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Post by kharnynb on Nov 30, 2013 10:13:34 GMT
Depends a lot, usually with shorter work, you have an option to just take cash and arrange your own days.
But yeah, every job will have it's own "clock" especially since wages might change from job to job.
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2013 14:12:41 GMT
Depends a lot, usually with shorter work, you have an option to just take cash and arrange your own days. But yeah, every job will have it's own "clock" especially since wages might change from job to job. That is quite a sensible way to do things. here, the attempts have been along the lines of "we will make this day a paid holiday" or "after this long you will have this much paid vacation" both of which would result in preemptive layoffs.
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Post by the light works on Nov 30, 2013 14:17:32 GMT
It appears to be a common conceit among large corporations that (a) only teenagers and people supplementing another job take minimum wage positions. and (b) there is no reason why they should pay any of their employees more than minimum wage.
I will not go so far as to make accusations of motive and intellect - the charitable conclusion would the that they are truly that naive.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 6, 2013 8:56:36 GMT
I want a law that says if you are caught in a country ILLEGALLY, you are deported on the spot. Preferably at your own expense. No "I have to go home and pack", you ARE going home.... NOW!....
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Post by the light works on Dec 6, 2013 15:10:46 GMT
I want a law that says if you are caught in a country ILLEGALLY, you are deported on the spot. Preferably at your own expense. No "I have to go home and pack", you ARE going home.... NOW!.... I am a bit more charitable. I think if a person has come to the country for work, and is not otherwise engaged in illegal activity, their employer has the opportunity to legitimize them by paying all wages and taxes due; and they may have a work permit. otherwise, they are put on the bus home after signing them up for the immigration process; and the employer is required to pay all back wages and taxes due, in addition to hefty fines and close scrutiny. those who are doing other illegal things are given a one way trip home, and their possessions are forfeit as penalty.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 7, 2013 9:05:39 GMT
I want a law that says if you are caught in a country ILLEGALLY, you are deported on the spot. Preferably at your own expense. No "I have to go home and pack", you ARE going home.... NOW!.... I second that! I also say if you've had a kid during your illegal stay, that does not mean you get to automatically sty in the country. The kid can stay yes as they were born there, but you have to leave. & if you try to enter/do enter illegally & are caught your put on the first plane/boat/train/bus home. No excuses. I know it sounds harsh but I've seen far, far too many wasters trying to sneak in via the back door faking refugee status, & staying for years @ the tax payers expense wasting resources. Only for it to be found they are faking & are wasting valuable $ & time that could have been spent helping those in REAL need! ie: genuine refugees & those who are socially disadvantaged - the mentally ill, homeless, disabled, single Mums ect. Sorry everyone didn't mean to turn this into a political rant, I'm just sick of money being wasted by these faking *CENSOREDS*. If you're real/genuine then I'm more than willing to help you out. It's the con artist fakers I want to string up & toss overboard. *Lex hops off her soap box*
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Post by the light works on Dec 7, 2013 15:22:07 GMT
I want a law that says if you are caught in a country ILLEGALLY, you are deported on the spot. Preferably at your own expense. No "I have to go home and pack", you ARE going home.... NOW!.... I second that! I also say if you've had a kid during your illegal stay, that does not mean you get to automatically sty in the country. The kid can stay yes as they were born there, but you have to leave. & if you try to enter/do enter illegally & are caught your put on the first plane/boat/train/bus home. No excuses. I know it sounds harsh but I've seen far, far too many wasters trying to sneak in via the back door faking refugee status, & staying for years @ the tax payers expense wasting resources. Only for it to be found they are faking & are wasting valuable $ & time that could have been spent helping those in REAL need! ie: genuine refugees & those who are socially disadvantaged - the mentally ill, homeless, disabled, single Mums ect. Sorry everyone didn't mean to turn this into a political rant, I'm just sick of money being wasted by these faking *CENSOREDS*. If you're real/genuine then I'm more than willing to help you out. It's the con artist fakers I want to string up & toss overboard. *Lex hops off her soap box* thr good news is that the whole "anchor baby" myth in the US is just that: a myth. yes, a baby born in the US is automatically a citizen - but that doesn't grant any form of residency status on the parents. if they cannot get residency on their own merit, they and the baby have to go back home.
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Post by kharnynb on Dec 7, 2013 16:47:32 GMT
This law will go doubly for people who try to avoid the "first country" law in Europe.
Finland will never be the first country you look for asylum if you're coming from north-africa.
