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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 8, 2014 3:21:55 GMT
Finally got to see this one in the US and it was worth the wait. Two new episodes in one night = BONUS!
Traffic Jamming (Confirmed): One car stepping on its brakes at an inopportune time CAN create a traffic jam. Seems logical.
Lane Weave (Busted): You may get to your destination a little faster by weaving through traffic, but the stress isn't worth it.
Crossroads Conundrum (Confirmed): This is the test we've been discussing as 'Roundabout vs. 4-way Stop'. Roundabouts are more efficient than 4-way stops? Time for the US to adopt a new traffic pattern?
Driving vs. Flying (Plausible): Under 400 miles, driving is faster than flying? Kari & Grant's car pulled up to the destination only 7 minutes after Tori. So, with different conditions, it may have turned out differently.
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Post by WhutScreenName on Aug 8, 2014 14:07:15 GMT
Lane Weave - - - Clearly the stress was greater when weaving, HOWEVER, they were intentionally weaving to try and prove which was better. I think the normal person would probably do a combination of the two, at least I do. I tend to only weave when I can see major openings and then will stick with that lane (even when it goes slower) until I see another large opening where I can get way ahead. I don't weave nearly as much as the team was.
It was a valid test and I agree with their results, but think that only the most aggressive drivers change lanes as often as they were.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 8, 2014 14:33:37 GMT
I have to agree with you there. I think intentional lane changes would be way more stressful than more strategic lane changes. Would less (or more strategic) lane changes have had an effect on the results?
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Post by Antigone68104 on Aug 8, 2014 14:51:44 GMT
I tend to find a lane and stay in it unless I need to change for some reason (such as road work). I had to wonder why, on the first test, they didn't have admitted lane-changer Grant drive -- someone used to that technique might not stress out as much as Kari did.
I agree that the drive vs fly test could have gone either way with different conditions. Either the editing of the drive footage was sloppy, or they pulled over a few extra times to swap drivers; that in itself could have used up seven minutes.
Personally, I don't expect to see an increase in roundabouts until drivers who never dealt with them leave the roads. I was watching with my aunt and uncle. Her response to the conclusion was basically that she didn't care, roundabouts were evil and we should stick with four-way stops. But she's in her mid-70s and never dealt with roundabouts until she was an older driver ... and she turned in her drivers license a few years ago because she decided her eyesight wasn't up to the task any more.
I'd really like to know if their test drivers were completely unfamiliar with roundabouts, or if they had some experience before the practice laps. If those were novice roundabout drivers, then the test results are even more impressive.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 8, 2014 14:59:43 GMT
What would have been the results for a 4-way stop with lights instead of stop signs? They mentioned it, but did not actually test it (most likely due to time constaints)
On a side note, I thought the 'traffic cop' version was extraneous as that rarely happens in everyday life.
Then again, I thought the design of their roundabout was a little off. For the roundabouts that I have used, traffic enters almost parallel to the flow, not by turning in.
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Post by blazerrose on Aug 9, 2014 9:20:36 GMT
The ones we have in Oregon look a lot like what Adam and Jamie devised. Attachment Deleted
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 9, 2014 12:25:13 GMT
The ones we have in Oregon look a lot like what Adam and Jamie devised. View AttachmentLooks like a two lane roundabout: (1) an outer entry/exit lane and (2) an inner travel lane. The roundabouts I've used have been single lane only, which creates a bigger mess.
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Post by the light works on Aug 9, 2014 16:40:22 GMT
The ones we have in Oregon look a lot like what Adam and Jamie devised. View Attachmentnot in my part of Oregon. the one we have here that is not in a parking lot is just an obstruction in what was originally a four way stop. - the radius is just large enough that I don't quite have to run up on the sidewalk to get my work truck through it. (I will shamelessly cut the corner if there isn't another car there)
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Post by the light works on Aug 10, 2014 14:02:22 GMT
the extrapolation I would have loved to see done on the show - we did it and someone did it on the twitter feed - is that the #1 cause of abrupt braking on the freeway is not inattention - it is an inappropriate lane change. I would like to see - though I know it is logistically impossible - what would happen to average traffic speeds if NOBODY lane-hopped
I would also have liked to see a centered top view of the traffic ripple circle to see if the ripple migrated around the circle or if it was essentially a standing wave - just from my own curiosity.
