but at times, I may push the limits?...
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Post by the light works on Jun 19, 2013 13:27:50 GMT
Running Solo, or bob-tail, you had better bring what you Americans call a "Gasser", Minimum, to get a better 0-30 time.... I have all that engine, and more rubber touching the floor, I have more grip than an F1 car at that stage, so at 600+bhp, Solo, I have the get up and go of a high performance sports car.... Which, I have to be honest, is one of the delights of my job, getting away from the traffic lights and embarrassing the crud outa the twit who thinks its an easy target....... I usually give them a waive at 30 mph to let them know I am done with the play?.... Big Mirrors.... why do we have big mirrors?... so we can see you chew your steering-wheel with frustration..... Of course, bring a REAL sports car to the show, and I will know better than to play around.... But yer cheapo porch 911 will not pass with ease. Some people have a genuine reason to be in a hurry..... Its just you never can tell. I know, those who have the blue flashing roof rack are the only ones who can be excused.... Its just "Your kid got into a fight (With the school bully, Which he won) can you come to school and bring him down off the ceiling before he hurts someone else accidentally?.." , you cant call the Cops for that, can you?... Outside work, where I always drive to the utmost of care, I can drive many ways, including carefully, urgently, and race-track-ONLY scare-the-crud-outa-the-passenger..... I dont break the law, but at times, I may push the limits?... 0-30, maybe. 45-70 can be a different story. I was behind one jerk, who I finally got around by dropping back around 100 yards, and then hitting the end of the blind corner such that if there HAD been oncoming traffic I would have had to do a panic brake to keep from plowing through the guy's back window - this in my Jeep, with the 304 CID V-8 (the block that they built the 5.0 liter mustang on). otherwise, the guy who was going 40 MPH on all corners in a 55 MPH speed one on clean dry pavement, was out accelerating my WOT and passing gear in every area it was legal to pass. but on the subject of the power train limiting acceleration; in my old fire tender, it took a minimum of a half second to shift gears; and I had to shift gears 9 times going from 0-60; unless I wanted to skip gears and then it took me a second to shift. granted, at low speeds, my shift points were only a second apart... big engine, big flywheel. |
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Post by srmarti on Jun 19, 2013 21:03:03 GMT
There's always a reason. It's not always a good one. Here's a similar off-road example: I pulled into the Dunkin Donuts parking lot and here's a woman sitting in her SUV half blocking a bunch of parking spaces just sitting there so it's unclear if she's coming or going. I maneuvered around her, parked and went inside. The woman enters about a minute behind me, starts ranting and demanding to see the manager. Apparently she went through the drive- thru ordered a drink and sandwich. Apparently the person at the window told her pull around and park and they'll bring it out to her. Well, that was unacceptable. She was going to be late for work, bah, bah, bah. That's genuine reason. Because she left herself no wiggle room to get to work on time and decided to stop at the drive-thru anyway, she disrupted people trying to get in and out of the parking lot and in the store getting their own orders. I don't think anyone within earshot thought she had a good reason. People in a hurry often slow things up by the chaos they generate.  |
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Post by User Unavailable on Jun 20, 2013 15:34:50 GMT
Sometimes it is amusing and sometimes it terrifying to watch, some drivers around here during the spring and fall, try to get around all the farm equipment which heavily travels the roads during planting and harvest times.
Typically a few minutes of patience is all that is needed, as the equipment will turn off onto another road, into a field or pull over, slow down and/or stop and motion that it is clear to pass or not, as road side signage/mail boxes/power poles or ditch conditions allow him to do so.
The amusing part comes from watching the ranting and raving of drivers smart enough not to try and pass a piece of equipment taking up most of the road and the terrifying part comes from seeing those who do try to pass and usually in no passing zones such as approaching the crest of a hill, where the equipment operator has moved over as much as possible to accommodate unseen, oncoming traffic from the other side of the hill and not the impatient moron behind him who decided that's where he needs to try and pass.
It is my firm belief, if you are going to live or commute through farm country, you have absolutely no reason to get mad if you get caught behind farm equipment on the road. You should factor that possibility into your travel time, just as those of us who have lived here our whole lives do.
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Post by the light works on Jun 20, 2013 15:39:17 GMT
Sometimes it is amusing and sometimes it terrifying to watch, some drivers around here during the spring and fall, try to get around all the farm equipment which heavily travels the roads during planting and harvest times. Typically a few minutes of patience is all that is needed, as the equipment will turn off onto another road, into a field or pull over, slow down and/or stop and motion that it is clear to pass or not, as road side signage/mail boxes/power poles or ditch conditions allow him to do so. The amusing part comes from watching the ranting and raving of drivers smart enough not to try and pass a piece of equipment taking up most of the road and the terrifying part comes from seeing those who do try to pass and usually in no passing zones such as approaching the crest of a hill, where the equipment operator has moved over as much as possible to accommodate unseen, oncoming traffic from the other side of the hill and not the impatient moron behind him who decided that's where he needs to try and pass. It is my firm belief, if you are going to live or commute through farm country, you have absolutely no reason to get mad if you get caught behind farm equipment on the road. You should factor that possibility into your travel time, just as those of us who have lived here our whole lives do. one of the amusing bits of my recent road trip to Montana, was seeing farm convoys barrelling down the freeway at the majestic speed of 35 MPH. (It's the only road available in that particular part of Washington.) |
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Post by User Unavailable on Jun 20, 2013 16:15:26 GMT
There are parts of the "Hwy 45 by-pass" portion of the Purchase Parkway here locally, where the road signage indicates, as normal, that farm equipment is prohibited, but there are a few miles between 2 exits where very large farm equipment, such as Combine Harvesters are allowed to use the by-pass, instead of going through town. Though there is now another bypass, that is not "parkway", that goes around the other side of town and I will wager all farm traffic will now have to use that route, especially as the Purchase Parkway is now part of the I-69 Corridor or Super Highway. I69 NAFTA Super Highway |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 24, 2013 7:57:35 GMT
Our whole country is one BIG farming zone.....
