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Post by Lokifan on Sept 15, 2013 21:48:46 GMT
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Post by wvengineer on Sept 15, 2013 23:06:06 GMT
Is it a bad sign when i saw the thread title, my first thought was: "Heh good riddance, I thought that show was very overrated."?
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Post by the light works on Sept 15, 2013 23:36:02 GMT
Interesting theory. not sure how they will ever prove or disprove it.
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Post by User Unavailable on Sept 15, 2013 23:46:45 GMT
Is it a bad sign when i saw the thread title, my first thought was: "Heh good riddance, I thought that show was very overrated."?
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Post by User Unavailable on Sept 15, 2013 23:48:58 GMT
Interesting theory. not sure how they will ever prove or disprove it. Well, they have not proven the Big Bang either.
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Post by the light works on Sept 15, 2013 23:50:38 GMT
Interesting theory. not sure how they will ever prove or disprove it. Well, they have not proven the Big Bang either. indeed.
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Post by OziRiS on Sept 18, 2013 18:26:38 GMT
The biggest problem with figuring out where the universe came from is that if you find something that 'gave birth to it', then you'll have to find out where that something came from and so on and so forth. It never ends. At some point we'll have to accept that either something at some point came from nothing (maybe our universe and maybe whatever gave birth to it and maybe whatever infinite number of things that have given birth to something new that lead to us finally being here) or we'll have to come to terms with the fact that there's always been something.
I don't think we'll ever fully understand it.
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Post by the light works on Sept 18, 2013 18:45:20 GMT
The biggest problem with figuring out where the universe came from is that if you find something that 'gave birth to it', then you'll have to find out where that something came from and so on and so forth. It never ends. At some point we'll have to accept that either something at some point came from nothing (maybe our universe and maybe whatever gave birth to it and maybe whatever infinite number of things that have given birth to something new that lead to us finally being here) or we'll have to come to terms with the fact that there's always been something. I don't think we'll ever fully understand it. I think the biggest problem is that nobody really took decent notes on the process, so pretty much all we can do is speculate based on what we see around us; and that speculation is biased by people's religious prejudices.
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Post by privatepaddy on Sept 19, 2013 15:02:41 GMT
Interesting theory. not sure how they will ever prove or disprove it. Well, they have not proven the Big Bang either. It actually depends on what you accepts as proof, if it is true then you were there. Not assembled as the current you to be sure, so you don't have amnesia. There are certain phenomena that exist that the Bible does not explain or even mention as existing, indeed as far as the Bible is concerned the Milky way was it. Interpretation of the Bible by ignorant men (as in lacking knowledge) placed the Earth at the centre of the Universe as it was then. Now they have mapped the Visible Universe and the areas where matter has formed Stars and Galaxies is a very small percentage of the total area and is viewed as strands of thin bright light. Most of the universe is a cold inhospitable place where time as viewed from our reference point runs faster, if you were there walking (hard to do I accept) you would look like a 1920's movie star minus the cane. These areas according to the best instruments available are growing larger as the Universe expands, light is red shifted from Galaxies that started forming a mere hundreds/thousands of millennium after the proposed big bang. There is the layer of cosmic MBR that has been mapped, that if not caused by The sudden expansion of the Universe (Big Bang) must be explained by some other means. At this time I am aware of no method that cosmic MBR can be formed by a steady state Universe, there would also have to be an explanation of the red shift of the light and why Galaxies are receding from ours faster as the distance increases.
