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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 15, 2014 18:45:53 GMT
This is part military and part TV/Film myth with elements of comics thrown in for good measure, so I opted for the random board.
I recall reading one of the article on the website Cracked a while back that dealt with various fictional weapons, and why they were probably more dangerous to the user than the intended target.
This passed though my mind for some reason and led to me wonder if some of these might not be testable on Mybusters, at least as far as if they might be practical weapons.
Now I'm not talking about weapons that are magical or require sci-fi technology. But fictional weapons that could be made in the real world.
Some examples;
The Klingon Bat'leth from Star Trek TNG onwards.
The Batrang, from the various incarnations of Batman.
*Addition*;
There are also the trick arrows used by Green Arrow, principally the boxing glove arrow which got posted on Disco a few times.
I've left out chainswords, less because I think this MB couldn't make one and more because it would be far to dangerous to have someone test it.
Can anyone else think of some fictional weapons along these lines that might be testable?
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Post by memeengine on Feb 16, 2014 0:06:03 GMT
An immediate problem that springs to mind in testing fictional weapons is finding someone sufficiently skilled in their use to make the test a valid one.
If you're simply testing whether a weapon is a danger to the user then there are plenty of real-world weapons that, in the hands of a novice, would fulfill that criteria. I imagine that what you're aiming for is the determination that a fictional weapon could never be mastered to a point where the user is not at constant risk. So not only would they need to make the weapons, they would need to develop training courses that would pinpoint the risks to the user and, if possible, invent techniques that counter those risks. They would then need to follow those courses to the point where they were considered to be adept in the weapon's use (if not a master)...which sounds like a lengthy process...especially if they're doing several different weapons.
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Post by the light works on Feb 16, 2014 14:39:22 GMT
I think the chainsword is a good candidate - it would take a robot to test with any degree of safety - but it is a popular enough meme that people should get an opportunity to see how impossible a chain sword would actually be.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 16, 2014 15:53:45 GMT
Actually you could compare comparable weapons against each other, if the user is equally skilled with both. (So someone who is totally unused to using a sword would be quite capable of testing the validity of the Bat'leth design)
It also depends on the nature of the testing, you can certainly test to see the speed at which they could move a blade (for example) to parry blows and measure the force of impact and damage it could do. You couldn't put on a 'real' fight unless both combatants were at least roughly equally skilled, but I'd guess that there are a lot of Trek fans out there who have a fair amount of experience with the Bat'leth. (It was designed by a martial arts expert for TNG, and I think that the techniques for using it were written down and practiced today)
The trick arrows are certainly testable, I think at least one of the build team is a reasonably skilled archer as the bow they have used before in some tests was provided by them - I *think* it was Tory's bow. In this case you are looking at how effective the projectile is, and it probably wouldn't take too long for them to come to a conclusion one way or another and they should be able to run such tests without outside help.
The chain-sword I would tend to dismiss on several levels, not just the danger of trying to use one. One of these would be the risk that someone might mess around with a chainsaw and kill themselves after watching such an episode.
The Batarang would certainly seem testable, as they could compare it against throwing stars and boomerangs (some of the Batarangs return to the thrower, others don't). The Cracked article claimed that the Batarang was a bad design because you'd remove a few fingers trying to catch it, ignoring the fact that they are largely disposable weapons and rarely return after hitting someone. They could also test to see if it could cut through ropes, which is a particular trick he get to see fairly often. (The same holds for an arrow, which is also testable. Not least because there were, as I recall, a number of arrow head designs intended to cut rope.)
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 16, 2014 16:56:42 GMT
Actually you could compare comparable weapons against each other, if the user is equally skilled with both. (So someone who is totally unused to using a sword would be quite capable of testing the validity of the The Batarang would certainly seem testable, as they could compare it against throwing stars and boomerangs (some of the Batarangs return to the thrower, others don't). The Cracked article claimed that the Batarang was a bad design because you'd remove a few fingers trying to catch it, ignoring the fact that they are largely disposable weapons and rarely return after hitting someone. They could also test to see if it could cut through ropes, which is a particular trick he get to see fairly often. (The same holds for an arrow, which is also testable. Not least because there were, as I recall, a number of arrow head designs intended to cut rope.) As I understand it even an ordinary Boomerang has that danger when returning to the user, unless you are skilled enough. A few years ago I was visiting one of my Brothers in Australia, and went to the Tjapukai Aboriginal Cutural Centre, where amongst other things there was a Boomwrang display. At one point the thrower demonstrating opened his hand to show the scars on the inside of his palm and fingers from an occasion when the retrieval went badly wrong.
