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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 11, 2013 15:22:59 GMT
As I said before. It was probably the refrigerant used in the refrigerator. This has been a problem because some of the "environmentally friendly" refrigerants are explosive. These refrigerants are a mixture of isobutane and propane. All it takes is a leak in the evaporator to fill the inside of the refrigerator with explosive gas and then a spark when the thermostat, which is also located inside the refrigerator, turns on or off the compressor. It's been reported a number of times. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1210334/Alert-new-wave-exploding-fridges-caused-environmentally-friendly-coolant.html
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Post by User Unavailable on Jul 11, 2013 15:44:40 GMT
I think we can finally put this one to rest. This article has a more plausible explanation. Quote: "At first, Goodwin thought a gas main had exploded but fire officials who investigated the blast discovered the culprit was an uncovered ramekin of homemade rhubarb chutney that she had been given five days earlier. As it fermented in the fridge, the chutney gave off methane gas, which can be explosive when mixed with air, the Daily Mail reported." That is a much more believable scenario. The methane mixes with air in the fridge and then only needs an ignition source, possibly provided by the compressor or defrost fan (more likely) when it kicks on for a normal cycle. Though GTC Greg's post just above this post, makes even more sense.
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Post by User Unavailable on Jul 11, 2013 15:53:36 GMT
I had similar thoughts - although I was thinking more about criminal liability as it would be an offence for a landlord to provide dangerous equipment in their properties. Then I read on a little more and caught the lady mentioning that she would have to find a new fridge. If the fridge was hers rather than belonging to the housing association then they would not be liable. It did sound almost like a gas explosion, in which case the housing association would not only be at fault but in serious trouble as they are legally obliged to check the gas system out every 12 months. However it does seem unlikely that gas would build up inside the fridge, and even more unlikely that the fire department wouldn't have picked up on it if it was even remotely possible. I caught the part about her having to buy a new fridge too and maybe that's where the BS comes in. Perhaps the housing association has to buy her a new one if the one she has is faulty, but she has to replace it herself if the destruction is "her fault", since she's the one who put the chutney in there? The fatal flaw in the "building gas system" theory is that in nearly all the articles I've read, including the one in the original post, state that the building did NOT have a gas system.
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Post by the light works on Jul 11, 2013 16:24:51 GMT
I had similar thoughts - although I was thinking more about criminal liability as it would be an offence for a landlord to provide dangerous equipment in their properties. Then I read on a little more and caught the lady mentioning that she would have to find a new fridge. If the fridge was hers rather than belonging to the housing association then they would not be liable. It did sound almost like a gas explosion, in which case the housing association would not only be at fault but in serious trouble as they are legally obliged to check the gas system out every 12 months. However it does seem unlikely that gas would build up inside the fridge, and even more unlikely that the fire department wouldn't have picked up on it if it was even remotely possible. I caught the part about her having to buy a new fridge too and maybe that's where the BS comes in. Perhaps the housing association has to buy her a new one if the one she has is faulty, but she has to replace it herself if the destruction is "her fault", since she's the one who put the chutney in there? that is a plausible theory.
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Post by the light works on Jul 11, 2013 16:27:13 GMT
I think we can finally put this one to rest. This article has a more plausible explanation. Quote: "At first, Goodwin thought a gas main had exploded but fire officials who investigated the blast discovered the culprit was an uncovered ramekin of homemade rhubarb chutney that she had been given five days earlier. As it fermented in the fridge, the chutney gave off methane gas, which can be explosive when mixed with air, the Daily Mail reported." That is a much more believable scenario. The methane mixes with air in the fridge and then only needs an ignition source, possibly provided by the compressor or defrost fan (more likely) when it kicks on for a normal cycle. Though GTC Greg's post just above this post, makes even more sense. my understanding is that only anaerobic decomposition gives off methane gas, but I could be wrong.