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Post by the light works on Sept 19, 2013 15:18:41 GMT
Well, they have not proven the Big Bang either. It actually depends on what you accepts as proof, if it is true then you were there. Not assembled as the current you to be sure, so you don't have amnesia. There are certain phenomena that exist that the Bible does not explain or even mention as existing, indeed as far as the Bible is concerned the Milky way was it. Interpretation of the Bible by ignorant men (as in lacking knowledge) placed the Earth at the centre of the Universe as it was then. Now they have mapped the Visible Universe and the areas where matter has formed Stars and Galaxies is a very small percentage of the total area and is viewed as strands of thin bright light. Most of the universe is a cold inhospitable place where time as viewed from our reference point runs faster, if you were there walking (hard to do I accept) you would look like a 1920's movie star minus the cane. These areas according to the best instruments available are growing larger as the Universe expands, light is red shifted from Galaxies that started forming a mere hundreds/thousands of millennium after the proposed big bang. There is the layer of cosmic MBR that has been mapped, that if not caused by The sudden expansion of the Universe (Big Bang) must be explained by some other means. At this time I am aware of no method that cosmic MBR can be formed by a steady state Universe, there would also have to be an explanation of the red shift of the light and why Galaxies are receding from ours faster as the distance increases. HUH?
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Post by User Unavailable on Sept 19, 2013 16:18:37 GMT
Well, they have not proven the Big Bang either. It actually depends on what you accepts as proof, if it is true then you were there. Not assembled as the current you to be sure, so you don't have amnesia. There are certain phenomena that exist that the Bible does not explain or even mention as existing, indeed as far as the Bible is concerned the Milky way was it. Interpretation of the Bible by ignorant men (as in lacking knowledge) placed the Earth at the centre of the Universe as it was then. Now they have mapped the Visible Universe and the areas where matter has formed Stars and Galaxies is a very small percentage of the total area and is viewed as strands of thin bright light. Most of the universe is a cold inhospitable place where time as viewed from our reference point runs faster, if you were there walking (hard to do I accept) you would look like a 1920's movie star minus the cane. These areas according to the best instruments available are growing larger as the Universe expands, light is red shifted from Galaxies that started forming a mere hundreds/thousands of millennium after the proposed big bang. There is the layer of cosmic MBR that has been mapped, that if not caused by The sudden expansion of the Universe (Big Bang) must be explained by some other means. At this time I am aware of no method that cosmic MBR can be formed by a steady state Universe, there would also have to be an explanation of the red shift of the light and why Galaxies are receding from ours faster as the distance increases. The Red Shift has been called into question as has the "expanding universe", which would make the Big Bang go away as well. Science is about keeping on looking for answers. Sometimes those answers destroy what you believe to be.
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Post by privatepaddy on Sept 19, 2013 21:23:12 GMT
It actually depends on what you accepts as proof, if it is true then you were there. Not assembled as the current you to be sure, so you don't have amnesia. There are certain phenomena that exist that the Bible does not explain or even mention as existing, indeed as far as the Bible is concerned the Milky way was it. Interpretation of the Bible by ignorant men (as in lacking knowledge) placed the Earth at the centre of the Universe as it was then. Now they have mapped the Visible Universe and the areas where matter has formed Stars and Galaxies is a very small percentage of the total area and is viewed as strands of thin bright light. Most of the universe is a cold inhospitable place where time as viewed from our reference point runs faster, if you were there walking (hard to do I accept) you would look like a 1920's movie star minus the cane. These areas according to the best instruments available are growing larger as the Universe expands, light is red shifted from Galaxies that started forming a mere hundreds/thousands of millennium after the proposed big bang. There is the layer of cosmic MBR that has been mapped, that if not caused by The sudden expansion of the Universe (Big Bang) must be explained by some other means. At this time I am aware of no method that cosmic MBR can be formed by a steady state Universe, there would also have to be an explanation of the red shift of the light and why Galaxies are receding from ours faster as the distance increases. The Red Shift has been called into question as has the "expanding universe", which would make the Big Bang go away as well. Science is about keeping on looking for answers. Sometimes those answers destroy what you believe to be. One of the reasons I am going to Uni, to find out for myself. I was a steady state universe believer up to the time that the evidence showed it was not looking like it. I have no problem with a universe with no beginning or end, but on the scale of things it does not matter what I believe. The CMBR is real it surrounds us at a distance of 13.xxxx billion light years. Light is red shifted as stated, the further a galaxy is away from us the greater the red shift. They estimate that the furtherest galaxy we will ever see is around 20+ billion light years. Curious stuff.
