|
|
Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Jul 30, 2013 3:14:46 GMT
What's the best way to wash your dirty dishes? In a dish washer or by hand? There’s a dish washing machine commercial here in Australia that 'claims' is less cost efficient & that you waste more water washing dishes by hand rather than in a dish washer. Basically they say that a dish washer uses up to 40% less water & 50% less energy than the conventional hand dish washing method. Is this true? Sounds like a load of BS to me.  |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jul 30, 2013 15:50:37 GMT
What's the best way to wash your dirty dishes? In a dish washer or by hand? There’s a dish washing machine commercial here in Australia that 'claims' is less cost efficient & that you waste more water washing dishes by hand rather than in a dish washer. Basically they say that a dish washer uses up to 40% less water & 50% less energy than the conventional hand dish washing method. Is this true? Sounds like a load of BS to me. depends on how you operate the dishwasher. when I run the dishwwasher, I would estimate it uses less than the two basins of fully hot water that handwashing would use. however, when my wife runs the dishwasher, it uses that same amount of water plus the two basins of water that she uses to handwash them, first. |
|
|
|
Post by WhutScreenName on Jul 30, 2013 20:11:08 GMT
Something like this should be pretty easy to test. The key would be hooking up the drain line of both the sink and the dishwasher to an external tank to measure the amount of water used
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Jul 30, 2013 20:29:09 GMT
Something like this should be pretty easy to test. The key would be hooking up the drain line of both the sink and the dishwasher to an external tank to measure the amount of water used easy peasy, and could be done with off-the-shelf hardware. (including off the shelf gray water tanks.) |
|
|
|
Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Aug 1, 2013 11:55:28 GMT
Something like this should be pretty easy to test. The key would be hooking up the drain line of both the sink and the dishwasher to an external tank to measure the amount of water used easy peasy, and could be done with off-the-shelf hardware. (including off the shelf gray water tanks.) Yes but then what you said light works about how your wife washes the dishes might come into play. I mean what were the parameters were they using when they made this claim? Did they just chuck them into the machine & wash them, or did they pre wash them then put them into the machine to be washed? If they didn't pre wash them then their claim might be true, but then how clean would the dishes be? I know it depends on how powerful your machine is, but even with a powerful machine some things like baked on cheese can be. Hades to shift unless you pre wash/soak the dish & this in turn would then use more water. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 1, 2013 14:43:43 GMT
easy peasy, and could be done with off-the-shelf hardware. (including off the shelf gray water tanks.) Yes but then what you said light works about how your wife washes the dishes might come into play. I mean what were the parameters were they using when they made this claim? Did they just chuck them into the machine & wash them, or did they pre wash them then put them into the machine to be washed? If they didn't pre wash them then their claim might be true, but then how clean would the dishes be? I know it depends on how powerful your machine is, but even with a powerful machine some things like baked on cheese can be. Hades to shift unless you pre wash/soak the dish & this in turn would then use more water. yes, that's a factor, and I do presoak stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Aug 1, 2013 16:13:31 GMT
The part of that claim I find hardest to believe is the one about conserving power.
Our dishwasher runs on 230V at 2000W for a minimum of 80 minutes. My body will run for days (if needed) on whatever was in/on the glasses/plates before it was decided they were due for a wash.
Will someone explain to me how exactly that dishwasher will save me on the power bill?
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 1, 2013 16:37:41 GMT
The part of that claim I find hardest to believe is the one about conserving power. Our dishwasher runs on 230V at 2000W for a minimum of 80 minutes. My body will run for days (if needed) on whatever was in/on the glasses/plates before it was decided they were due for a wash. Will someone explain to me how exactly that dishwasher will save me on the power bill? I wold bet that it does not run on the FULL 2000W for the FULL 80 minutes. sounds like you live in the land of local water heating. over here, dishwashers are 1000W appliances, and rely on central water heating - sometimes with a booster heater. either way, there is a direct connection between your water use and your water heating use. in normal operation, the dishwasher (theoretically - I haven't stuck a logging ammeter on mine or anything) would run at under 100W - with just the pump drawing power. - except when it needed to heat the water, or use the electric drying element if it is fitted with one - and you have it turned on. |
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Aug 1, 2013 18:37:19 GMT
I wouldn't know my ass from my elbows when it comes to the specifics of how household electronics work, so I just read off the label on the back that it's 2000W. I could probably pick the thing apart and put it back together again with no problems, but as for how much power it uses at specific times, I couldn't care less.
