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Post by OziRiS on Jul 7, 2013 14:15:08 GMT
The short version: An elderly woman in the UK wakes up one morning because of a loud bang from her kitchen. When she goes out there, the refrigerator door has been blown off its hinges and clear across the kitchen and the fridge is rendered useless. What caused this? A jar of rhubarb chutney, given to her by a friend only 5 days earlier, that had apperantly fermented quite fiercely, leading it to explode inside the fridge. Full story here: Exploding rhubarb chutney wrecks retirement flatHere's where this story starts to bug me: 1. The chutney had reportedly been "freshly made" not long before it was put in the woman's fridge and her friend who made it had no problems with the rest of the batch. That makes it hard for me to believe that the cause of this explosion was the fermented chutney. 2. The article claims that: "her family photographs has been smashed by the fridge door as it was flung across the kitchen, knocking a chunk from the wall. The explosion had also temporarily lifted the ceiling, leaving cracks in the top of the wall, living room and porch, and blew the casing off an extractor fan." Is it just me or does this seem like an awful lot of destruction for something as simple as a gas buildup in a glass jar? I'd buy that the fridge could be damaged, but the entire building? Something's off here... 3. The claim that the chutney was to blame wasn't made by firefighters (who had other suspects that sound more plausible), but by a "technical director" from the housing association that owned the building. I'm sorry, but this just sounds to me like the housing association is trying to cover something up. Maybe something was wrong with the fridge, I don't know... It just seems strange to me. What do you think? Could this be possible? Is it worth a test on the show? |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 7, 2013 15:04:22 GMT
Nice catch OziRiS  |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 7, 2013 15:07:44 GMT
Thanks Thought it was time to get back to basics and this type of story is what made the show back in the day. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 7, 2013 15:16:44 GMT
I agree, this is a 'pure' urban legend and I can't see anything about it that would be problematical to test, or limit them in terms of duplicating the results or even testing other condiments to see if they have the potential to do more than just blow a few taste buds.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 7, 2013 15:27:23 GMT
I agree, it should be pretty straight forward to test. I do however see a whole lot of fridge opening sequences followed by the words: "Nope. Nothing's blown up yet." in their futures  |
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jul 8, 2013 17:02:18 GMT
I've never done home canning, but I've heard enough stories from Mom and my aunts about Grandma's efforts in canning to know it's possible for fruits to ferment in the jar. Nothing ever blew up, but apparently Grandma was always embarrassed when her daughters asked if there were any more "zippy peaches". I have to question whether fermentation would be that active when the jar is refrigerated, though. I always thought yeasts slowed down when cold.
According to Wikipedia, the jars most commonly used for home canning in the UK are very similar to the Mason jars used in the US. So the only issue would be finding a fridge with similar hinges to this lady's.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jul 8, 2013 17:11:45 GMT
It doesn't take a lot of gas confined in a small space (fridge) to be very explosive. Whether you could get enough from fermentation is the question. Also keep in mind that some refrigerants are explosive. Refrigerators that have a leak and use explosive refrigerants have been known to explode.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 8, 2013 17:27:29 GMT
According to Wikipedia, the jars most commonly used for home canning in the UK are very similar to the Mason jars used in the US. So the only issue would be finding a fridge with similar hinges to this lady's. It depends on the person doing the canning. My gran simply reused old jam jars rather than buying 'new' jars. Then again my gran learnt cooking during the second world war, where reusing everything you could due to rationing was a necessity. |
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Post by ironhold on Jul 8, 2013 18:14:24 GMT
It doesn't take a lot of gas confined in a small space (fridge) to be very explosive. Back in the summers of 1994 and 2001 I went up to Utah to visit my grandmother. On one of the two trips, the day we arrived I happened to catch the evening news up there. Among the stories they had was an incident at a Mexican restaurant: a can of beans exploded with enough force to put a hole in the roof. So yes, I agree that it's quite possible something as small as a jar of fruit could have such force... ...but at the same time I wonder how much force was from the initial shockwave and how much was due to shrapnel (glass, metal, fruit, et cetra) striking the target. |
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Post by User Unavailable on Jul 8, 2013 21:04:09 GMT
I seriously doubt it. There just is no way the ingredients in a jar are going to produce the volume of gas required to expand that violently and do that much damage. It's ridiculous.
When canning jars do rupture from built up pressure (providing the seal on the lid doesn't go first, which it almost always do), it a makes a pop and a very localized mess, as in the jar cracks open and the contents run out.
