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Post by the light works on Oct 5, 2013 18:31:07 GMT
It is pretty common knowledge that the average motorcycle can accelerate away from the average car. it is not quite so common, but most thinking people know that the same car can corner better than the same motorcycle. however, has anyone actually produced definite visual proof of that?
I'd like to see a double camera demonstration, given a car and a motorcycle that can accomplish a closed course lap in about the same lap time - then show the laps overlaid over each other so we can see where the car is faster and where the motorcycle is faster assuming the above premise is true, then the motorcycle should lead in the straightaways, and the car in the corners.
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 6, 2013 10:17:39 GMT
Yes, Several times...
Top Gear (The real UK version) and Fifth Gear have put two wheels against 4 wheels several times.
The answer?...
Depends.....
Take Spa.
The track is a LONG one, its perfect driving conditions, and has some excellent sweeping curves that can be taken at speed.
Take a good bike and comparable car, the bike wins, because the bike can make use of the horses-per-ton on long straights and just disappear into distance....
Take a short twisty circuit like Monte Carlo....
Its a street circuit well known for low speed and tight twisty corners...
The bike would have to literally stop at each corner, in fact, I think one of them is a definite foot down to get round it?... because even my bike of choice for would have a turning circle that would give problems there.
That is the track, now we go for Bike...
Which Bike.
Now I will ALWAYS want to pick a nice Ducati.... and then again, a different one for different circuits.
Why?... simply because a fine tuned Ducati road bike is built for tight corners and throwing the bike round them... It from Italy, and like its four-wheel cousin the Ferrari, Ducati is legendary on its handling skills...
But long straights... I would want to tinker with the engine a while....
So which bike is best?...
Now we have to look at Cars.
Could ANY bike out-race an F1 car?....
Including the Super bikes...
Again, depends on the track.
The Bike is lighter, always, and therefore, off the line, has less mass per horse to accelerate...
To be honest, its a horse for each course question.
I dont think a definitive answer can be given, because one mile down the road is a whole different road.
In traffic, the bike has the bikers third lane, tear down the dotted line.
In mixed cross-town traffic, and absolutely NO breaking any law at all, the bike has the advantage.....
On Corners, the four wheels have twice the stopping power and more stability and grip for a faster corner speed... but only up to a certain rate... get the bike on its side, if its at the place where I am using a knee slider and you may start to loose your advantage.
Out of the corner, good>>>>>>bye>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Post by the light works on Oct 6, 2013 13:51:39 GMT
Yes, Several times... Top Gear (The real UK version) and Fifth Gear have put two wheels against 4 wheels several times. The answer?... Depends..... Take Spa. The track is a LONG one, its perfect driving conditions, and has some excellent sweeping curves that can be taken at speed. Take a good bike and comparable car, the bike wins, because the bike can make use of the horses-per-ton on long straights and just disappear into distance.... Take a short twisty circuit like Monte Carlo.... Its a street circuit well known for low speed and tight twisty corners... The bike would have to literally stop at each corner, in fact, I think one of them is a definite foot down to get round it?... because even my bike of choice for would have a turning circle that would give problems there. That is the track, now we go for Bike... Which Bike. Now I will ALWAYS want to pick a nice Ducati.... and then again, a different one for different circuits. Why?... simply because a fine tuned Ducati road bike is built for tight corners and throwing the bike round them... It from Italy, and like its four-wheel cousin the Ferrari, Ducati is legendary on its handling skills... But long straights... I would want to tinker with the engine a while.... So which bike is best?... Now we have to look at Cars. Could ANY bike out-race an F1 car?.... Including the Super bikes... Again, depends on the track. The Bike is lighter, always, and therefore, off the line, has less mass per horse to accelerate... To be honest, its a horse for each course question. I dont think a definitive answer can be given, because one mile down the road is a whole different road. In traffic, the bike has the bikers third lane, tear down the dotted line. In mixed cross-town traffic, and absolutely NO breaking any law at all, the bike has the advantage..... On Corners, the four wheels have twice the stopping power and more stability and grip for a faster corner speed... but only up to a certain rate... get the bike on its side, if its at the place where I am using a knee slider and you may start to loose your advantage. Out of the corner, good>>>>>>bye>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ah, but that is where you use a combination of bike, track, and car; so that the race ends more or less in a tie. this will eliminate the "well, duh, you raced a bike that could beat the car" or "you raced a bike that couldn't beat the car" result. I just realized, I have a vested interest in the factors involved, because some years back, I wrote a short story, wherein two bikers on different bikes needed to elude pursuers in cars, and one used acceleration on long curves, while another dodged into the city grid traffic, to use maneuverability and size. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Oct 6, 2013 14:52:49 GMT
As written this doesn't strike me as a 'myth', or at least not one that would be testable and give meaningful results - as Dragon noted it would depend on the track.