statistically speaking, I am trained that on a road at maximum traffic capacity or more, stopping traffic will cause a ripple that will last an hour for every minute the traffic is stopped. (maximum capacity defined as the greatest density at which traffic will still flow at the speed limit)
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 11, 2014 13:20:02 GMT
the extrapolation I would have loved to see done on the show - we did it and someone did it on the twitter feed - is that the #1 cause of abrupt braking on the freeway is not inattention - it is an inappropriate lane change. I would like to see - though I know it is logistically impossible - what would happen to average traffic speeds if NOBODY lane-hopped I would also have liked to see a centered top view of the traffic ripple circle to see if the ripple migrated around the circle or if it was essentially a standing wave - just from my own curiosity. statistically speaking, I am trained that on a road at maximum traffic capacity or more, stopping traffic will cause a ripple that will last an hour for every minute the traffic is stopped. (maximum capacity defined as the greatest density at which traffic will still flow at the speed limit) Essentially, could it be lane weavers creating the traffic jam? I could see that happening. As for a jam in the center lane effecting the whole highway: I think it goes back to the lane weavers. When the center lane gets jammed, drivers jump to other lanes, which will impede traffic among all the lanes. I agree that an overhead view of a traffic jam would be interesting to look at as far as finding the cause and analyzing the aftermath. I also think it would be a really cool image. Not sure about the one minute of stoppage = one hour of problems, though. Worth testing?
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Post by the light works on Aug 11, 2014 14:02:09 GMT
the extrapolation I would have loved to see done on the show - we did it and someone did it on the twitter feed - is that the #1 cause of abrupt braking on the freeway is not inattention - it is an inappropriate lane change. I would like to see - though I know it is logistically impossible - what would happen to average traffic speeds if NOBODY lane-hopped I would also have liked to see a centered top view of the traffic ripple circle to see if the ripple migrated around the circle or if it was essentially a standing wave - just from my own curiosity. statistically speaking, I am trained that on a road at maximum traffic capacity or more, stopping traffic will cause a ripple that will last an hour for every minute the traffic is stopped. (maximum capacity defined as the greatest density at which traffic will still flow at the speed limit) Essentially, could it be lane weavers creating the traffic jam? I could see that happening. As for a jam in the center lane effecting the whole highway: I think it goes back to the lane weavers. When the center lane gets jammed, drivers jump to other lanes, which will impede traffic among all the lanes. I agree that an overhead view of a traffic jam would be interesting to look at as far as finding the cause and analyzing the aftermath. I also think it would be a really cool image. Not sure about the one minute of stoppage = one hour of problems, though. Worth testing? I'm not 100% certain I cot the divisions correct - it could be 10 minutes of stoppage. but this was given to us as a recorded statistic by the department of transportation, and what I have seen bears it out insomuch as traffic conditions allow. (if the traffic density drops below maximum capacity the jam dies for lack of traffic) but we have a couple of bottlenecks in my hometown (one of which is PROMISED to us to no longer be a bottleneck by 2016) if one person stops to make a left turn, the ripple lasts for quite some time, and there have been many times I have had to stop at a green light, just because the people in front of me haven't started yet.
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 14, 2014 8:22:20 GMT
Sarcasm on, "How to make friends and influence people", sarcasm off.... well, for now anyway....
Lane weavers are hated, despised, will be actively prevented by some people (Inc. Me when it is safe to do so and to prevent them from doing something UN-Safe) and generally get themselves a bad name. I mean just why?... To get one car ahead. This isnt a race track. I followed a lane weaver for several miles, he was trying his damnedest to get ahead, through bank holiday jams that were pure weight of traffic going nowhere fast.
OK, Maybe "Mild sarcasm on"?....
So Thats several miles before I lost sight (and interest)due to other traffic blocking my view and demanding my attention. He was the twit in the BMW, I was hauling 40 odd ton, that was on a major motorway, I think I was averaging 20mph?.... I think maybe he was averaging 21mph?... he was in my sight for 20 mins to half hour, changing lanes, tailgating, getting beeped at, chewing his steering wheel, getting red under the collar, getting filmed by passengers with mobiles, shouting stress inducing stupidity at the world in general, getting shouted back at for being a dickins, using part of the hard shoulder to pass a particularly unimpressed wagon (Not me that time...) and just being a prat.
