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Post by paulsee on Nov 30, 2013 15:02:35 GMT
I was just watching an orchestra perform on TV. I noticed that the musicians are all focused and looking at their music notes and were barely looking at the conductor.
So this got me thinking if the conductor is really needed if the orchestra is highly trained and competent?
On a side note, I noticed that the whole group was still using paper notes. I wonder if technology could have improved this practice. A modern flat display could help coordinate the music. (Something in line with the bouncing ball in the old TV singing shows)
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 1, 2013 9:11:35 GMT
Answer, Yes.
In any band, you get one guy who runs the Mixing desk....
The orchestral conductorist person is THAT guy... for instance, he will signal when he wants "That" section to be louder or quieter...
No as a band member you dont "Watch" him, but he is always visible in the corner of your eye, and if he starts looking straight at you, THEN you take notice?....
His waiving of the wand is also the bit you tale your time que from.
Like any loud crowd, if you dont all keep to the same tempo, it gets messy?... so you ignore they guy next door to you, and take your que from the conductorist, who, as mentioned, is on the corner of your eye at all times...
Its like driving.
About almost 100% of sudden incidents start happening in the corner of your eye... that where you first see a ball bounce.... you learn to train the corner of your eye to be as important as everywhere else?...
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Post by the light works on Dec 1, 2013 16:50:00 GMT
as for tech - there are apps for digital devices that are used for storing and viewing music. the biggest challenge is getting the music into the device. the next biggest challenge is that a device is currently still usually smaller than a sheet of paper, and many more complex scores are two or three pages. this would necessitate specialized devices to display that much surface area - or special glasses to magnify the notation, without turning the conductor into a giant fuzzy blob.
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 3, 2013 17:01:16 GMT
Maybe you should expand the idea to ask if a conductor really needs to be that experienced/trained, or if anyone could do it?
That would give the cast an excuse to stand up in front of two dozen people and make fools of themselves....
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Post by the light works on Dec 3, 2013 18:50:18 GMT
Maybe you should expand the idea to ask if a conductor really needs to be that experienced/trained, or if anyone could do it? That would give the cast an excuse to stand up in front of two dozen people and make fools of themselves.... hmm... "does the conductor matter?" |
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 3, 2013 21:02:32 GMT
I've thought about that too. If everyone in the orchestra knows the piece of music they're supposed to play and have had time to practice it together, it seems to me that all they'd really need is a que that tells them when to start playing so everyone starts at the same time.
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 3, 2013 22:56:14 GMT
Can you think of any other myths relating to orchestras, or which could involve one? I'm just thinking that the time and expense of getting an orchestra on the show might not quite be worth the end result for this idea alone. So if there is anything else they could test at the same time....
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Post by the light works on Dec 4, 2013 2:08:18 GMT
you could check how loud they can be, compared to, say, a heavy metal band.
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Post by ponytail61 on Dec 4, 2013 3:49:04 GMT
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Post by the light works on Dec 4, 2013 4:28:25 GMT
the next question is: did each customer practice with the orchestra before the test performance, or not?
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Post by paulsee on Dec 6, 2013 2:36:59 GMT
Many thanks for the replies guys, it sounds like a curious thing to ponder.
On other interesting things about orchestra there are some I am curious about:
1. Does more instruments help make better sounding music? Something like minor mistakes
are not very pronounced so overall everything sounds better? Will large orchestras make more dramatic
music?
2. Is orchestra music better sounding when played loud rather than soft? Like listening to soft rock music seems
kind of odd and rock music is better played loud.
3. Are the arrangement of the instruments important in the production of good music? Like can we switch the
violins with the horns section position and will the music sound any different? I do know that there has
to be some basic sound resonance basics involved, but I really wonder if left or right really matter. Front
to back, probably.
4. Are the best seats of the house really at the balcony or are they at the main rows in front of the orchestra?
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Post by User Unavailable on Dec 6, 2013 3:53:51 GMT
Many thanks for the replies guys, it sounds like a curious thing to ponder. On other interesting things about orchestra there are some I am curious about: 1. Does more instruments help make better sounding music? Something like minor mistakes are not very pronounced so overall everything sounds better? Will large orchestras make more dramatic music? 2. Is orchestra music better sounding when played loud rather than soft? Like listening to soft rock music seems kind of odd and rock music is better played loud. 3. Are the arrangement of the instruments important in the production of good music? Like can we switch the violins with the horns section position and will the music sound any different? I do know that there has to be some basic sound resonance basics involved, but I really wonder if left or right really matter. Front to back, probably. 4. Are the best seats of the house really at the balcony or are they at the main rows in front of the orchestra? The only experience I have with "best seats" and orchestras is with musical theater. The best seats to hear both the orchestra AND the actors/singers on stage is as far away from the orchestra pit as possible*. Otherwise the orchestra overwhelms the singers and actors, even if they are wearing mics. * Assuming the Orchestra Pit is in the traditional location in front of and lower than the stage. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 6, 2013 7:32:06 GMT
I think its a line-of-sight thing, they stick the bigger instruments "At the back" so there isnt anyone behind who cant see whats going on?...
