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Post by c64 on May 29, 2014 5:17:12 GMT
If the trip is too short, they can't reach an economic altitude. But they cause more stress per mile than on long distance. And this is exactly what caused the Aloha Airlines incident. The plane was totally ruined from the takeoff and landing wear but nobody had noticed because it had not much miles on it and wasn't that old. Well, the airplane industry learns something new every crash or two. That's the only reason why I don't like flying. because takeoffs and landings cause engineering failures when assembling aircraft. what caused the failure was spending its whole life in Hawaii, where the salt laden humid air was able to permeate the improperly sealed seams and corrode the rivet holes. since the plane was relying on the rivets for all of its structural strength, when the rivet holes failed, everything came apart. what they learned from that was to bond the skin together in addition to riveting it. The industry always blames salt for everything. If your car rusts apart, it's not the fault of the car industry, the car is rusting because of the salt used for deicing the roads. |
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Post by the light works on May 29, 2014 14:10:15 GMT
because takeoffs and landings cause engineering failures when assembling aircraft. what caused the failure was spending its whole life in Hawaii, where the salt laden humid air was able to permeate the improperly sealed seams and corrode the rivet holes. since the plane was relying on the rivets for all of its structural strength, when the rivet holes failed, everything came apart. what they learned from that was to bond the skin together in addition to riveting it. The industry always blames salt for everything. If your car rusts apart, it's not the fault of the car industry, the car is rusting because of the salt used for deicing the roads. when a car here rusts apart in half the time it takes over the first line of foothills, it probably isn't the fault of the car industry. you inlanders don't comprehend just how corrosive our atmosphere is, where I live. some things ARE a fault of the manufacturer - my overhead rack on my service truck is rusting out because the manufacturer made it out of mild steel - which would have been perfectly fine in the valley where they built it. here EVERYTHING welded out of steel is hot dip galvanized, and then it has an expected lifespan of about 10 years before it starts to rust. all of the standard meter bases I install are made from stainless steel, and they usually don't rust out. cast aluminum dissolves in about two years, and brass starts eroding in 5. worst case I saw was a foreclosure home where the electricians had installed a panel with an aluminum main bus - it was so pitted I had to replace it at only 6 months after the original installation. Attachment Deleted this house is less than 10 years old Attachment DeletedAttachment Deletedsame light - 2 days difference. fortunately they want ed them to do this. |
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Post by c64 on May 30, 2014 14:51:55 GMT
The industry always blames salt for everything. If your car rusts apart, it's not the fault of the car industry, the car is rusting because of the salt used for deicing the roads. when a car here rusts apart in half the time it takes over the first line of foothills, it probably isn't the fault of the car industry. you inlanders don't comprehend just how corrosive our atmosphere is, where I live. some things ARE a fault of the manufacturer - my overhead rack on my service truck is rusting out because the manufacturer made it out of mild steel - which would have been perfectly fine in the valley where they built it. here EVERYTHING welded out of steel is hot dip galvanized, and then it has an expected lifespan of about 10 years before it starts to rust. all of the standard meter bases I install are made from stainless steel, and they usually don't rust out. cast aluminum dissolves in about two years, and brass starts eroding in 5. worst case I saw was a foreclosure home where the electricians had installed a panel with an aluminum main bus - it was so pitted I had to replace it at only 6 months after the original installation. View Attachment this house is less than 10 years old View AttachmentView Attachmentsame light - 2 days difference. fortunately they want ed them to do this. This is an exception. The VW Golf-1 (Rabbit in the US) rusted very quickly. So when they had made the Golf-2, they made sure it will last. They had done a so good job that most Golf-2 driving around are still without any significant stains. My Passat is also from this Era. Then they had figured out that people keep their cars for too long and made the Golf-3. This one looks good except for the wheelhouses but rots from inside out, especially the engine bay and suspension turns into rust quickly. The Passat I own is also pretty interesting. It depends on where it was built. All which came with a trailer hook were made in the major factories. For the rest, it was a gamble. Either you