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Post by kharnynb on Dec 12, 2013 15:38:29 GMT
Sadly, both in the UK and here in Finland, it's being broken down with alarming speed, to cut the budget....maybe they should cut some more useless crap, like trident missiles and bank buyouts.
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Post by the light works on Dec 12, 2013 16:30:43 GMT
Sadly, both in the UK and here in Finland, it's being broken down with alarming speed, to cut the budget....maybe they should cut some more useless crap, like trident missiles and bank buyouts. if only we could find some way of setting a post-hypnotic block against abusing the system. (referring to any system that is subject to abuse)
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 13, 2013 13:32:36 GMT
The problem is that the system itself is abusing the system.
The Scandinavian nations have the highest taxes in the world (Denmark is, sadly, in the lead). These are supposed to pay for the best welfare systems in the world, the so-called "security nets" for our citizens. The initial idea was great. You pay a higher income tax than you would in most other countries, but in return you get functioning and affordable public transportation, free doctor's visits and hospital care, free schooling, free care for the elderly and you're taken care of and helped back on your feet if you're out of a job or too sick to work.
Then people started taking advantage of the system. And when I say people, I don't just mean immigrants, though they've taken more than their fair share as well. Lazy nationals who'd rather let the rest of us take care of them than do any work themselves were a big problem back in the 70's and 80's. Control meassures were put into place, new laws were made and the end result is that more money now goes into insuring that no one gets something they're not entitled to than goes into actually helping those who really need it.
In Denmark we still pay up to 50% of our income in taxes (if you count VAT and various environmental taxes, property taxes and what not, we're probably closer to 75-80% at the end of the day) but the services we get for that money are getting worse every year. Our schools, hospitals and roads are worse. Our "affordable public transportation" is now so expensive that commuters are better off buying a car and that's saying something in Scandinavia, since import and environmental taxes here are so high that car and fuel prices are just rediculous! Police and rescue services are hopelessly underfunded as well. Our elderly are treated like cattle and our unemployed and sick are treated like lazy criminals, disempowered by the various control measures put in place by the government.
Why is this happening? It's simple. The system has outgrown its own worth.
In the attempt to legislate everything from the highest possible place (because people apparently don't have enough common sense and good judgement to make qualified decisions at lower levels of government), the bureaucracy has taken on a life of its own. A university professor here in Denmark published a very scary bit of information a while back. For every Dane that produces an item or service of actual value to the country, there are two administrators that do nothing but push paper back and forth. In other words, every one value producing person in this country pays the salaris of two leeching desk jockeys!
The funny thing? Welfare leeches aren't even as big a problem as politicians make them out to be. More than 60% of all people on welfare are investigated for fraud. Less than 2% of those 60% are found to have actually done anything wrong and only 0.8% do so knowingly. The rest just make mistakes when applying for benefits because the system is so hard to figure out. So we have about 8.000 people empolyed in the system with the sole purpose of exposing those 1,400-1,800 people we're actually talking about here and each one of those employees are paid almost double what the fraudsters make off with. It would be substantially cheaper to just let those people commit fraud!
In the meantime, politicians are pointing at the welfare scammers to take the public's eyes off their own scams that drain much larger amounts of money from our economy. Quick example:
When you're 18 or above in Denmark you can apply for a state education grant while you study. The idea of this is to get more people to finish an education by helping them financially while they study. It's a modest amount of money every month, barely enough to scrape by on, but it's better than nothing and it means you can work fewer hours on the side than you'd have to without it. It also levels the playing field between rich and poor, because it enables you to get an education regardless of your parents' income. It's about $900 a month, which isn't much in one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in.
A few years back we had a very young female MP for about a year and a half. She didn't do a very good job, lost her voters and her seat in parliament. She then decided to further her education and applied for a state education grant like everyone else. But because she'd been an MP for more than a year, her grant is suddenly a little larger than it is for everyone else. About 10 times larger to be precise. That's right. Because she was once an MP, she gets $9,000 each month as other students barely scrape by!
And people still think immigration will be the downfall of our economy...
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Post by the light works on Dec 13, 2013 15:02:13 GMT
our "public safety net" is ore like a splatter shield. It keeps debris from getting on the rich after you've cratered. the process of getting disability benefits takes about 2 years and a lawyer (who works for a share of the past due benefits)the basic principle is that if you freeze the applicant out long enough, the ones who aren't truly disabled will give up and go to work. the truth is, the truly disabled go bankrupt.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Dec 13, 2013 15:29:19 GMT
The undeserving will often contract with the slimier lawyers (the kind that advertises on the side of a bus...) and will tend to receive benefits quicker than the deserving because the judge (or migistrate) presiding over the case is familiar with the lawyer and would rather get rid of the lawyer than listen to prolonged (poo) from the lawyer. Hence why there is a growing market for private investigators who specialize in worker's comp/disability fraud.