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Post by the light works on Feb 16, 2014 17:34:34 GMT
boomerangs are typically not edged weapons - but still have an inherent risk. the other bust on the(x)arang myths is that if they hit the target, they don't keep going.
my thinking on the chain sword is that it will prove to be a total failure, thus reducing the risk.
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 16, 2014 18:59:06 GMT
boomerangs are typically not edged weapons - but still have an inherent risk. the other bust on the(x)arang myths is that if they hit the target, they don't keep going. my thinking on the chain sword is that it will prove to be a total failure, thus reducing the risk. Yes, but then Some fool trys to get one up on the MBs and create their own Chainsword and hurt themselves.
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Post by the light works on Feb 16, 2014 19:05:49 GMT
boomerangs are typically not edged weapons - but still have an inherent risk. the other bust on the(x)arang myths is that if they hit the target, they don't keep going. my thinking on the chain sword is that it will prove to be a total failure, thus reducing the risk. Yes, but then Some fool trys to get one up on the MBs and create their own Chainsword and hurt themselves. where do we draw the line? they can do that with anything.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 16, 2014 19:30:32 GMT
Not really.
The risk is not that someone might build one, rather than daddies little darlings might decide to take the chainsaw out of the garage and try it for themselves. Most of the stuff they'd done on MB, at least the more dangerous things, tend to require a degree of construction or equipment/components that the majority of viewers are unlikely to have sitting around. Here you'd have people who have chainsaws of varying sizes, so 'testing' would be a matter of firing it up and swinging it around and runs the very real risk of mutilation or death. (Or someone is going to claim that if they get hurt swinging a chainsaw around or otherwise hurt themselves using one. You know, rather than admit that the fault was theirs.)
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Post by the light works on Feb 16, 2014 19:54:27 GMT
Not really. The risk is not that someone might build one, rather than daddies little darlings might decide to take the chainsaw out of the garage and try it for themselves. Most of the stuff they'd done on MB, at least the more dangerous things, tend to require a degree of construction or equipment/components that the majority of viewers are unlikely to have sitting around. Here you'd have people who have chainsaws of varying sizes, so 'testing' would be a matter of firing it up and swinging it around and runs the very real risk of mutilation or death. (Or someone is going to claim that if they get hurt swinging a chainsaw around or otherwise hurt themselves using one. You know, rather than admit that the fault was theirs.) hence the robot - as well as actually hitting something too hard for it and throwing a chain - and hurting their robot. really, everybody who actually uses a chain saw knows that they don't slice - they chew.
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Post by mrfatso on Feb 16, 2014 21:48:48 GMT
I think you cannot underestimate some peoples enthusiasm for tinkering with things.
Someone could take this even further and try to make something that is equivalent to a 40k Chainsword or a Gears Lancer Bayonet.
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Post by the light works on Feb 16, 2014 21:58:21 GMT
I think you cannot underestimate some peoples enthusiasm for tinkering with things. Someone could take this even further and try to make something that is equivalent to a 40k Chainsword or a Gears Lancer Bayonet. just so - they WILL tinker whether they see it on mythbusters or not. the question is whether mythbusters will show them how to make one that actually works.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Feb 17, 2014 0:10:31 GMT
Ok I know this is in the realm of "Yah Right", but what about an EMP gun?
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Post by the light works on Feb 17, 2014 1:02:36 GMT
Ok I know this is in the realm of "Yah Right", but what about an EMP gun? other than the challenged of making an EMP, I like it. not sure the nuclear regulatory folks would want them using the traditional EMP generating procedure.
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Post by User Unavailable on Feb 17, 2014 4:13:25 GMT
Google videos for Bat'leth. You will find plenty of video of them "in use" for training purposes. Heck, there are even festivals and contests where "Klingons" gather for competition with the Bat'leth.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 18, 2014 7:50:14 GMT
No, the question/point is that someone stupid enough to try it at home can't turn around and point their remaining finger at Mythbusters when something bad happens.
A bigger concern is that MB has a fair number of kid viewers (even though its not a kids show), and a chainsaw is something those kids might well have access to at home. Duelling with a chainsaw might be something kids might decide to do because it looks fun, and even if they don't fire the thing up they could still be hurt as a result.
This is different from most things they test, in that someone could pick up and 'test' this at home on the spur of the moment. Rather than having to build/buy things that allows time for them to realise the dangers, be told of them or be stopped by someone who realises how dangerous what they want to do really is.