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Post by User Unavailable on Sept 19, 2013 21:51:52 GMT
The Red Shift has been called into question as has the "expanding universe", which would make the Big Bang go away as well. Science is about keeping on looking for answers. Sometimes those answers destroy what you believe to be. One of the reasons I am going to Uni, to find out for myself. I was a steady state universe believer up to the time that the evidence showed it was not looking like it. I have no problem with a universe with no beginning or end, but on the scale of things it does not matter what I believe. The CMBR is real it surrounds us at a distance of 13.xxxx billion light years. Light is red shifted as stated, the further a galaxy is away from us the greater the red shift. They estimate that the furtherest galaxy we will ever see is around 20+ billion light years. Curious stuff. The new theory being looked into on the Red Shift has to do with the increasing mass of the universe causing the Red Shift, not the moving apart of the universe. It's a theory brought to light by Christof Wetterich, a theoretical physicist at the University of Heidelberg in Germany. He is not being scoffed at by other astrophysicists either, no, they are having to look at this theory closely.
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Post by privatepaddy on Sept 20, 2013 5:49:47 GMT
One of the reasons I am going to Uni, to find out for myself. I was a steady state universe believer up to the time that the evidence showed it was not looking like it. I have no problem with a universe with no beginning or end, but on the scale of things it does not matter what I believe. The CMBR is real it surrounds us at a distance of 13.xxxx billion light years. Light is red shifted as stated, the further a galaxy is away from us the greater the red shift. They estimate that the furtherest galaxy we will ever see is around 20+ billion light years. Curious stuff. The new theory being looked into on the Red Shift has to do with the increasing mass of the universe causing the Red Shift, not the moving apart of the universe. It's a theory brought to light by Christof Wetterich, a theoretical physicist at the University of Heidelberg in Germany. He is not being scoffed at by other astrophysicists either, no, they are having to look at this theory closely. looked him up he is no light weight. talking of his idea/theory as I understand it revolves around the curious fact that the difference of the standard platinum 1 kg weight and the other standard weights from around the world. When brought together for recalibration shows an increase in the difference between it (lighter or static) and the others (heavier IIRC). According to this article in nature 16th July 2013 www.nature.com/news/cosmologist-claims-universe-may-not-be-expanding-1.13379The Paper has not been peer reviewed as such may not come to the attention of many scientists. There is a link in that article that leads to another which relates the Higgs particle and the inflation period evidence put forward just recently seems its not a happy marriage.
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Post by User Unavailable on Sept 20, 2013 14:49:12 GMT
The new theory being looked into on the Red Shift has to do with the increasing mass of the universe causing the Red Shift, not the moving apart of the universe. It's a theory brought to light by Christof Wetterich, a theoretical physicist at the University of Heidelberg in Germany. He is not being scoffed at by other astrophysicists either, no, they are having to look at this theory closely. looked him up he is no light weight. talking of his idea/theory as I understand it revolves around the curious fact that the difference of the standard platinum 1 kg weight and the other standard weights from around the world. When brought together for recalibration shows an increase in the difference between it (lighter or static) and the others (heavier IIRC). According to this article in nature 16th July 2013 www.nature.com/news/cosmologist-claims-universe-may-not-be-expanding-1.13379The Paper has not been peer reviewed as such may not come to the attention of many scientists. There is a link in that article that leads to another which relates the Higgs particle and the inflation period evidence put forward just recently seems its not a happy marriage. Thanks for that link! It and the related links within were very interesting. Personally, I believe the whole Big Bang thing has taken on an almost "religious" following. As was noted, Big Bang was getting so entrenched, that many scientists didnt even bother looking for alternatives.