Maybe a better variation would be that bikes are better for inner city/heavy traffic travel, as their higher manoeuvrability and acceleration results in a shorter travel time compared to a car. (Assuming, of course, that you stick within the speed limit). A fair number of people decide to travel to work on bikes for this reason, and of course bikes are often used by couriers in cities. Might be interesting to see if motorbike couriers are significantly faster than their four wheeled counterparts - might also be interesting to compare them to push-bike messengers, who can often go places a motorbike can't, or at least not without complaint.
This would be something they could test with ease, as Jamie has a bike and all the cast have their own cars/trucks and they could simply film on the streets of SF.
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Post by the light works on Oct 6, 2013 15:26:16 GMT
As written this doesn't strike me as a 'myth', or at least not one that would be testable and give meaningful results - as Dragon noted it would depend on the track. Maybe a better variation would be that bikes are better for inner city/heavy traffic travel, as their higher manoeuvrability and acceleration results in a shorter travel time compared to a car. (Assuming, of course, that you stick within the speed limit). A fair number of people decide to travel to work on bikes for this reason, and of course bikes are often used by couriers in cities. Might be interesting to see if motorbike couriers are significantly faster than their four wheeled counterparts - might also be interesting to compare them to push-bike messengers, who can often go places a motorbike can't, or at least not without complaint. This would be something they could test with ease, as Jamie has a bike and all the cast have their own cars/trucks and they could simply film on the streets of SF. that would be an interesting myth - though, of course, I think most of the advantages to bicycle messengers is that they are a pack of scofflaws. maybe for an april fool special they should test the myth of whether it is smart for a bicyclist to cut in front of a truck. I wonder if we could find a volunteer in the boards to drive the truck... EDIT: I guess the original myth would be that a car can corner harder than a bike. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 7, 2013 10:51:11 GMT
Just watched a Fifth Gear thing, with a Volvo ....
Car versus car, same car, Volvo S60
There is a Swede who races a Volvo S60 in their version of the touring car championships.
They took the road going "Polestar" race tuned street legal version of his race car, still on street legal and "As sold" equipment, no special changes except driver wearing Nomex suit and crash helmet, and went head to head....
The race driver in the road version, a presenter who knows how to drive pretty well in the race car.
The results were a little shocking... the road going version has a better sprint time over 60 yards than the race version, but it does have four wheel drive....
That aside, but used as evidence.
So, Bike with ONE wheel drive against car with four PHAT (Very fat) tyres on "Black snot" race compound....
Get the car race tuned.
Same with Bike.
For me, I think this may be an un-equal competition.
I fully expect the Car to get corners very fast.....
ALSO.
Take the best that America can build... what have you got that is factory spec that can race?...
Take a British build factory spec race bike.
Put them up against a Ducati.
All MUST be road legal.
Now set them off with a single A4 document package "Across town"....
Build a town course, have they still got access to that abandoned military housing estate?...
My money is on the Duke.
Bike versus truck... yeah, I will drive the truck, dependant on who is riding the bike.... but I dont think Gordon Brown has a motorcycle licence, and I think the bieber is too chicken-shirt to even try.
Car versus Bike.
Two different tools...
You may as well compare a nail gun to an electric drill/screwdriver.....