Yeap, and some of those people are martial arts experts to some degree. It wouldn't be all that difficult to get help from various Star Trek fan clubs in the SF area. Heck, they could find a few hundred people the next time they go to Com-Con. All they'd have to do is throw a rare Worf Action figure into the crowd and talk to the survivors....
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Post by the light works on Feb 18, 2014 14:44:25 GMT
No, the question/point is that someone stupid enough to try it at home can't turn around and point their remaining finger at Mythbusters when something bad happens. A bigger concern is that MB has a fair number of kid viewers (even though its not a kids show), and a chainsaw is something those kids might well have access to at home. Duelling with a chainsaw might be something kids might decide to do because it looks fun, and even if they don't fire the thing up they could still be hurt as a result. This is different from most things they test, in that someone could pick up and 'test' this at home on the spur of the moment. Rather than having to build/buy things that allows time for them to realise the dangers, be told of them or be stopped by someone who realises how dangerous what they want to do really is. Yeap, and some of those people are martial arts experts to some degree. It wouldn't be all that difficult to get help from various Star Trek fan clubs in the SF area. Heck, they could find a few hundred people the next time they go to Com-Con. All they'd have to do is throw a rare Worf Action figure into the crowd and talk to the survivors.... and Mythbusters lawyers can point right back and say "just as we told you it would." and I suspect that given Adam's fondness for Cons, they won't have to go to that much effort.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 18, 2014 17:10:35 GMT
Ok I know this is in the realm of "Yah Right", but what about an EMP gun? other than the challenged of making an EMP, I like it. not sure the nuclear regulatory folks would want them using the traditional EMP generating procedure. You could get a small EMP pulse using microwaves or vacuum tubes. Come to think of it if they look at this particular idea and decide that it viable (depending on exactly how small something would have to be to be considered as a 'gun') they could always spin off the original idea to cover myths about the effect an EMP actually has on electronics. Such as it frying unshielded electric circuits entirely. They inadvertently got an EMP discharge when testing lightning myths, and one that was powerful enough to knock one of the cameras out. I can't, however, remember if the camera was totalled or just knocked out for a few moments. What about the HUGE swords beloved of video game developers? Great-swords were certainly real, but how large could you really make a sword before it is effectively useless in a fight? There is the Chakram, as seen in the TV series Xena; Warrior Princess (it is a real weapon apparently, but most viewers probably would not be aware of this). Might be a good companion to the Batarang. I think this has potential, so lets see what other ideas we could come up with.
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Post by the light works on Feb 18, 2014 18:47:27 GMT
other than the challenged of making an EMP, I like it. not sure the nuclear regulatory folks would want them using the traditional EMP generating procedure. You could get a small EMP pulse using microwaves or vacuum tubes. Come to think of it if they look at this particular idea and decide that it viable (depending on exactly how small something would have to be to be considered as a 'gun') they could always spin off the original idea to cover myths about the effect an EMP actually has on electronics. Such as it frying unshielded electric circuits entirely. They inadvertently got an EMP discharge when testing lightning myths, and one that was powerful enough to knock one of the cameras out. I can't, however, remember if the camera was totalled or just knocked out for a few moments. What about the HUGE swords beloved of video game developers? Great-swords were certainly real, but how large could you really make a sword before it is effectively useless in a fight? There is the Chakram, as seen in the TV series Xena; Warrior Princess (it is a real weapon apparently, but most viewers probably would not be aware of this). Might be a good companion to the Batarang. I think this has potential, so lets see what other ideas we could come up with. Greatswords are a great idea. one of the weapons I fought with in the SCA was a greatsword - 6 feet long, and probably around 5 pounds. (and I was told that it was very close in weight and balance to an actual museum artifact one of my friends had gotten the joy of handling.) it was pretty functional - however, I have seen swords in stories fabled to weigh as much as 40 pounds. having grown up in a garden center, I know what 40 pounds is - and I certainly wouldn't be willing to put a handle on it and wave it around. similarly, those monster swords shown in video games are certainly more bulk and windage than I want to fiddle with. Attachment Deletedon a similar note - my gear weighed in at around 45 pounds, complete. it was very rare to have anyone with gear weighing over 60-80 pounds, even for full steel.
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 18, 2014 19:11:32 GMT
Any chance you can remember or find out which stories have such swords? MB usually like to know the source of a myth/story.
In this case it would be helpful to know any stories and information about great-swords.
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