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Post by the light works on Dec 6, 2013 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by alabastersandman on Feb 8, 2016 11:27:47 GMT
And in Arizona we have petrified trees that are alleged to be millions of years old, laying on the surface of the ground. And then we have dinosaurs that are alleged to be millions of years old because of how deep they are buried. Yes I know that this is a generalization by even the most generous of standards but still, the point is that we probably don't know nearly as much as we'd like to think we do. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 8, 2016 16:20:35 GMT
And in Arizona we have petrified trees that are alleged to be millions of years old, laying on the surface of the ground. And then we have dinosaurs that are alleged to be millions of years old because of how deep they are buried. Yes I know that this is a generalization by even the most generous of standards but still, the point is that we probably don't know nearly as much as we'd like to think we do. when we're talking about things that happened orders of magnitude before history began, some speculation and error is to be expected. and smart people don't build their lives around it. there is plenty going on NOW to build your life around. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 9, 2016 6:47:05 GMT
My order of the day is we now know more about what we dont know than we have ever not known.
If you think that through and consider what you dont know about say all the different languages of the earth, and how to discuss Thermonuclear dynamics in all of them, we realise we dont know half the stuff we wish we knew.
Knowledge is relevant.
In the case of a 400,000 yr old sub-species of monkey, and DNA, just what do they have that makes it "Human", as we share something like 99% of the DNA with silverback gorilla's as well.
DNA does not in any way indicate any form of sentience, ability, knowledge or IQ.
Being human is more than just DNA.
Otherwise, there is enough DNA match to claim Banana is also a distant sub species....
Which makes our own Librarian a cannibal?.
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Post by the light works on Feb 9, 2016 6:56:49 GMT
My order of the day is we now know more about what we dont know than we have ever not known. If you think that through and consider what you dont know about say all the different languages of the earth, and how to discuss Thermonuclear dynamics in all of them, we realise we dont know half the stuff we wish we knew. Knowledge is relevant. In the case of a 400,000 yr old sub-species of monkey, and DNA, just what do they have that makes it "Human", as we share something like 99% of the DNA with silverback gorilla's as well. DNA does not in any way indicate any form of sentience, ability, knowledge or IQ. Being human is more than just DNA. Otherwise, there is enough DNA match to claim Banana is also a distant sub species.... Which makes our own Librarian a cannibal?. my understanding is that we share an alarming amount of DNA with fruit flies. |
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Post by c64 on Mar 13, 2016 9:51:39 GMT
My order of the day is we now know more about what we dont know than we have ever not known. If you think that through and consider what you dont know about say all the different languages of the earth, and how to discuss Thermonuclear dynamics in all of them, we realise we dont know half the stuff we wish we knew. Knowledge is relevant. In the case of a 400,000 yr old sub-species of monkey, and DNA, just what do they have that makes it "Human", as we share something like 99% of the DNA with silverback gorilla's as well. DNA does not in any way indicate any form of sentience, ability, knowledge or IQ. Being human is more than just DNA. Otherwise, there is enough DNA match to claim Banana is also a distant sub species.... Which makes our own Librarian a cannibal?. my understanding is that we share an alarming amount of DNA with fruit flies. Why "alarming"? Most parts of the DNA are just to make cells able to reproduce, live and become organized in a bigger organism. Sizes and features of the organism doesn't take much genetic code. |
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Post by c64 on Mar 13, 2016 9:58:00 GMT
What is really amazing is that we now know that ⅔ of all known dinosaur species didn't exist!
Dinosaurs not only hatch from tiny eggs so the size difference between young dinosaurs and adults are extreme, they also change a lot of the unique features. E.g. the Triceratops has its horns pointing up and back when young and the horns shift to point forwards later. Also the shape of bones can alter dramatically during growing up. In the past, scientists had thought that different shapes of horns and bones mean different species.
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Post by c64 on Mar 13, 2016 10:06:05 GMT
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Post by the light works on Mar 13, 2016 14:26:10 GMT
my understanding is that we share an alarming amount of DNA with fruit flies. Why "alarming"? Most parts of the DNA are just to make cells able to reproduce, live and become organized in a bigger organism. Sizes and features of the organism doesn't take much genetic code. alarming because it either means we are related to fruit flied, or because it means using DNA similarities to assume species are related is given a bit more prominence than it actually deserves. but mostly because it is an amusing way to phrase it. meanwhile, in Oregon we can dig 40 feet down in certain places and find asphalt. meaning that the particular road has been settling at a rate of just under 6 inches per year for the hundred years it has been paved. |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 14, 2016 7:41:55 GMT
Where it used to be that the DNA was generally accepted to be that it was encoded in the list of instructions that say height eye colour hair colour and the rest, there is so much similarity to flies, that it makes you wonder if there is not a underlying "Operating system" that all life has that is a bit more complicated than we first thought.
In UK, we can dig down 6 inch and find the original "sets" (stone blocks) that may have been there many hundreds of years....or more...
Either we picked less volatile land to put roads over, of the whole country is sinking?..