He was late. I was getting paid by the hour, and looking forward to the next hour, as it would be overtime, time-and-a-half... I had three hours driving left at normal speed, so maybe four at this speed, more money?...
So who is the looser there then?....
Traffic happens, find a way to enjoy it, otherwise, the plastic on your steering wheel tastes awful. Get a good radio station, preferably one that doesnt update you every 20 seconds on how long the queue is.
Karma is a {female canine}..... By the time I got to the source of one tailback, they were just re-opening the road. The twits who had gone out of their way to get to the front first had been diverted around the incident and sent via side roads... I was reliably informed that the diversion they were sent on would put an extra two hours on their journey. Laugh?... No, not me, honestly, I wouldnt do that would I?.....
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 14, 2014 8:36:54 GMT
So why do they send a truck the whole length of England when there are viable Air links. Because if its on the road, its going to get there a hell of a lot earlier than trying to arrange air freight.
I have a challenge for OVER 400 miles....
Right, we need to get to "Certain city" as soon as possible, I will jump in a car right now, you start getting air travel sorted. The person flying then has to find a plane going that way, find which local airport it flies from, book a seat, and get there that way. Say the decision is made at 6pm for a meeting the next day at 9am....
Its all very well knowing you have a flight booked for 6am the next morning.... you may just make that meeting, as its a hours public transport from the airport that end.... Thats the first flight you can get... I however can do a re-eye and get a good nights sleep waiting for you.
But saying that, if I can work out an overnight flight and car hire for a reasonable price that is maybe less than the cost of fuelling the car for a 1,000 mile trip there and back, absolutely right I am doing the aeroplane....
And if the meeting is that important, they can get their backsides here.
I dunno, if it involves a thousand mile travel just for a meeting where to be quite honest all you are going to do is agree its going to be painted green, was it REALLY worth it?....
I just did a "Skype" meeting, I got as much information as I could possibly expect, and then more, because they said they could check back and send me video replies via email on certain questions I asked. No "We will get back to you" that never gets there, two hours later I had mail?.... Thats a firm "Going forwards", I think it will be good to work for them. They assured me they dont do "Risk", they pride themselves on safety.
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Post by the light works on Aug 14, 2014 14:01:06 GMT
So why do they send a truck the whole length of England when there are viable Air links. Because if its on the road, its going to get there a hell of a lot earlier than trying to arrange air freight. I have a challenge for OVER 400 miles.... Right, we need to get to "Certain city" as soon as possible, I will jump in a car right now, you start getting air travel sorted. The person flying then has to find a plane going that way, find which local airport it flies from, book a seat, and get there that way. Say the decision is made at 6pm for a meeting the next day at 9am.... Its all very well knowing you have a flight booked for 6am the next morning.... you may just make that meeting, as its a hours public transport from the airport that end.... Thats the first flight you can get... I however can do a re-eye and get a good nights sleep waiting for you. But saying that, if I can work out an overnight flight and car hire for a reasonable price that is maybe less than the cost of fuelling the car for a 1,000 mile trip there and back, absolutely right I am doing the aeroplane.... And if the meeting is that important, they can get their backsides here. I dunno, if it involves a thousand mile travel just for a meeting where to be quite honest all you are going to do is agree its going to be painted green, was it REALLY worth it?.... I just did a "Skype" meeting, I got as much information as I could possibly expect, and then more, because they said they could check back and send me video replies via email on certain questions I asked. No "We will get back to you" that never gets there, two hours later I had mail?.... Thats a firm "Going forwards", I think it will be good to work for them. They assured me they dont do "Risk", they pride themselves on safety. so on a short notice haul, the distance is even longer? that is reasonable.