Well, outside of city centres anyway....
If you get on a single carriageway two lane road and there are fields, expect tractors.
Or Sudden sheep.....
Livestock is around at all times of the year.
But I still know people who know the exact [x] number of mins it takes to get to work, and its a daily battle for them to beat the record time?...
How sad is their life if that is the only highlight of the day they have?...
I was asked once during the subject of daily commutes, How long does it take me to drive each day?...
I answered about 10 hrs.... but I get paid for it....
One person who knew started the giggles.
The one who asked the question caught on eventually, but he had a genuine question to ask...
Do I "mind" sitting in traffic....
Hell no.
It has been on my mind ever since, and that was back in the 80's...
No I do NOT mind ever sitting in traffic... unlike all the other dashboard chewers and wheel thumpers, I get paid quite nicely to sit there doing NOTHING......
How can I mind that?...
Does it bother me?...
Of course.
I hate sitting in traffic as much as anyone else... its BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.............
Unless I can get a real prise dashboard chewer to watch who will pass some time?....
But if you know it takes 20 mins to drive, you give yourself 30 mins.
How then can people who arrive daily "Just in time" complain when they are late?...
They dont give themselves enough time, who's actual fault is that?....
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Post by the light works on Jun 24, 2013 14:04:41 GMT
Here, there are two kinds of trucking companies. one kind pays by the hour, and the other kind pays by the load mile.
guess whose drivers don't mind being stuck in traffic.
and the other side of the coin - back in my college days, I allotted myself 30 minutes to drive the 9 miles (all but one mile highway) to work. I had days I was cutting it close, and one day I slipped in just under the wire. my brother was riding his bicycle to work (another 2 miles past my job) the same summer, and there were days his commute was faster than mine.
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Post by c64 on Jul 6, 2013 22:12:33 GMT
A modern car wastes half a gallon of gas on purpose. You can fix that very easily.
The reason why a car wastes that much gas is emission control. In the late 80s, VW and other motor companies worked on super fuel efficient engines but they were unable to put those onto the market for environmental law changes.
The trouble is that if you use less gas, the extra oxygen in the engine reacts with nitrogen and other substances so you produce massive amounts of NO₁, NO₂ and even NO₃ which recombine to N₂ and O₂ but also lots of O₃ when the sun shines onto your exhaust gasses. And there are other poisonous chemicals.
So a modern engine must add more fuel to create lots of CO₁ - more than vintage cars did - so the catalytic converter can combine the CO₁ and NOx gasses to create harmless CO₂ and N₂.
The early Passat 35i was meant to have a super fuel efficient engine but had to be re-engineered to anticipate the next generation environmental laws. So they took away its "lean burn" capability and added a catalytic converter which wasn't an option any more for this car.
If you happen to own a early 35i (built before 1993) with a grey cast iron engine, some of the "lean burn" mechanics is still in place and all you need to do is some minor modification to the engine and some serious mods on the air intake, injection and ECU to get this car into a configuration it was meant to have until 1986 when they had to reconsider handling exhaust gasses, 3 years before the car was released onto the market.
And since my government demands an annual €300 extra as "stinker tax" for my old large engine, I just installed all the stuff necessary to have the lean burn capability. Using modern micro controllers, the efficiency is even better than the old engineers thought possible.
My new commute is 8 Kilometers of Autobahn, then some city driving with lots of stop and go and then 20 kilometers of twisty and pothole infected country road climbing the last few kilometers up a steep hill. The lunch break is a 6km (100kph) speed run of country road zigzagging through a dense forest up and down hills with the car crammed full of co-workers) and back again. On the return home trip, there is almost no traffic due to the odd hours I have and I always speed up to at least 150kph on the last 8 kilometers of Autobahn, just because the engine is thoughtfully warmed up and for the fun of it.
This really killes my MPG, I am down to 950km when the fuel gauge stops moving and I refuel my car with around 66 liters of E10.
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Post by OziRiS on Aug 1, 2013 19:48:10 GMT
You're saying you do 950 km on a 66 liter fill-up of regular gasoline?
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 1, 2013 20:42:13 GMT
You're saying you do 950 km on a 66 liter fill-up of regular gasoline? It works out as roughly 34/41 miles per gallon depending on if you use US or UK units. |
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