got it with rusty spots already fresh from the factory and it didn't last long or it lasts forever like the ones with the trailer hook. Mine has vandalism damage, the paint is scratched down to the pure metal and in some spots even beneath. Those scratches are 4 years old now and they had just turned into the colour of railroad tracks during the first year and don't change. The damage doesn't turn any worse. The only spot that keeps rusting worse and worse is around the filler cap. You really can make cars which don't rust even when the paint is damaged. But they don't and blame it all on the salt. Or why would a friend's Golf-2 be still without any real rust as well as my Passat and my dad's Golf-3 is less than half the age with only an eighth of miles on it and rusted apart beyond repairs? Also unlike the other vehicles, mine is sitting next to a real busy road and hit by salt regularly. Sometimes after a weekend, it has a thick crust of salt on its left side. |
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Post by the light works on May 30, 2014 15:19:50 GMT
when a car here rusts apart in half the time it takes over the first line of foothills, it probably isn't the fault of the car industry. you inlanders don't comprehend just how corrosive our atmosphere is, where I live. some things ARE a fault of the manufacturer - my overhead rack on my service truck is rusting out because the manufacturer made it out of mild steel - which would have been perfectly fine in the valley where they built it. here EVERYTHING welded out of steel is hot dip galvanized, and then it has an expected lifespan of about 10 years before it starts to rust. all of the standard meter bases I install are made from stainless steel, and they usually don't rust out. cast aluminum dissolves in about two years, and brass starts eroding in 5. worst case I saw was a foreclosure home where the electricians had installed a panel with an aluminum main bus - it was so pitted I had to replace it at only 6 months after the original installation. View Attachment this house is less than 10 years old View AttachmentView Attachmentsame light - 2 days difference. fortunately they want ed them to do this. This is an exception. The VW Golf-1 (Rabbit in the US) rusted very quickly. So when they had made the Golf-2, they made sure it will last. They had done a so good job that most Golf-2 driving around are still without any significant stains. My Passat is also from this Era. Then they had figured out that people keep their cars for too long and made the Golf-3. This one looks good except for the wheelhouses but rots from inside out, especially the engine bay and suspension turns into rust quickly. The Passat I own is also pretty interesting. It depends on where it was built. All which came with a trailer hook were made in the major factories. For the rest, it was a gamble. Either you got it with rusty spots already fresh from the factory and it didn't last long or it lasts forever like the ones with the trailer hook. Mine has vandalism damage, the paint is scratched down to the pure metal and in some spots even beneath. Those scratches are 4 years old now and they had just turned into the colour of railroad tracks during the first year and don't change. The damage doesn't turn any worse. The only spot that keeps rusting worse and worse is around the filler cap. You really can make cars which don't rust even when the paint is damaged. But they don't and blame it all on the salt. Or why would a friend's Golf-2 be still without any real rust as well as my Passat and my dad's Golf-3 is less than half the age with only an eighth of miles on it and rusted apart beyond repairs? Also unlike the other vehicles, mine is sitting next to a real busy road and hit by salt regularly. Sometimes after a weekend, it has a thick crust of salt on its left side. Certainly, there are factory defects out there. late 1970s General Motors pickups had the hoods painted without using the proper primer - so in the mid 80s, General Motors ended up giving away new properly painted pickup hoods to several thousand people after the hood and only the hood rusted out. but to get back to the question at hand: no, the aircraft did not have the roof come apart because it had jet engines hanging on the wings. it had the roof come off because it was assembled wrong, and the fact that it spent its entire service life in Hawaii was the reason why it came apart instead of another plane of the same model somewhere else. |
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Post by c64 on Jun 1, 2014 8:41:44 GMT