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Post by privatepaddy on Sept 21, 2013 2:42:28 GMT
looked him up he is no light weight. talking of his idea/theory as I understand it revolves around the curious fact that the difference of the standard platinum 1 kg weight and the other standard weights from around the world. When brought together for recalibration shows an increase in the difference between it (lighter or static) and the others (heavier IIRC). According to this article in nature 16th July 2013 www.nature.com/news/cosmologist-claims-universe-may-not-be-expanding-1.13379The Paper has not been peer reviewed as such may not come to the attention of many scientists. There is a link in that article that leads to another which relates the Higgs particle and the inflation period evidence put forward just recently seems its not a happy marriage. Thanks for that link! It and the related links within were very interesting. Personally, I believe the whole Big Bang thing has taken on an almost "religious" following. As was noted, Big Bang was getting so entrenched, that many scientists didnt even bother looking for alternatives. Other scientist are out their working on the problem, trouble is they don't get the funding or the recognition for their work. Since they have a low profile the ideas don't get debated. www2.phys.canterbury.ac.nz/~dlw24/universe/Its a paper by David Wiltshire that attempts to explain Dark Energy within the realm of General Relativity and Dark energy is part of the Sudden Expansion of the Universe theorem. Marcus Chown in a discussion with Fred Watson commented that the Dark matter people should actually explain why MOND accurately predicts the motion of stars within a galaxy without the addition of large quantities of dark matter while there own theory requires large quantities which do vary. Not a direct quote it has been a while since I watched the interview. www.abc.net.au/tv/fora/stories/2009/07/02/2614961.htmSome entertainment for you Edit I should always check if the book marks are current www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2009/07/02/2614961.htmtry that one and the full talk.
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 22, 2013 6:28:00 GMT
<snip> Personally, I believe the whole Big Bang thing has taken on an almost "religious" following. As was noted, Big Bang was getting so entrenched, that many scientists didnt even bother looking for alternatives. Irony is funny. As I understand it, when the idea of the "Big Bang" was first proposed, it was objected to by many because is sounded too much like a Biblical creation (i.e.: "Let there be light"). The very term "Big Bang" was considered a derogatory reference to the concept. Now, to see it referred to as a "religious" following (I agree, by the way) I find amusing (but true).
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Post by privatepaddy on Sept 23, 2013 12:15:19 GMT
Funny or not, it should be remembered that General Relativity predicts an expanding universe (so I am reliably informed) so far it has not be shown to be in error. As for Black holes in 4 dimensions (op), to my knowledge they are all in four dimensional space. Conventionally they have collapsed under their own gravity to form singularities because the nuclear furnaces that provided the opposing force to gravity started producing iron, a reaction that requires more energy than it produces. To my way of thinking as soon as a singularity has an internal energy source that can oppose the gravity you won't have a singularity any more.
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Post by User Unavailable on Sept 26, 2013 20:47:58 GMT
<snip> Personally, I believe the whole Big Bang thing has taken on an almost "religious" following. As was noted, Big Bang was getting so entrenched, that many scientists didnt even bother looking for alternatives. Irony is funny. As I understand it, when the idea of the "Big Bang" was first proposed, it was objected to by many because is sounded too much like a Biblical creation (i.e.: "Let there be light"). The very term "Big Bang" was considered a derogatory reference to the concept. Now, to see it referred to as a "religious" following (I agree, by the way) I find amusing (but true). Yep, they are very similar in many ways. I've read articles by scientists who also happen to be religious, that consider the godly creation/Big Bang/evolution to all be perfectly linked together. Which if you do believe in God, it is by no stretch of the imagination at all to link what is said in the bible to the Big Bang and Evolution taking place over millions of years. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts the scientifically believed to be accurate, age of the Earth.
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Post by Lokifan on Sept 26, 2013 21:31:18 GMT
Yep. It all depends (on both sides of the argument) exactly how you take the Bible.
Irony again that both it's strongest supporters and critics both rely on taking everything in it absolutely literally.
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