They will both stick two bits of wood together, but very different approaches?....
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2013 3:23:08 GMT
ummm... silver... you don't need a motorcycle license to ride a push bike. (here, bike messengers are on bicycles)
again, though - in the car vs motorbike challenge, you select a car and a bike that have the same lap time, to see which does better on which part of the course.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 15, 2013 10:52:32 GMT
Much to my annoyance...... as stated on another thread, I believe its time to recognise all road users should be sent to school to learn rules of the road, and pass some form of test, to prove they were not asleep....
Roads are getting too congested to allow fools free range.
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Post by the light works on Dec 30, 2013 0:39:53 GMT
Much to my annoyance...... as stated on another thread, I believe its time to recognise all road users should be sent to school to learn rules of the road, and pass some form of test, to prove they were not asleep.... Roads are getting too congested to allow fools free range. yes, I agree with that theory. I also think there should be some form of bicycle registration imposed, with proceeds going towards maintenance of bicycle friendliness. perhaps combined with a licensing system for adult riders; or a tax on dorky pants. (by your appellation of Lycra Loonies, I presume bicyclists over there wear dorky pants, too) dare I suggest that basic rules-of-the-road ought to be taught at multiple levels in the basic education system? |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 6, 2014 11:21:20 GMT
I say start at a YOUNG age....
Licence EVERYONE above the age of 5, or school entry age, whatever comes first.
To get the licence, they should show a basic level of competence.
If not, restrict their movements to the garden, a Locked garden at that.
I say this because more than once I have stood on the brakes and had the load shift as some young kid barrels down the garden path towards the road?....Do I know they know where the brakes are?....
Start young... at that age, getting a "Licence" may prove an attractive proposition, they may want to get that, and with a little education in the right place, it may prove valuable road experience...
That and provide a healthy exercise option.
That way, ignorance will be no excuse.
No, I dont know what dorky pants are... other than pants that make you look like a right twonka type dork?...
Lycra loonie are the ones that wear all the gear (But have no idea)... exactly the same as those that do the tour of france, those that look like Lance Armstrong, but all the time.
Most of them truly believe they have more road knowledge than any other road user, and will stand there and argue that they are right... I actually have started to believe they will get themselves into an argument just to trot out their holier than thou views, and they are harder to get rid of than jehovas witnesses....
I believe that an important part of education is understanding of the world about us, and road sense should be taught from a very young age, as part of the national curriculum.
We all use roads, yet they teach more about Latin that they do road sense?... how stupid can they be?...
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Post by the light works on Jan 8, 2014 16:31:41 GMT
I say start at a YOUNG age.... Licence EVERYONE above the age of 5, or school entry age, whatever comes first. To get the licence, they should show a basic level of competence. If not, restrict their movements to the garden, a Locked garden at that. I say this because more than once I have stood on the brakes and had the load shift as some young kid barrels down the garden path towards the road?....Do I know they know where the brakes are?.... Start young... at that age, getting a "Licence" may prove an attractive proposition, they may want to get that, and with a little education in the right place, it may prove valuable road experience... That and provide a healthy exercise option. That way, ignorance will be no excuse. No, I dont know what dorky pants are... other than pants that make you look like a right twonka type dork?... Lycra loonie are the ones that wear all the gear (But have no idea)... exactly the same as those that do the tour of france, those that look like Lance Armstrong, but all the time. Most of them truly believe they have more road knowledge than any other road user, and will stand there and argue that they are right... I actually have started to believe they will get themselves into an argument just to trot out their holier than thou views, and they are harder to get rid of than jehovas witnesses.... I believe that an important part of education is understanding of the world about us, and road sense should be taught from a very young age, as part of the national curriculum. We all use roads, yet they teach more about Latin that they do road sense?... how stupid can they be?...  image credit: search.dilbert.com/comic/Dorky%20PantsI actually used to own dorky pants; back when I rode more. no idea what happened to them; but probably the lycra is all blown out from age. (by "more" I mean an amount greater than zero) |
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