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Post by the light works on Dec 6, 2013 14:53:35 GMT
I think its a line-of-sight thing, they stick the bigger instruments "At the back" so there isnt anyone behind who cant see whats going on?... I think in addition there is an idea that instruments have to be line of sight for best audio characteristics. would you be able to hear a piccolo if it was sitting behind a tuba player? |
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 7, 2013 16:02:08 GMT
Since this is something that could be tested it has been moved to Random ideas - CM
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 8, 2013 8:55:51 GMT
Good Move.....
But then again, if sat behind a Tuba, would ANYONE see the conductor?....
Bit like getting stuck behind the lady with the "Hat" at Ascot... you dont see much but the back of the haed.
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Post by rmc on Jan 1, 2014 1:22:28 GMT
Maybe it ends up being a "Yes and no" sort of answer. I can certainly see a conductor being very useful during rehearsals, stoping the musicians occasionally, explaining where emphasis should be placed, that sort of thing. But, after many, many rehearsals where all have been directed as how to play the piece exactly, I wonder if the conductor is needed at that point? As in during the actual live performance? Or, maybe, they can't even get the whole thing started without him or her? link |
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Post by ironhold on Jan 1, 2014 2:11:52 GMT
Here me out on this one.
Kraftwerk "The Robots (THE MIX remix)"
If you watch closely, you'll see that the "mannequins" in the video are, in fact, robots that have been programmed to repeat a crude series of movements.
I recall hearing about an incident in which someone programmed a robotic arm to briefly lead the house band on a television variety show.
But is it possible to create and program a robot that could lead a proper orchestra in a full piece of music?
Not only would it give Grant something to get fired up about, it would also raise questions about whether or not a human conductor is still needed if the orchestra in question has already performed and rehearsed.
As an aside, here's the original mix of the song if anyone's curious:
No actual robots for this one; it's just the band decked out with some electronic gadgets and pretending to be robots.
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Post by OziRiS on Jan 2, 2014 8:15:59 GMT
The conductor is mostly there to direct timing, right?
How about setting up the music stands of each musician with a light that turns on (and possibly flashes with the beat of the music) whenever an instrument is introduced and turns off again whenever that instrument isn't needed?* It solves the question posed earlier of whether the orchestra can even start without the conductor (countdown flash to start) and it's a much simpler build.
With some rather simple computer programming you could pre-program the entire piece of music and get the lights to flash on and off for entire sections at a time and all you'd have to do was press play when you wanted to start. If it works and you perfect the method, you could even make a playlist and conduct an entire concert this way.
If you really want to test this method to its limits, get a bunch of mucisians that are used to playing in an orchestra but have never played or even just practiced together before. Present them with music they're all familiar with, let them practice individually with their new flashing music stand to familiarize them with the concept and then assemble them into an orchestra to see if they can play a piece together purely conducted this way.
If they can, the conductor isn't needed.
*My first thought was of a single, large flashing light that would stand where the conductor usually would, but it occured to me pretty quickly that the light wouldn't be able to communicate directly with an individual section or orchestra member, as a conductor can do with eye contact, body language and his little stick. That's why I went for the one light on each music stand approach (in case you were wondering).
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Post by the light works on Jan 2, 2014 15:11:46 GMT
The conductor is mostly there to direct timing, right? How about setting up the music stands of each musician with a light that turns on (and possibly flashes with the beat of the music) whenever an instrument is introduced and turns off again whenever that instrument isn't needed?* It solves the question posed earlier of whether the orchestra can even start without the conductor (countdown flash to start) and it's a much simpler build. With some rather simple computer programming you could pre-program the entire piece of music and get the lights to flash on and off for entire sections at a time and all you'd have to do was press play when you wanted to start. If it works and you perfect the method, you could even make a playlist and conduct an entire concert this way. If you really want to test this method to its limits, get a bunch of mucisians that are used to playing in an orchestra but have never played or even just practiced together before. Present them with music they're all familiar with, let them practice individually with their new flashing music stand to familiarize them with the concept and then assemble them into an orchestra to see if they can play a piece together purely conducted this way. If they can, the conductor isn't needed. *My first thought was of a single, large flashing light that would stand where the conductor usually would, but it occured to me pretty quickly that the light wouldn't be able to communicate directly with an individual section or orchestra member, as a conductor can do with eye contact, body language and his little stick. That's why I went for the one light on each music stand approach (in case you were wondering). at that point, you have a conductor. it's just electronic. I was in jazz band in school, and there were certain pieces we would perform without the conductor. even so, we still always had someone leading. |
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