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Post by User Unavailable on Jul 11, 2013 19:15:47 GMT
I think we can finally put this one to rest. This article has a more plausible explanation. Quote: "At first, Goodwin thought a gas main had exploded but fire officials who investigated the blast discovered the culprit was an uncovered ramekin of homemade rhubarb chutney that she had been given five days earlier. As it fermented in the fridge, the chutney gave off methane gas, which can be explosive when mixed with air, the Daily Mail reported." That is a much more believable scenario. The methane mixes with air in the fridge and then only needs an ignition source, possibly provided by the compressor or defrost fan (more likely) when it kicks on for a normal cycle. Though GTC Greg's post just above this post, makes even more sense. my understanding is that only anaerobic decomposition gives off methane gas, but I could be wrong. TLW, I'm not sure either. The wiki article on Fermentation didn't really help. Though as I said, Greg's article makes the best sense and there seems to be precedence of the refrigerant already doing this and causing severe damage to homes. One thing I find odd, is that there seems to have been no law enforcement agency even called to the scene, much less any form of LE investigation. We already know that an explosion in a home here in the US is going to involve at the very least, local LE and possibly State And federal LE, and a verdict of "it was a jar of chutney", would never pass as an official answer to that level of damage. Different cultures I guess.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 11, 2013 19:25:29 GMT
As I said before. It was probably the refrigerant used in the refrigerator. This has been a problem because some of the "environmentally friendly" refrigerants are explosive. These refrigerants are a mixture of isobutane and propane. All it takes is a leak in the evaporator to fill the inside of the refrigerator with explosive gas and then a spark when the thermostat, which is also located inside the refrigerator, turns on or off the compressor. It's been reported a number of times. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1210334/Alert-new-wave-exploding-fridges-caused-environmentally-friendly-coolant.html This sounds a lot more plausible than anything having to do with the rhubarb chutney. If you look at the fridge in the picture in your link and compare it to the one in my original post they look like a pretty close match. I think we can finally put this one to rest. This article has a more plausible explanation. Quote: "At first, Goodwin thought a gas main had exploded but fire officials who investigated the blast discovered the culprit was an uncovered ramekin of homemade rhubarb chutney that she had been given five days earlier. As it fermented in the fridge, the chutney gave off methane gas, which can be explosive when mixed with air, the Daily Mail reported." That is a much more believable scenario. The methane mixes with air in the fridge and then only needs an ignition source, possibly provided by the compressor or defrost fan (more likely) when it kicks on for a normal cycle. Though GTC Greg's post just above this post, makes even more sense. As SD said earlier: The entire idea of preserving any perishable is to prevent fermentation, making the food last longer. If there was a fermentation process at all, the person who made this chutney did something wrong. I'm not convinced this is the explanation, but I could be wrong... I agree with you that GTCGreg's version sounds more plausible.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 11, 2013 19:31:05 GMT
One thing I find odd, is that there seems to have been no law enforcement agency even called to the scene, much less any form of LE investigation. We already know that an explosion in a home here in the US is going to involve at the very least, local LE and possibly State And federal LE, and a verdict of "it was a jar of chutney", would never pass as an official answer to that level of damage. Different cultures I guess. That's what struck me as odd too. Especially the part where it was someone from the housing association (conflict of interest anyone?) and not a fire official, police investigator or at least some sort of independent professional making the assesment.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 11, 2013 20:07:39 GMT
One thing I find odd, is that there seems to have been no law enforcement agency even called to the scene, much less any form of LE investigation. We already know that an explosion in a home here in the US is going to involve at the very least, local LE and possibly State And federal LE, and a verdict of "it was a jar of chutney", would never pass as an official answer to that level of damage. Different cultures I guess. That's what struck me as odd too. Especially the part where it was someone from the housing association (conflict of interest anyone?) and not a fire official, police investigator or at least some sort of independent professional making the assesment. Its not odd really. The investigators will tell the press little to nothing until or unless they have completed their investigation. So reporters tend to find anyone who can at least sound like a reliable or 'official' source to give them a quote they can use to make the story sell. It is the same reason that they reported that a Nobel prize winning scientist was claiming that the Hadron Collider was going to create a black hole that would destroy the Earth as soon as it was turned on. It sounds like a good quote, and is technically correct that he was a Nobel prize winner. What they decided to 'forget' was that his Nobel prize was for...botany. Because, you know, botanists know as much if not more about particle accelerators and quantum physics that someone who just happens to be a physicist.... You'd be correct (although technically its anaerobic respiration rather than just decomposition that creates methane). However in a sealed or poorly ventilated container oxygen can get depleted to the point that anaerobic respiration is the only viable option for bacteria.
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Post by the light works on Jul 12, 2013 2:12:16 GMT
how much of the oxygen in that refrigerator are those bacteria going to be sucking down? and once they've sucked it down, how are you going to get the methane ignited?
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Post by the light works on Jul 12, 2013 2:13:33 GMT
I think I see new test parameters. how much methane can a pot of chutney produce and is there any way that volume of methane can produce an explosive mixture in the refrigerator?
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 12, 2013 7:40:24 GMT
Terms of lease, in Retirement homes, if you break it, you pay for it..... Is this the case here?. This is because old age pensioners are presumed to be more accident prone?..................
BTW, to get "Lethal", would aforementioned pot of chutney be "Bubbling" methane, or can you get enough from surface evaporation?...
Heat.
My fridge is set to 2degC..... Ok, so thats low, many run between 2 to 5 degC, and I like my stuff cold...
But at that temp, isnt that in its self supposed to hinder "Fermentation", which as far as I can remember, required Heat?...
I have too many questions....................
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