This is an exception. The VW Golf-1 (Rabbit in the US) rusted very quickly. So when they had made the Golf-2, they made sure it will last. They had done a so good job that most Golf-2 driving around are still without any significant stains. My Passat is also from this Era. Then they had figured out that people keep their cars for too long and made the Golf-3. This one looks good except for the wheelhouses but rots from inside out, especially the engine bay and suspension turns into rust quickly. The Passat I own is also pretty interesting. It depends on where it was built. All which came with a trailer hook were made in the major factories. For the rest, it was a gamble. Either you got it with rusty spots already fresh from the factory and it didn't last long or it lasts forever like the ones with the trailer hook. Mine has vandalism damage, the paint is scratched down to the pure metal and in some spots even beneath. Those scratches are 4 years old now and they had just turned into the colour of railroad tracks during the first year and don't change. The damage doesn't turn any worse. The only spot that keeps rusting worse and worse is around the filler cap. You really can make cars which don't rust even when the paint is damaged. But they don't and blame it all on the salt. Or why would a friend's Golf-2 be still without any real rust as well as my Passat and my dad's Golf-3 is less than half the age with only an eighth of miles on it and rusted apart beyond repairs? Also unlike the other vehicles, mine is sitting next to a real busy road and hit by salt regularly. Sometimes after a weekend, it has a thick crust of salt on its left side. Certainly, there are factory defects out there. late 1970s General Motors pickups had the hoods painted without using the proper primer - so in the mid 80s, General Motors ended up giving away new properly painted pickup hoods to several thousand people after the hood and only the hood rusted out. but to get back to the question at hand: no, the aircraft did not have the roof come apart because it had jet engines hanging on the wings. it had the roof come off because it was assembled wrong, and the fact that it spent its entire service life in Hawaii was the reason why it came apart instead of another plane of the same model somewhere else. If I remember correctly, the Hawaiian incident wasn't caused by wrong assembly, just by too many ascends and descends. Wasn't it Japan Airlines flight 123 which blew parts of its tail off caused by wrong assembly of a replacement part? |
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Post by the light works on Jun 1, 2014 15:03:39 GMT
Certainly, there are factory defects out there. late 1970s General Motors pickups had the hoods painted without using the proper primer - so in the mid 80s, General Motors ended up giving away new properly painted pickup hoods to several thousand people after the hood and only the hood rusted out. but to get back to the question at hand: no, the aircraft did not have the roof come apart because it had jet engines hanging on the wings. it had the roof come off because it was assembled wrong, and the fact that it spent its entire service life in Hawaii was the reason why it came apart instead of another plane of the same model somewhere else. If I remember correctly, the Hawaiian incident wasn't caused by wrong assembly, just by too many ascends and descends. Wasn't it Japan Airlines flight 123 which blew parts of its tail off caused by wrong assembly of a replacement part? the article YOU cited clearly said that the lesson learned was that the skin panels needed to be bonded together in addition to the riveting to prevent corrosion from forming inside the seams and weakening then to the point that they failed in flight. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 5, 2014 6:36:24 GMT
Six MILLION parts in a Space shuttle, if 0.1% of them "Fail", thats a lot of fail.....
One wrong rivet in an aeroplane can either be an annoying squeak in the pilots seat, in the passenger seat at the back of the plane, or a loose panel on the tail.
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Post by the light works on Jun 5, 2014 13:41:06 GMT
had a guy griping about how little it cost to run the shuttle when you broke it down to a cost per person figure. I pointed out in response that the entire shuttle fleet was pushing 30, they had determined they were getting very tired, and the government had decided they needed to turn the space taxi business over to the private sector. (that was a specifically calibrated comment as the guy has conservative tendencies)
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Post by jedimaster on Jan 2, 2019 14:52:38 GMT
I live in Huntsville Alabama near REDSTONE ARSENAL lots of Military R&D here. So we are at Ground Zero in case of a Nuclear war.
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Nuke Map
Jan 2, 2019 15:16:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by GTCGreg on Jan 2, 2019 15:16:04 GMT
I live in Huntsville Alabama near REDSTONE ARSENAL lots of Military R&D here. So we are at Ground Zero in case of a Nuclear war. But keep in mind, your area is probably more heavily defended. Lucky you. You get missiles coming at you from both sides. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 2, 2019 19:32:52 GMT
I live in Huntsville Alabama near REDSTONE ARSENAL lots of Military R&D here. So we are at Ground Zero in case of a Nuclear war. But keep in mind, your area is probably more heavily defended. Lucky you. You get missiles coming at you from both sides. good news is it'll be over quick... |
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