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Post by craighudson on Dec 7, 2013 19:06:57 GMT
I second that! I also say if you've had a kid during your illegal stay, that does not mean you get to automatically sty in the country. The kid can stay yes as they were born there, but you have to leave. & if you try to enter/do enter illegally & are caught your put on the first plane/boat/train/bus home. No excuses. I know it sounds harsh but I've seen far, far too many wasters trying to sneak in via the back door faking refugee status, & staying for years @ the tax payers expense wasting resources. Only for it to be found they are faking & are wasting valuable $ & time that could have been spent helping those in REAL need! ie: genuine refugees & those who are socially disadvantaged - the mentally ill, homeless, disabled, single Mums ect. Sorry everyone didn't mean to turn this into a political rant, I'm just sick of money being wasted by these faking *CENSOREDS*. If you're real/genuine then I'm more than willing to help you out. It's the con artist fakers I want to string up & toss overboard. *Lex hops off her soap box* thr good news is that the whole "anchor baby" myth in the US is just that: a myth. yes, a baby born in the US is automatically a citizen - but that doesn't grant any form of residency status on the parents. if they cannot get residency on their own merit, they and the baby have to go back home. What if the home country won't have the baby?
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Post by the light works on Dec 7, 2013 19:50:24 GMT
thr good news is that the whole "anchor baby" myth in the US is just that: a myth. yes, a baby born in the US is automatically a citizen - but that doesn't grant any form of residency status on the parents. if they cannot get residency on their own merit, they and the baby have to go back home. What if the home country won't have the baby? in that extreme circumstance, the child would need an adoptive family.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 8, 2013 8:53:44 GMT
Then do so through the LEGAL channels?... You can apply to work here in the UK legally.
I wish to challenge that. I know of cases where heavily pregnant women have arrived in this country, gone straight to A&E, had the baby, and used that as their reason to claim "Asylum"....
I therefore challenge that if the child is not old enough to fend for its self, legally, then it should automatically assume the nationality of the parent, until it is old enough to assume legal responsibility... Then if it wishes, it can apply for nationality of the country it was born in. And ONLY then.
Tough. The "Adoptive" country should "Grow a pair" and not let them say no.
Much like England has done with the EU, some countries need to turn round and say "No" to their neighbours....
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Post by the light works on Dec 8, 2013 16:51:26 GMT
Then do so through the LEGAL channels?... You can apply to work here in the UK legally. I wish to challenge that. I know of cases where heavily pregnant women have arrived in this country, gone straight to A&E, had the baby, and used that as their reason to claim "Asylum".... I therefore challenge that if the child is not old enough to fend for its self, legally, then it should automatically assume the nationality of the parent, until it is old enough to assume legal responsibility... Then if it wishes, it can apply for nationality of the country it was born in. And ONLY then. Tough. The "Adoptive" country should "Grow a pair" and not let them say no. Much like England has done with the EU, some countries need to turn round and say "No" to their neighbours.... there are channels currently in place where a business can import a specific worker. my exception would allow a business to do that retroactively - and would probably be mostly used in the case where a business thought the worker was here legally; and only had to pay certain fees to make it all legal. mostly the law would be used to reinforce that it was the jerk businessman's decision to force his worker to be deported. as for birth citizenship, that is something that is in our Constitution. It was suggested that an amendment be made to specify that the parent has to be legally resident for it to count; but that is unlikely to happen.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 11, 2013 6:58:06 GMT
Deportation of illegal migrants, if the jerk businessman's original place of residence is the same as the illegal workers, deport the whole lot, at his expense, 'home', at the same time... So, New law for consideration, employing illegals is against the law, and caries deportation as a penalty if you are 'here' under licence. If you are originally from 'this' country and make a habit of employing illegals, we dont want you anyway, so we may deport you as persona non gratia anyway?... [where 'here' and 'this' can be applied to any country where the offence happens]
I still think that the citizenship should follow the parents place of birth and follow their residency "licence", until they are old enough to look after themselves.
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Post by the light works on Dec 11, 2013 16:42:22 GMT
Deportation of illegal migrants, if the jerk businessman's original place of residence is the same as the illegal workers, deport the whole lot, at his expense, 'home', at the same time... So, New law for consideration, employing illegals is against the law, and caries deportation as a penalty if you are 'here' under licence. If you are originally from 'this' country and make a habit of employing illegals, we dont want you anyway, so we may deport you as persona non gratia anyway?... [where 'here' and 'this' can be applied to any country where the offence happens] I still think that the citizenship should follow the parents place of birth and follow their residency "licence", until they are old enough to look after themselves. I have suggested on occasion, typically when in a bad mood, that certain crimes should be penalized be revocation of citizenship.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 12, 2013 1:15:31 GMT
Wow... This thread took an unexpected and alarming turn...
