|
|
Post by silverdragon on Mar 30, 2014 8:48:03 GMT
I know it sounds almost too stupid to go into, but is Hay and straw fireproof?...
Here is the explanation, modern building methods are investigating OLD building methods, and they have "Worked out" that by the time you lime-plaster the inside and outside of a wall that is constructed of Straw bales, that wall has been compacted enough by the weight of the bales above, and other building materials at the top of the wall, roofing etc, that once its covered, there is no space in there for Air or Oxygen, and therefore, its Fireproof... it just wont burn....
Ok, so that sounds a little plausible, but how much.
I cant see how it will remain "Fireproof" in a good house fire.
Take an average interior, either historical or modern, and that will burn...
If you have a wooden construction roof, again, combustible.
By the time you get all that alight in a usual scenario of a house fire, will it spread to the walls....
And just how much heat on a lime plaster wall will it take to catch a fire to the outside of that straw bale...
Saying a straw bale is fireproof to me is like saying a wooden log is fireproof... neither burn from the inside, but the both burn well from the outside.
So can a Straw bale construction wall be put to the test against a wooden built wall, both with the same coverings, and see which burns better/faster....
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Mar 30, 2014 14:06:32 GMT
Interesting.
Do you have any links or sources for this? (The Shows Researchers LOVE links)
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Mar 30, 2014 15:46:47 GMT
I like it and it could be readily expanded to other types of fire resistant construction. (I.E. lightweight steel stud framing)
the other side of the coin is - hay and straw storage is considered to be effectively impossible to extinguish without suffering a total loss. - you can't get enough water on it to cool it without ruining it, and if you leave it in a pile, you then have a spontaneous combustion risk.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cybermortis on Mar 30, 2014 16:56:30 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Mar 31, 2014 8:22:23 GMT
Glad you found them... All I have is watching some shows on TV, those that like to get under the skin of people who build it themselves?... I can see arguments for and against both sides. TLW, whats your opinion?... you didnt make it clear....  Ok, so, yes, I know, once a hay stack gets a fire in it, goodbye.... But if you smothered the outside with a plaster of some kind?... How much does that have to be intact to prevent fire?.. would four sides of a cube be enough, would any slight crack be a risk?... |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Mar 31, 2014 14:14:16 GMT
Glad you found them... All I have is watching some shows on TV, those that like to get under the skin of people who build it themselves?... I can see arguments for and against both sides. TLW, whats your opinion?... you didnt make it clear.... Ok, so, yes, I know, once a hay stack gets a fire in it, goodbye.... But if you smothered the outside with a plaster of some kind?... How much does that have to be intact to prevent fire?.. would four sides of a cube be enough, would any slight crack be a risk?... It strikes me as another case of disposable construction; as in, if the fire gets into the structure, expect to rebuild. I would expect it to have equivalent fire resistance to lightweight wood frame construction with plaster or sheetrock on the inside, and plaster or Hardie on the outside. certainly more (exterior) fireproof than our classic cedar shingles over tar paper over wood houses - and more interior fireproof than our wood paneled trailer houses - but still not going to be a safety bunker in the event of a fire. the one from here that I am interested to see is the lightweight steel - which proponents bill as absolutely fireproof through lack of anything to burn. but they don't consider that I have seen pictures of those structures after a fire...  |
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Apr 1, 2014 8:17:13 GMT
Agreed, but, I suppose its down to where you draw a line....
If as you say its against something like tar over paper, well, just how much gunpowder do you put on a match....
Against steel, of course, the steel wins...
Steel after a burn, I have experience, and I can tell you the steel will twist and melt, dependant on how fierce the combustible material around that steel burns....
As in, a [box]trailer went up, and the oil and grease in the wooden bed of that trailer, the roof that was Fibreglass, the pallets that were containing boxed goods, all made a mess of the trailer....
But the doors were sill good.....
So, just what is [fireproof] and whet is [fire resistant]
So we would have to get to build say two or three different structures of other conventional builds, wood frame with wood side and shingle covering, wood frame and brick, and just brick with wooden fixtures (Windows doors and the like?...) with a wood frame tiled or slated roof , and wood floors/ceiling etc.
Compare that to the burn rate of a straw walled house over a timber frame....