Due to the backlog created by the fraudulent cases, those who truly need disability keep getting their court case delayed.
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Post by the light works on Dec 13, 2013 16:12:55 GMT
The undeserving will often contract with the slimier lawyers (the kind that advertises on the side of a bus...) and will tend to receive benefits quicker than the deserving because the judge (or migistrate) presiding over the case is familiar with the lawyer and would rather get rid of the lawyer than listen to prolonged (poo) from the lawyer. Hence why there is a growing market for private investigators who specialize in worker's comp/disability fraud. Due to the backlog created by the fraudulent cases, those who truly need disability keep getting their court case delayed. you still have to get through the backlog.
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Post by the light works on Dec 13, 2013 16:20:57 GMT
on a different topic; I have periodically said that if a person catches a vandal "tagging" something, they should be entitled to take the offender to a tattoo artist and "tag" them.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Dec 13, 2013 16:52:06 GMT
on a different topic; I have periodically said that if a person catches a vandal "tagging" something, they should be entitled to take the offender to a tattoo artist and "tag" them. Unfortunately, a lot of "taggers" will find this as a benefit, not a punishment. Can we tattoo "This space for rent." on their forehead?
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Post by kharnynb on Dec 13, 2013 16:53:37 GMT
sad thing, we used to look at the american version of social services and shake our head, nowadays we look at america's social services and fear we're next.
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Post by the light works on Dec 13, 2013 17:25:23 GMT
on a different topic; I have periodically said that if a person catches a vandal "tagging" something, they should be entitled to take the offender to a tattoo artist and "tag" them. Unfortunately, a lot of "taggers" will find this as a benefit, not a punishment. Can we tattoo "This space for rent." on their forehead? if that's what you want your tag to be.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 13, 2013 18:33:57 GMT
sad thing, we used to look at the american version of social services and shake our head, nowadays we look at america's social services and fear we're next. Well said
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 13, 2013 21:43:33 GMT
our "public safety net" is ore like a splatter shield. It keeps debris from getting on the rich after you've cratered. the process of getting disability benefits takes about 2 years and a lawyer (who works for a share of the past due benefits)the basic principle is that if you freeze the applicant out long enough, the ones who aren't truly disabled will give up and go to work. the truth is, the truly disabled go bankrupt. How long it takes depends on your medical history (or lack of) and how fast you make ALL the documentation available to the SS evaluation board. A limited medical history of your "disability", may require you to submit further medical examinations for review. Thus making the process take longer. If the review board feels you have not met the burden of proof, you may be denied and have to appeal. Not everyone is denied. Not everyone has to appeal. I filed for disability in January 2009 and got my first check in September 2009, including the required 6 month waiting period after my awards date, before receiving my first check. My paperwork/claim was approved no problem as I had medical all the way back to 2001 with my diagnosis of advanced glaucoma and regular treatment, surgeries, setbacks and loss of vision , medical records all made available to the SS board. I never hired a lawyer nor did I have to file an appeal, but EVERYONE told me I was going to have to.
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Post by the light works on Dec 13, 2013 21:48:19 GMT
our "public safety net" is ore like a splatter shield. It keeps debris from getting on the rich after you've cratered. the process of getting disability benefits takes about 2 years and a lawyer (who works for a share of the past due benefits)the basic principle is that if you freeze the applicant out long enough, the ones who aren't truly disabled will give up and go to work. the truth is, the truly disabled go bankrupt. How long it takes depends on your medical history (or lack of) and how fast you make ALL the documentation available to the SS evaluation board. A limited medical history of your "disability", may require you to submit further medical examinations for review. Thus making the process take longer. If the review board feels you have not met the burden of proof, you may be denied and have to appeal. Not everyone is denied. Not everyone has to appeal. I filed for disability in January 2009 and got my first check in September 2009, including the required 6 month waiting period after my awards date, before receiving my first check. My paperwork/claim was approved no problem as I had medical all the way back to 2001 with my diagnosis of advanced glaucoma and regular treatment, surgeries, setbacks and loss of vision , medical records all made available to the SS board. I never hired a lawyer nor did I have to file an appeal, but EVERYONE told me I was going to have to. you're a lucky man. I think we're going on three years since my wife had to give up her business.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 13, 2013 21:55:46 GMT
How long it takes depends on your medical history (or lack of) and how fast you make ALL the documentation available to the SS evaluation board. A limited medical history of your "disability", may require you to submit further medical examinations for review. Thus making the process take longer. If the review board feels you have not met the burden of proof, you may be denied and have to appeal. Not everyone is denied. Not everyone has to appeal. I filed for disability in January 2009 and got my first check in September 2009, including the required 6 month waiting period after my awards date, before receiving my first check. My paperwork/claim was approved no problem as I had medical all the way back to 2001 with my diagnosis of advanced glaucoma and regular treatment, surgeries, setbacks and loss of vision , medical records all made available to the SS board. I never hired a lawyer nor did I have to file an appeal, but EVERYONE told me I was going to have to. you're a lucky man. I think we're going on three years since my wife had to give up her business. Wow, that sucks! What grounds do they keep denying her disability on?