I'm with Lex. If you're a faker who's just here to use the system, you're out. But everything else here seems a bit extreme.
SD, I'd expect a little more system critique out of you. Think about who makes the rules that govern when you're in a country "legally". Do you think those rules always make sense? Do you really think the legislators give two heaps of cold crap about what some people have been through to get where they are and what they'll face if they're sent back where they came from?
A very current example (sorry if this is long, but I feel a need to put a human face on this issue):
At my son's school there's a 10 year old Afghan girl, Yasmin, who's getting a lot of media attention right now. She fled Afghanistan with her parents and two younger siblings back in 2008 after the Taleban targeted her father and his cousin. Her father got away from the attack on the taxi he was driving, but his cousin didn't. He bled out in the back of the car. After the failed attempt on his life, the Taleban attacked his house with the intent of killing his entire family. He, his pregnant wife and their three children escaped out of a window, got into his taxi and drove off, watching out of the rear window as the Taleban burned down their house and everything they owned. Why was he targeted? His cousin was an interpreter and was helping British soldiers in the area. Yasmin's father provided transport to and from the meetings.
They drove as far as the tank of gas would get them and got close to the Iranian border. From then on it was on foot, only moving at night through Iran, sleeping in whatever hiding places they could find during the day, living off whatever scraps they could scrounge up. After almost a month of this they came to Turkey where they could finally find some help. Or so they thought. They were arrested as illegal immigrants, Yasmin's mother and the girls separated from her father and younger brother. Yasmin, her pregnant mother and her younger sister were then put in a small prison cell with 22 other female refugees, sitting and sleeping on a hard concrete floor and only being allowed an hour outside each day. They didn't know what had happened to Yasmin's father and brother and feared they would never see them again.
About a month later they were released and reunited and were told that they'd been accepted as refugees by Greece and would be sent there. Or - once again - so they thought. As it turned out, someone in the Turkish government had just decided that they needed to get rid of the refugees and had paid some sailors to transport them to Greece illegally in a small inflatable boat with an outboard motor. When they were about half a mile form the coast of Greece, they were told to get out and swim. Yasmin almost drowned on the way, but was saved by her father. They were once again left to their own devices in a strange country where they had no legal right to be and no documentation of who they were and where they came from.
After about a month of living like they had done in Iran, moving at night and hiding during the day, they found a helpful soul who would sail them to Italy. Shortly after they got there, they were confronted by police and made a run for it through a corn field. That would be the last time Yasmin, her mother and her sister would see her father and brother. They were separated in the field and while Yasmin's mother hid the girls, her father and brother got the police off their scent.
By means unknown to me, Yasmin and her mother and sister made it through Italy, Austria and Germany to get to Denmark. After 8 months in a refugee camp they were finally granted a temporary humanitarian residence permit on the grounds that a single mother and two young girls could not be sent back to Afghanistan on their own, as they would pretty much be considered outlaws (women are forbidden from going anywhere without a male escort). Yasmin's mother would most certainly be killed and her daughters sold or worse.
In late 2009 the Danish authorities saw it fit for them to be relocated. They had learned the basics of the language and were given an apartment in the town I live in. Yasmin (age 6) was sent to a special school for refugees to better her Danish in preparation for regular school and her little sister (age 4) was sent to nursery school. Meanwhile, Yasmin's mother began attending language lessons herself, so she could get a job once the baby was old enough to go to nursery school as well. 6 months later, Yasmin was ready for a regular Danish school and started in the 1st grade at the school where my son is now a student.
It's now been more than 5 years since Yasmin and her family fled Afghanistan. They've made a home here. Her mother has a job and is well liked in the community. Her little sister has just started kindergarten and her little brother is still in nursery school. Yasmin is doing well in school. She's in the 5th grade now and has consistently been at the top of her class for the past 2 years. She has lots of friends here, one of which is the older sister of my son's best friend. That's how we know her.
About 6 months ago there was suddenly word from Danish immigrations services. It had been more than 4 years since Yasmin, her mother and sister had seen her father and brother in that corn field in Italy and her baby brother had never even met them. They had been found in a refugee camp in Greece, where the Italian authorities had apparently sent them, since that was the last place they were able to determine they had been before entering Italy illegally. The family was extatic when they were told that they would be reunited here in Denmark.
Yasmin's father and brother were transferred to the same refugee camp here in Denmark where Yasmin and the others had been and they had to stay there for 2 months before they could join the rest of the family. Weekly visits were allowed though. When they finally joined the family here in my town, it seemed that everything would be okay for them for the first time in more than 5 years. Or so they thought...