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Apr 1, 2014 14:54:34 GMT
Agreed, but, I suppose its down to where you draw a line.... If as you say its against something like tar over paper, well, just how much gunpowder do you put on a match.... Against steel, of course, the steel wins... Steel after a burn, I have experience, and I can tell you the steel will twist and melt, dependant on how fierce the combustible material around that steel burns.... As in, a [box]trailer went up, and the oil and grease in the wooden bed of that trailer, the roof that was Fibreglass, the pallets that were containing boxed goods, all made a mess of the trailer.... But the doors were sill good..... So, just what is [fireproof] and whet is [fire resistant] So we would have to get to build say two or three different structures of other conventional builds, wood frame with wood side and shingle covering, wood frame and brick, and just brick with wooden fixtures (Windows doors and the like?...) with a wood frame tiled or slated roof , and wood floors/ceiling etc. Compare that to the burn rate of a straw walled house over a timber frame.... here, the official term is "fire rated" to head off just that sort of squabble. for example, if a new house has a garage as part of the structure, the wall in between must be a one hour fire rated wall. - meaning if there is a fire in the garage, it will be one hour before the fire comes into the house. - assuming you don't open the door and invite it in. |
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Apr 1, 2014 14:58:35 GMT
I envision three tests: whether you do all three or not is optional.
1: breach test: build a wall section to the standard of construction for that material, and apply a consistent fire load to it until it breaches.
2: structure test: build a wall section as above and put a roof load on it - apply a consistent fire load to it until it collapses.
3: self-extinguishing test: I don't know exactly how the material manufacturers run their tests - but our engineered timbers are rated to not support combustion beyond 1/4" penetration when not exposed to direct flame impingement.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Apr 1, 2014 14:59:42 GMT
(and here, timber frame and wood frame are different construction methods. timber frame is post and beam construction, and wood frame is 2Xn lumber, officially known as lightweight wood framing)
|
|
|
|
Post by silverdragon on Apr 6, 2014 10:28:48 GMT
And what are the exact dimensions of "A bit of four-by-two"?...
Well, they can be anything you want.
Four-by-two is used to denote anything of suitable strength.
Timber frame is anything that is built where a frame goes up first, in Timber, then is filled with other materials. And that includes Wood.
Wood frame is just the same as above, but may include the internal framing of a house after a brick wall has been put up to keep the weather out....
So a wooden frame is installed inside a brick built house, but a wooden house is built with a timber frame, where timber is anything rough sawn, and wood is what it is made of.
And if that didnt confuse you, read it again until it does...
Then add in that a timber frame may have Brick walls inserted in the gaps in the timber.
And a slate roof.
So what do you put in first, the brick wall or the windows.
Chicken or egg time, when you build a wall with windows in, what comes first, the gap or the wall.
Do you build a gap into the wall, or frame the gap with bricks....
And I have seen that one descend into arguments that last for weeks.
Just dont ask about the doors....
Or the Ducks.
|
|
|
|
Post by the light works on Apr 7, 2014 5:18:04 GMT
And what are the exact dimensions of "A bit of four-by-two"?... Well, they can be anything you want. Four-by-two is used to denote anything of suitable strength. Timber frame is anything that is built where a frame goes up first, in Timber, then is filled with other materials. And that includes Wood. Wood frame is just the same as above, but may include the internal framing of a house after a brick wall has been put up to keep the weather out.... So a wooden frame is installed inside a brick built house, but a wooden house is built with a timber frame, where timber is anything rough sawn, and wood is what it is made of. And if that didnt confuse you, read it again until it does... Then add in that a timber frame may have Brick walls inserted in the gaps in the timber. And a slate roof. So what do you put in first, the brick wall or the windows. Chicken or egg time, when you build a wall with windows in, what comes first, the gap or the wall. Do you build a gap into the wall, or frame the gap with bricks.... And I have seen that one descend into arguments that last for weeks. Just dont ask about the doors.... Or the Ducks. 2X4 is 1½" by 3½" and shrinking slowly. here, anything where the structure is built out of things you dig up out of the ground or make out of concrete is masonry, or Ordinary construction. if there isn't any structural wood, it is either noncombustible or fire protected noncombustible. - the difference being the structural members in noncombustible construction are insulated with fire resistant material to give about another half hour before there is significant heat damage to the structure. (noncombustible is usually heavy steel framing, or steel reinforced concrete.) |
|