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Post by the light works on Dec 13, 2013 22:04:15 GMT
you're a lucky man. I think we're going on three years since my wife had to give up her business. Wow, that sucks! What grounds do they keep denying her disability on? on the grounds that even though she has an ungodly cocktail of chronic illnesses, to the point where she not only has an absenteeism problem from work, but also from doctor's appointments and family get-togethers; that shouldn't interfere with her ability to get a different job.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 13, 2013 23:23:18 GMT
Wow, that sucks! What grounds do they keep denying her disability on? on the grounds that even though she has an ungodly cocktail of chronic illnesses, to the point where she not only has an absenteeism problem from work, but also from doctor's appointments and family get-togethers; that shouldn't interfere with her ability to get a different job. So she is still working? There is your problem. You CANNOT be working and expect to get approved for disability. After you get disability, you can do a limited amount of work and earn a limited amount of money, but you better not be working full time and earning to much. www.socialsecurity.gov/redbook/eng/definedisability.htm#2=&a0=0
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 14, 2013 0:59:28 GMT
Wow, that sucks! What grounds do they keep denying her disability on? on the grounds that even though she has an ungodly cocktail of chronic illnesses, to the point where she not only has an absenteeism problem from work, but also from doctor's appointments and family get-togethers; that shouldn't interfere with her ability to get a different job. I'm sorry to hear that and I feel for you both. My girlfriend's been stuck in that rut for 10 years (chronic migraine after a work related accident, peppered with lots of comorbidities) and with the recent law changes in this country, she's probably going to stay stuck for at least another 10, so I have an idea of how that feels. If you ever need to vent about it, feel free to PM me. Nobody ever bothers to check in on how the next of kin are coping and sometimes you just really need to get it all out.
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Post by the light works on Dec 14, 2013 1:33:49 GMT
on the grounds that even though she has an ungodly cocktail of chronic illnesses, to the point where she not only has an absenteeism problem from work, but also from doctor's appointments and family get-togethers; that shouldn't interfere with her ability to get a different job. So she is still working? There is your problem. You CANNOT be working and expect to get approved for disability. After you get disability, you can do a limited amount of work and earn a limited amount of money, but you better not be working full time and earning to much. www.socialsecurity.gov/redbook/eng/definedisability.htm#2=&a0=0she still grooms one dog a month, when she doesn't have to call in sick; and she bought one of the local car washes, which is almost making money, and she is assisting the landlords for the complex the car wash is in, which adds up to a few hours a month, and not real critical about scheduling. - and mostly consists of forwarding their mail, depositing the rent checks, and assigning other people (and by other people I mean me) to do upkeep chores. we've already determined that she doesn't make anywhere near enough to count.
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Post by the light works on Dec 14, 2013 1:46:34 GMT
on the grounds that even though she has an ungodly cocktail of chronic illnesses, to the point where she not only has an absenteeism problem from work, but also from doctor's appointments and family get-togethers; that shouldn't interfere with her ability to get a different job. I'm sorry to hear that and I feel for you both. My girlfriend's been stuck in that rut for 10 years (chronic migraine after a work related accident, peppered with lots of comorbidities) and with the recent law changes in this country, she's probably going to stay stuck for at least another 10, so I have an idea of how that feels. If you ever need to vent about it, feel free to PM me. Nobody ever bothers to check in on how the next of kin are coping and sometimes you just really need to get it all out. It's rough. there are enough freeloaders in the system that I understand the issues - but at the same time, the timing of the whole thing was essentially the perfect storm as far as crippling my own business was concerned.
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 14, 2013 2:26:05 GMT
So she is still working? There is your problem. You CANNOT be working and expect to get approved for disability. After you get disability, you can do a limited amount of work and earn a limited amount of money, but you better not be working full time and earning to much. www.socialsecurity.gov/redbook/eng/definedisability.htm#2=&a0=0she still grooms one dog a month, when she doesn't have to call in sick; and she bought one of the local car washes, which is almost making money, and she is assisting the landlords for the complex the car wash is in, which adds up to a few hours a month, and not real critical about scheduling. - and mostly consists of forwarding their mail, depositing the rent checks, and assigning other people (and by other people I mean me) to do upkeep chores. we've already determined that she doesn't make anywhere near enough to count. They are going to look at it like this, "you're still able to work and are working, so you obviously are able to keep working and won't get disability". She is going to have to stop working and probably get a doctor to sign off on her being unable to work. The bad thing is you have 3 years record of her working while trying to get disability. A also, she owns a business, so under the self employed part of the link I provided is probably enough to disqualify her. I gotta be honest, this the first time I've heard of someone still working and trying to get disability. I think that has screwed you good.
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