The family hadn't been reunited for more than a month before there was word from immigrations again and this time it wasn't good news. The authorities had apparently decided that since Yasmin's mother was now reunited with her husband there would be no threat to them if they were sent back to Afghanistan. The country they fled from because the Taleban had attempted to KILL THE ENTIRE FAMILY!!! Nope! No threat there!
When Yasmin's class got the news they all burst into tears, including their teacher. Yasmin had told them the entire story on an overnight field trip about a year ago, so everyone knew what was likely to happen if she was sent back. The kids wouldn't have it. They made and sent a video to immigrations services, the justice department and the department of state, pleading with them to let Yasmin and her family stay. They've been working tirelessly with the help of their teachers and their parents for the past 3 months to try to change the verdict. One class mate's parents have even paid for an attorney to help the family with their case. The kids have been to every newspaper and TV station that would listen to the story and written letters to countless politicians but nothing has worked.
As of wednesday last week, the date has been set. They have to be out of the country by January 4th 2014. All because a bunch of deskjockeys who know nothing about the real world outside their offices "can't find any tangible evidence that the family will be in danger". It wasn't a week ago that the rest of us saw that "tangible evidence" on the news where a Syrian/Danish reporter broadcast live from the neighbouring city of the one Yasmin is from, where the Taleban were systematically wiping out anyone that had helped the Afghan government, the ISAF forces or even just left the country and gone to the West (the Taleban considers them spies). Nope... No danger at all... Go ahead and send them all back. They'll be fine.
Even if they aren't killed, Yasmin and her sister won't be allowed to go to school. They'll be forced to wear burkas and won't be allowed to go anywhere without a male escort. Since her parents have no possesions and no network at all (they found out not long ago that both Yasmin's sets of grandparents have been killed by the Taleban, along with one of her uncles - the rest of the family has fled the country, whereabouts unknown), their only option may be to give up their girls and force them to marry some disgusting old man, just so they're sure they have a roof over their heads and won't go hungry. Their baby brother who's born and raised here in Denmark doesn't even know the country he's about to be sent to and Yasmin's younger sister was so young when they fled that she barely remembers it.
Yasmin's father attempted suicide a month ago by locking the bathroom door, taking a whole bottle of sleeping pills and slicing open his wrists, hoping that his death would ensure that his family could stay in Denmark. Paramedics only just saved him. Yasmin has herself been admitted to a children's psychiatric ward on suicide watch shortly after her dad's attempt on his own life. As she recently put it in one of the many newspaper articles about her: "If I'm going to die anyway, I might as well just do it here on my own terms and get it over with." Those are the words of a 10 year old girl who's so afraid for her life that she's barely slept for months. She's so exhausted emotionally that she passed out in class two days ago and had to be rushed to the hospital.
Still think it's as black and white as "if you're here illegally, you should be thrown out instantly"? Someone here made a serious mistake in their threat assessment and if Yasmin and her family is here after January 4th, they're here illegally. The threat that was originally there was once enough to keep them here legally, but because some idiotic bureaucrat says so, there's suddenly no threat and they're here illegally. Does that make the slightest bit of sense at all?
But what if this story wasn't about Yasmin and her family? What if it was about you and your children? Would you still think "the law is the law" and just accept being sent to your certain death?
Again, sorry for the long post, but in light of what's happening with this case right now you guys just really hit a nerve.
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Post by the light works on Dec 12, 2013 2:03:36 GMT
It's never black and white, and I agree with you that this family should be granted political asylum. the current issue here in the US is that we have a grey market of mexicans coming across the border for jobs which are good by their standards, but the employers pay no payroll taxes on them; and often pay less than minimum wage. hidden amongst those are drug mules carrying various illicit drugs - sometimes willingly, sometimes under threat to their families. there are also members of Mexican drug cartels coming across to maintain their territories. these are what we think of as "illegal immigrants"
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 12, 2013 8:09:12 GMT
Back up. Many illegal immigrants that get to our shores have passed through several "Safe" european countries. And why didnt THEY take them?... And why didnt they want to stay in any "Safe" country?... Because they know that the current UK system is "Soft", and they stand less chance of being sent home as Economical migrants out to get what they can from the state systems.
Yes I accept there are certain people we MUST take, many people fleeing the war torn country, we will take. But for every one of them, there are about a thousand from recent joiners of europe who want to make it here because of our state benefit system.
The scroungers.
Forget those in desperate plight and fear of their life...
I want to return every single economic scrounger back where they came from... Because their presence demeans the "Asylum" system, and takes places away from those who desperately need to hide from Bullets.