My point was that it uses electrical power. Me getting off my elbows and doing the dishes manually doesn't.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 1, 2013 23:41:48 GMT
I wouldn't know my ass from my elbows when it comes to the specifics of how household electronics work, so I just read off the label on the back that it's 2000W. I could probably pick the thing apart and put it back together again with no problems, but as for how much power it uses at specific times, I couldn't care less. My point was that it uses electrical power. Me getting off my elbows and doing the dishes manually doesn't. you wash your dishes in cold water? |
|
|
|
Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Aug 2, 2013 2:30:44 GMT
I wouldn't know my ass from my elbows when it comes to the specifics of how household electronics work, so I just read off the label on the back that it's 2000W. I could probably pick the thing apart and put it back together again with no problems, but as for how much power it uses at specific times, I couldn't care less. My point was that it uses electrical power. Me getting off my elbows and doing the dishes manually doesn't. you wash your dishes in cold water? Maybe he has a natural gas powered hot water system. They are less expensive to use than electric hot water heaters (at lest they are here in Australia, I have no idea about the US or UK) |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 2, 2013 14:25:57 GMT
you wash your dishes in cold water? Maybe he has a natural gas powered hot water system. They are less expensive to use than electric hot water heaters (at lest they are here in Australia, I have no idea about the US or UK) Here, it depends completely on where you live. I recall one conversation had a person complaining about his high electric bills, and someone asked "can you convert to natural gas to get lower prices?" his response was "The company is (locality) light and gas. what do YOU think?" |
|
|
|
Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Aug 2, 2013 14:30:49 GMT
Maybe he has a natural gas powered hot water system. They are less expensive to use than electric hot water heaters (at lest they are here in Australia, I have no idea about the US or UK) Here, it depends completely on where you live. I recall one conversation had a person complaining about his high electric bills, and someone asked "can you convert to natural gas to get lower prices?" his response was "The company is (locality) light and gas. what do YOU think?" Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t they have monopoly laws in place where you’re at? Couldn’t he go with another provider? |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 2, 2013 14:37:44 GMT
Here, it depends completely on where you live. I recall one conversation had a person complaining about his high electric bills, and someone asked "can you convert to natural gas to get lower prices?" his response was "The company is (locality) light and gas. what do YOU think?" Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t they have monopoly laws in place where you’re at? Couldn’t he go with another provider? Utilities are typically exempt from monopoly laws, here - instead, they are regulated - which has its benefits and drawbacks. |
|
|
|
Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Aug 2, 2013 15:46:43 GMT
Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t they have monopoly laws in place where you’re at? Couldn’t he go with another provider? Utilities are typically exempt from monopoly laws, here - instead, they are regulated - which has its benefits and drawbacks. Well THAT suxs! Gives me one more thing to like about Australia. Here with the exception of water (which is usually a State &/or City run utility) in order to keep prices far & completive & avoid monopolies. People by law MUST be allowed a choice of which company provides their utilities. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 2, 2013 16:06:08 GMT
Utilities are typically exempt from monopoly laws, here - instead, they are regulated - which has its benefits and drawbacks. Well THAT suxs! Gives me one more thing to like about Australia. Here with the exception of water (which is usually a State &/or City run utility) in order to keep prices far & completive & avoid monopolies. People by law MUST be allowed a choice of which company provides their utilities. that seems complicated to me - do they share the same infrastructure and each provide the amount of service that their customers purchase, or do they each run separate infrastructure? here, for example, there is one set of gas lines, and one set of power lines. at the border between two utility districts, there is a connection point where one utility can request the neighboring utility backfeed their system (this is done during major outages on occasion) but otherwise; I, for example, am in Consumers Power territory, and they own the power lines. the regulatory agency has to approve a change of price, and requires a certain minimum level of service. cable TV companies and telephone companies now compete for telephone and internet service, each with their own infrastructure, but other than FIOS which tends to make promises it doesn't intend to keep, the phone companies have stayed out of the television market. |
|
|
|
Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Aug 2, 2013 16:15:23 GMT