Ironhold, I don't believe the bean can story either. The can may have went through a dropped/hanging ceiling, but through a roof? No way. The can just doesn't have the structural integrity or mass to punch through a constructed roof on a building.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jul 9, 2013 12:54:25 GMT
Just a note that according to her Twitter, Kari knows how to make jam. She's probably got the skills to make a test batch of rhubarb chutney, assuming we can find a recipe.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 9, 2013 13:11:21 GMT
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Post by the light works on Jul 9, 2013 14:14:35 GMT
Everybody who has done home brewing knows two things:
A: an exploding fermentation vessel cannot do that much actual damage. they simply don't have enough exponential expansion to create a significant blast wave - they just bathe the area in fermented material.
B: a canning jar is designed to hold vacuum, not pressure.
as for the bean can - that depends on the roof structure, or lack thereof.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 9, 2013 18:05:13 GMT
The build team have actually touched on this before during the exploding lava lamp myth.
What we saw, as FormerMarine pointed out, is that the glass container had to be very tightly sealed in order for the pressure to actually cause the container to explode rather than just pop the top cap off and spray the contents everywhere. And that was a lava lamp placed on a hotplate. In this case we're talking fermenting rhubarb in a cold environment.
Seems very counterintuitive to me.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jul 10, 2013 15:53:12 GMT
I seriously doubt it. There just is no way the ingredients in a jar are going to produce the volume of gas required to expand that violently and do that much damage. It's ridiculous. Oh, I agree with you -- there's no way the chutney did all that damage. But I still think it's a good test for the show. 1) We have a documented event, so there's no guessing about different elements of the story. 2) It should be easy to reproduce the event. 3) There's a potential food safety PSA here, in the form of "don't do this when canning, you'll get contamination/fermentation". 4) And for the big boom crowd, we wrap up with replicating the results and JD's version of a home canning recipe  . |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 10, 2013 17:26:07 GMT
I seriously doubt it. There just is no way the ingredients in a jar are going to produce the volume of gas required to expand that violently and do that much damage. It's ridiculous. Oh, I agree with you -- there's no way the chutney did all that damage. But I still think it's a good test for the show. 1) We have a documented event, so there's no guessing about different elements of the story. 2) It should be easy to reproduce the event. 3) There's a potential food safety PSA here, in the form of "don't do this when canning, you'll get contamination/fermentation". 4) And for the big boom crowd, we wrap up with replicating the results and JD's version of a home canning recipe . Which was pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I decided to post this It's just so classic MythBusters EDIT: And I'd like to add something to your list: 5) There's a potential for even more "scientific fun" in the hunt for what actually caused the explosion. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 11, 2013 8:17:07 GMT
Kilner Jars www.kilnerjar.co.uk/Are specially built to withstand "Rough handling", and supposed to be long lasting and many times re-useable.... So I wonder if a Kilner jar, or the like, may have been used for this Chutney recipe... Chutney... As far as I can remember, most Chutneys are acidic, some even contain Vinegar.... Reason being, the chutney process KILLS Yeast?.... That is part of the Chutney process, to prevent fermentation further, to aid in long-lasting preservatives?... I aint 100% certain on that, so open to question. ....I smell BS... they will blame the contents of the fridge and thus take suspicion away from possible faulty equipment, which may affect the insurance premiums?..... |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 11, 2013 11:36:57 GMT
I had similar thoughts - although I was thinking more about criminal liability as it would be an offence for a landlord to provide dangerous equipment in their properties.
Then I read on a little more and caught the lady mentioning that she would have to find a new fridge. If the fridge was hers rather than belonging to the housing association then they would not be liable.
It did sound almost like a gas explosion, in which case the housing association would not only be at fault but in serious trouble as they are legally obliged to check the gas system out every 12 months. However it does seem unlikely that gas would build up inside the fridge, and even more unlikely that the fire department wouldn't have picked up on it if it was even remotely possible.
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Post by the light works on Jul 11, 2013 13:43:16 GMT
maybe it wasn't really chutney - maybe it was high octane hooch...
although that still leaves the question of reaching the proper fuel air mix, and the ignition source.
more work for JD.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 11, 2013 15:11:28 GMT
I had similar thoughts - although I was thinking more about criminal liability as it would be an offence for a landlord to provide dangerous equipment in their properties. Then I read on a little more and caught the lady mentioning that she would have to find a new fridge. If the fridge was hers rather than belonging to the housing association then they would not be liable. It did sound almost like a gas explosion, in which case the housing association would not only be at fault but in serious trouble as they are legally obliged to check the gas system out every 12 months. However it does seem unlikely that gas would build up inside the fridge, and even more unlikely that the fire department wouldn't have picked up on it if it was even remotely possible. I caught the part about her having to buy a new fridge too and maybe that's where the BS comes in. Perhaps the housing association has to buy her a new one if the one she has is faulty, but she has to replace it herself if the destruction is "her fault", since she's the one who put the chutney in there? |
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