Is my family in Danger?... Yes. Why?.. Because of the Tax bill. I have to work because the tax bill to feed those who have no interest in working takes food off the table in OUR house...
Do you get that now?.. I spend two days a month working for the goverment, who support economic migrants with no questions asked.
If it was someone from a war ravaged country, I am not in any way blocking their place at my table. They need it. Its charity.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 12, 2013 13:55:11 GMT
Back up. Many illegal immigrants that get to our shores have passed through several "Safe" european countries. And why didnt THEY take them?... And why didnt they want to stay in any "Safe" country?... Because they know that the current UK system is "Soft", and they stand less chance of being sent home as Economical migrants out to get what they can from the state systems. Yes I accept there are certain people we MUST take, many people fleeing the war torn country, we will take. But for every one of them, there are about a thousand from recent joiners of europe who want to make it here because of our state benefit system. The scroungers. Forget those in desperate plight and fear of their life... I want to return every single economic scrounger back where they came from... Because their presence demeans the "Asylum" system, and takes places away from those who desperately need to hide from Bullets. Is my family in Danger?... Yes. Why?.. Because of the Tax bill. I have to work because the tax bill to feed those who have no interest in working takes food off the table in OUR house... Do you get that now?.. I spend two days a month working for the goverment, who support economic migrants with no questions asked. If it was someone from a war ravaged country, I am not in any way blocking their place at my table. They need it. Its charity. The same thing has happened here, Australia is being flooded by 'economic refugees' that 'claim' (falsely) that they're being persecuted back in their homeland. When I was out of work through no fault of my own, I was told I could only receive a maximum of $1200 a month in assistance from the government. Even though I had been working & paying taxes for the past 10 years - & I had to pay tax for that meagre amount I did get cause it's classified as an 'income' by the Government here. But a 'so called' refugee (ie: a fake refugee) that 'sneaks' into Australia, gets that same amount of $ as I did a month, every two weeks from the government here - & they DON'T have to pay tax on it! Plus they get free housing, food, utilities, medical care (above the level that citizens get) & free education from the Government. Is it any wonder I dislike them?!? ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png)
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Dec 12, 2013 14:22:58 GMT
The same thing has happened here, Australia is being flooded by 'economic refugees' that 'claim' (falsely) that they're being persecuted back in their homeland. When I was out of work through no fault of my own, I was told I could only receive a maximum of $1200 a month in assistance from the government. Even though I had been working & paying taxes for the past 10 years - & I had to pay tax for that meagre amount I did get cause it's classified as an 'income' by the Government here. But a 'so called' refugee (ie: a fake refugee) that 'sneaks' into Australia, gets that same amount of $ as I did a month, every two weeks from the government here - & they DON'T have to pay tax on it! Plus they get free housing, food, utilities, medical care (above the level that citizens get) & free education from the Government. Is it any wonder I dislike them?!? ![>:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/superangry.png) Especially now, Australia needs to reevaluate their current stance towards illegal immigrants with Ford announcing their departure months ago, GM (Holden) joining them on the way out this week, and Toyota not sure of what their future in Australia will be*. By 2017, Australia will have over 20,000 of its citizens without employment and in need of help, its time to give them preference over someone who washes up on the shore under false pretense. *Could this be/have been avoided? Sure. If the current PM didn't have such extreme nationalistic pride that he feels the country can survive without foreign influence or jobs and instead chose to work with the companies to keep them around.
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Post by the light works on Dec 12, 2013 14:40:59 GMT
Back up. Many illegal immigrants that get to our shores have passed through several "Safe" european countries. And why didnt THEY take them?... And why didnt they want to stay in any "Safe" country?... Because they know that the current UK system is "Soft", and they stand less chance of being sent home as Economical migrants out to get what they can from the state systems. Yes I accept there are certain people we MUST take, many people fleeing the war torn country, we will take. But for every one of them, there are about a thousand from recent joiners of europe who want to make it here because of our state benefit system. The scroungers. Forget those in desperate plight and fear of their life... I want to return every single economic scrounger back where they came from... Because their presence demeans the "Asylum" system, and takes places away from those who desperately need to hide from Bullets. Is my family in Danger?... Yes. Why?.. Because of the Tax bill. I have to work because the tax bill to feed those who have no interest in working takes food off the table in OUR house... Do you get that now?.. I spend two days a month working for the goverment, who support economic migrants with no questions asked. If it was someone from a war ravaged country, I am not in any way blocking their place at my table. They need it. Its charity. I have to admit your health care system is awfully tempting to me.
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