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Post by the light works on Aug 14, 2014 14:04:20 GMT
Sarcasm on, "How to make friends and influence people", sarcasm off.... well, for now anyway.... Lane weavers are hated, despised, will be actively prevented by some people (Inc. Me when it is safe to do so and to prevent them from doing something UN-Safe) and generally get themselves a bad name. I mean just why?... To get one car ahead. This isnt a race track. I followed a lane weaver for several miles, he was trying his damnedest to get ahead, through bank holiday jams that were pure weight of traffic going nowhere fast. OK, Maybe "Mild sarcasm on"?.... So Thats several miles before I lost sight (and interest)due to other traffic blocking my view and demanding my attention. He was the twit in the BMW, I was hauling 40 odd ton, that was on a major motorway, I think I was averaging 20mph?.... I think maybe he was averaging 21mph?... he was in my sight for 20 mins to half hour, changing lanes, tailgating, getting beeped at, chewing his steering wheel, getting red under the collar, getting filmed by passengers with mobiles, shouting stress inducing stupidity at the world in general, getting shouted back at for being a dickins, using part of the hard shoulder to pass a particularly unimpressed wagon (Not me that time...) and just being a prat. He was late. I was getting paid by the hour, and looking forward to the next hour, as it would be overtime, time-and-a-half... I had three hours driving left at normal speed, so maybe four at this speed, more money?... So who is the looser there then?.... Traffic happens, find a way to enjoy it, otherwise, the plastic on your steering wheel tastes awful. Get a good radio station, preferably one that doesnt update you every 20 seconds on how long the queue is. Karma is a {female canine}..... By the time I got to the source of one tailback, they were just re-opening the road. The twits who had gone out of their way to get to the front first had been diverted around the incident and sent via side roads... I was reliably informed that the diversion they were sent on would put an extra two hours on their journey. Laugh?... No, not me, honestly, I wouldnt do that would I?..... the ones that $%$# me the #$%%^$ off are the ones who think they have a right to force themselves into the queue ahead of you. if one lane is going faster than the other, I don't begrudge people shifting to the faster lane. however, If I am waiting in line in the faster lane, which is only marginally faster, I do begrudge people crowbarring themselves into my "stopping distance" cushion.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 14, 2014 15:30:20 GMT
the ones that $%$# me the #$%%^$ off are the ones who think they have a right to force themselves into the queue ahead of you. if one lane is going faster than the other, I don't begrudge people shifting to the faster lane. however, If I am waiting in line in the faster lane, which is only marginally faster, I do begrudge people crowbarring themselves into my "stopping distance" cushion. My favorite ones are the individuals who choose to crowbar themselves in with no consideration torwards using their blinker and then flip the bird at you after you blow your horn at them.
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Post by the light works on Aug 14, 2014 15:48:00 GMT
the ones that $%$# me the #$%%^$ off are the ones who think they have a right to force themselves into the queue ahead of you. if one lane is going faster than the other, I don't begrudge people shifting to the faster lane. however, If I am waiting in line in the faster lane, which is only marginally faster, I do begrudge people crowbarring themselves into my "stopping distance" cushion. My favorite ones are the individuals who choose to crowbar themselves in with no consideration torwards using their blinker and then flip the bird at you after you blow your horn at them. then the true winners are the ones who do it in front of my fire apparatus when I am doing code 1 response to an emergency. (our SOGs recommend not going code 3 when running solo, as two pairs of eyes watch for idiots better than one, and for an incident at the other end of the district usually gets code 1 until it is confirmed bad) so far I've only had one time when someone did it just before command authorized all units to increase to code 3.
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Post by the light works on Aug 14, 2014 15:50:15 GMT
to bring it more to traffic tricks, a great follow up would be to check what lane choice is better in a more urban setting - I.E. city streets or a freeway segment with a lot of on and off ramps. - I've seen places where the right lane (left lane for those who don't drive on the right side of the road) moves faster than the "fast" lane.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Aug 14, 2014 15:59:17 GMT
to bring it more to traffic tricks, a great follow up would be to check what lane choice is better in a more urban setting - I.E. city streets or a freeway segment with a lot of on and off ramps. - I've seen places where the right lane (left lane for those who don't drive on the right side of the road) moves faster than the "fast" lane. Perhaps the physics of that is because the right lane (left for others) is the exit lane, so the right lane will lose cars along the way?
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Post by the light works on Aug 14, 2014 16:10:16 GMT
to bring it more to traffic tricks, a great follow up would be to check what lane choice is better in a more urban setting - I.E. city streets or a freeway segment with a lot of on and off ramps. - I've seen places where the right lane (left lane for those who don't drive on the right side of the road) moves faster than the "fast" lane. Perhaps the physics of that is because the right lane (left for others) is the exit lane, so the right lane will lose cars along the way? I'm guessing it is a combination of that and reactionary people in the "fast lane is faster" mode - like the ones with the "big trucks are slow, must pass" mindset.
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