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Post by mrfatso on Mar 14, 2016 8:02:51 GMT
Why "alarming"? Most parts of the DNA are just to make cells able to reproduce, live and become organized in a bigger organism. Sizes and features of the organism doesn't take much genetic code. alarming because it either means we are related to fruit flied, or because it means using DNA similarities to assume species are related is given a bit more prominence than it actually deserves. but mostly because it is an amusing way to phrase it. meanwhile, in Oregon we can dig 40 feet down in certain places and find asphalt. meaning that the particular road has been settling at a rate of just under 6 inches per year for the hundred years it has been paved. A lot of DNA is coded to make the basic building blocks of cells and their internal structures, in that way we are related to Fruit Flies, it is however the remaining percentage of DNA that is not related to those flies that creates the features of a Homo Sapiens. The Pacific Coast of America is at a convergent plate boundary a greater degree of settlement is to be expected that the currently tectoniclly stable Britain. |
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Post by the light works on Mar 14, 2016 14:32:14 GMT
Where it used to be that the DNA was generally accepted to be that it was encoded in the list of instructions that say height eye colour hair colour and the rest, there is so much similarity to flies, that it makes you wonder if there is not a underlying "Operating system" that all life has that is a bit more complicated than we first thought. In UK, we can dig down 6 inch and find the original "sets" (stone blocks) that may have been there many hundreds of years....or more... Either we picked less volatile land to put roads over, of the whole country is sinking?.. we've got places where the road was built on a swamp - or on a sandhill. (it has nothing to do with the plates in this case, it's more local than that. I'd post a picture but apparently nobody has ever taken one. |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 15, 2016 7:05:24 GMT
Wise move, perhaps standing still in a swamp and setting up a camera is not the wisest choice?...
We also have roads and even train tracks over swampy boggy ground, they spend years beforehand building up the sub-strata before they lay the top surfaces.
So perhaps there is about 40 ft under some of our outer lying roads?...
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Post by Cybermortis on Mar 15, 2016 13:43:40 GMT
Genetics is a very complex field, far more complex than what is taught in schools. There are large chunks of human DNA that apparently do nothing, but it you remove that "junk" DNA other parts of the sequence stop working. So its not as simple as gene A results in trait A. It can often be the case that gene A, with apparently unused gene R in the presence of gene V works with gene C to activate trait A.
And this is leaving out absorbed DNA sequences (the human genome contains the genome for a virus so virulent it could wipe out all life in weeks. Thankfully the genome in question is split in two, and is rather important as its the reason the immune system doesn't attack fertilized eggs in the womb. Or put more simply its why humans can have live births rather than having to lay eggs. Ladies, you are welcome for the image of laying a foot and a half long egg every 28 days...). Or for that matter the effects on traits caused by the environment.
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 15, 2016 15:17:19 GMT
As in the scientists just dont know?....obviously they do do something, its just we dont know.
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Post by the light works on Mar 15, 2016 15:33:47 GMT
As in the scientists just dont know?....obviously they do do something, its just we dont know. that's how I read it. |
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Post by c64 on Mar 16, 2016 8:27:46 GMT
Genetics is a very complex field, far more complex than what is taught in schools. There are large chunks of human DNA that apparently do nothing, but it you remove that "junk" DNA other parts of the sequence stop working. So its not as simple as gene A results in trait A. It can often be the case that gene A, with apparently unused gene R in the presence of gene V works with gene C to activate trait A. And this is leaving out absorbed DNA sequences (the human genome contains the genome for a virus so virulent it could wipe out all life in weeks. Thankfully the genome in question is split in two, and is rather important as its the reason the immune system doesn't attack fertilized eggs in the womb. Or put more simply its why humans can have live births rather than having to lay eggs. Ladies, you are welcome for the image of laying a foot and a half long egg every 28 days...). Or for that matter the effects on traits caused by the environment. Also, DNA code is not like a CD-ROM. There are genetic switches which can control which features of the DNA are active and which are not. The old joke that "third generation chemists are fireproof and acid resistant" is not that unrealistic. For example, if there is not much food around for a long time and animals (or humans) don't get enough food, there is (at least one) genetic switch set which makes the offspring shorter and smaller so the next generation can deal with the food shortage much better. That's why the generation of humans after the depression and born during the world war¹⁾ are a lot shorter while the generation born in the economic miracle (middle Europe 1970s) are a lot taller. There are a lot of other factors which affect certain genetic switches, e.g. the climate. That's why unlike their children, migrants never really adapt to a very different climate zone.
To understand why so much DNA is the same for most living things, you need to understand that most of the sequences are assembly instructions for proteins and instructions in which order those proteins need to be produced to create a part of something. So for example, if you want to make a car, you need a lot more information than how a car works and which parts work together to e.g. create an engine. You also need to know how to make screws, bolts and nuts. And to make those, you need to know how to harvest raw materials, process them and then how to shape them into the bolts, screws and nuts. There is no "genetic operation system", just a vast library which includes everything to make something very complex from scratch. So no matter if you want a VW bug, a Bugatti, a Dodge, a Ford or a bicycle or a trash can, most of the knowledge involved to make those is identical. If you want to make something at home, you go into the hardware store and pick from whatever you can find there. But there is no hardware store in living things, the cells have to make everything all by them self. There are many thousands of DIN-EN specifications, each one is at least one big binder of paper. Now imagine all of them in a pile. If you want to make something particular, you only need a few of them. But the more different stuff you make, the more of those binders you need. And if you stop making some items, you keep the binders and this is the genetic material which seems to do nothing. But in an organized library, taking out books you don't need and closing the gap by pushing books around will destroy the order of the library and you can't find anything any more.
¹⁾ More and more historians now claim that there was only one World War which just took a break for a few years. The protagonists of the second half were trained and educated in the first half. The break was just to change the leaders and key persons and to change warfare strategies and technology. |
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