Well THAT suxs! Gives me one more thing to like about Australia. Here with the exception of water (which is usually a State &/or City run utility) in order to keep prices far & completive & avoid monopolies. People by law MUST be allowed a choice of which company provides their utilities. that seems complicated to me - do they share the same infrastructure and each provide the amount of service that their customers purchase, or do they each run separate infrastructure? here, for example, there is one set of gas lines, and one set of power lines. at the border between two utility districts, there is a connection point where one utility can request the neighboring utility backfeed their system (this is done during major outages on occasion) but otherwise; I, for example, am in Consumers Power territory, and they own the power lines. the regulatory agency has to approve a change of price, and requires a certain minimum level of service. cable TV companies and telephone companies now compete for telephone and internet service, each with their own infrastructure, but other than FIOS which tends to make promises it doesn't intend to keep, the phone companies have stayed out of the television market. They like the phone companies all share the same basic infrastructure, but have monitoring devices installed at each home to see how much you spend. They jointly share in the up keep of the infrastructure & work out their fees according to cost for up keep + profits they'd like to make. They're monitored by the government & independent regulators in order to avoid corruption & price fixing. The good thing about this is it actually keeps the costs lower because they're always trying to steal each others customers & offering loyalty specials if you stay with them. This year my power/gas company started giving me a 30% discount off my gas & electric bills (15% of each group) since I've been with them for 5 years. |
|
|
|
Post by OziRiS on Aug 2, 2013 16:15:37 GMT
I wouldn't know my ass from my elbows when it comes to the specifics of how household electronics work, so I just read off the label on the back that it's 2000W. I could probably pick the thing apart and put it back together again with no problems, but as for how much power it uses at specific times, I couldn't care less. My point was that it uses electrical power. Me getting off my elbows and doing the dishes manually doesn't. you wash your dishes in cold water? Sorry. Didn't factor in that the water heater uses electricity. Still, it's a lot less than the dishwasher uses. As for utilities providers, no, we don't have a choise. Whoever owns the supply lines (electricity, water, cable TV, Internet and so on) is your supplier. In most cities there are options with TV and Internet, but not the one we live in. We have no other options for electricity. Unless we install solar panels, which isn't going to happen since we rent. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 2, 2013 16:39:05 GMT
you wash your dishes in cold water? Sorry. Didn't factor in that the water heater uses electricity. Still, it's a lot less than the dishwasher uses. As for utilities providers, no, we don't have a choise. Whoever owns the supply lines (electricity, water, cable TV, Internet and so on) is your supplier. In most cities there are options with TV and Internet, but not the one we live in. We have no other options for electricity. Unless we install solar panels, which isn't going to happen since we rent. my water heater runs 4500W, and from a full drain (I.E. a teenager length shower) takes 1/2 hour to completely cycle. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Aug 2, 2013 16:43:56 GMT
that seems complicated to me - do they share the same infrastructure and each provide the amount of service that their customers purchase, or do they each run separate infrastructure? here, for example, there is one set of gas lines, and one set of power lines. at the border between two utility districts, there is a connection point where one utility can request the neighboring utility backfeed their system (this is done during major outages on occasion) but otherwise; I, for example, am in Consumers Power territory, and they own the power lines. the regulatory agency has to approve a change of price, and requires a certain minimum level of service. cable TV companies and telephone companies now compete for telephone and internet service, each with their own infrastructure, but other than FIOS which tends to make promises it doesn't intend to keep, the phone companies have stayed out of the television market. They like the phone companies all share the same basic infrastructure, but have monitoring devices installed at each home to see how much you spend. They jointly share in the up keep of the infrastructure & work out their fees according to cost for up keep + profits they'd like to make. They're monitored by the government & independent regulators in order to avoid corruption & price fixing. The good thing about this is it actually keeps the costs lower because they're always trying to steal each others customers & offering loyalty specials if you stay with them. This year my power/gas company started giving me a 30% discount off my gas & electric bills (15% of each group) since I've been with them for 5 years. a lot of people hated when they deregulated phone service here - they broke up "ma bell" into smaller divisions, and each division had control of local service in their area; but you could buy long distance service from anyone. the end result was long distance providers pestering everybody to buy from them; and ultimately, some illegitimate "slamming" (where a provider would switch you to their service, and claim you had approved it over the phone) and the average cost of service didn't get any lower and the quality of service didn't get any higher. I don't know if our system gets any more abuse than yours. as I said, prices are very strictly regulated. |
|
