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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2015 3:09:22 GMT
do we have hall of fame submissions? we have a few video game ideas out there. spoiler alert.
First up: Doom - or, how much crap can you really carry and still function? did we miss that? how did we miss that?
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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2015 3:12:44 GMT
second up: fruit ninja. can you actually slice fruits as easily as the game?
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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2015 3:16:12 GMT
first win: bo-ken cam.
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Post by breesfan on Feb 1, 2015 21:22:01 GMT
I liked this one but I thought the slicing of fruits was more fun. Adam had a blast, don't you guys think?
It does make sense a younger more athletic guy would breeze through the level he did but imagine if it was four or five levels with stairs, I bet he would get tired easily.
Do you think Adam had a blast shooting up bad guys or slicing up fruits?
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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2015 22:06:01 GMT
I liked this one but I thought the slicing of fruits was more fun. Adam had a blast, don't you guys think? It does make sense a younger more athletic guy would breeze through the level he did but imagine if it was four or five levels with stairs, I bet he would get tired easily. Do you think Adam had a blast shooting up bad guys or slicing up fruits? Adam and Jamie both took a more conservative approach to the doom level than their "pro" did. this made it kind of surprising there was more difference in their times than the pro's time.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 2, 2015 0:01:27 GMT
I used to play an obscene amount of "Doom" back in the 1990s, and so I spotted a few things that the team missed if we were going off of the classic game instead of the remake.
Classic game:
1. The main character (either "Doomguy", "Buddy Dacotes", or "Flynn Taggart" depending upon which canonical source you're reading) is a sergeant in the United States Marine Corps. Not only would he have load-bearing equipment available to him, he'd also likely have some training in proper load distribution.
2. In the classic game, the backpacks come pre-filled with ammo. In the test, the backpack was empty and you had to find the ammo containers.
3. You don't pick up and keep the medical kits. If your health goes below 100%, then you can touch one - essentially consuming it - and get a boost up either to 100% or the max provided by the kit. (Stimpacks give back 10%, and are so named because they're literally boxes containing stimulant-filled hypodermics. Medkits give back 25%, and are more traditional first aid kits. Berzerker packs contain an ungodly amount of stimulants, such that you go all the way to 100% and you do extra damage with your fists, but at the cost of your vision being screwed up; you see everything with a red tint until it wears off.)
4. In the original game, you could pick up body armor and you have a set of brass knuckles at the start of the game. That's more weight, plus the awkwardness of donning the armor. The icon for the armor is a large plate vest (which appears to be based on hockey torso protection) and a somewhat heavy helmet.
5. Among the weapons were a rocket launcher and the ever-infamous BFG 9000. I didn't see any dummy weapons big enough to represent either weapon.
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Post by the light works on Feb 2, 2015 0:53:03 GMT
I used to play an obscene amount of "Doom" back in the 1990s, and so I spotted a few things that the team missed if we were going off of the classic game instead of the remake. Classic game: 1. The main character (either "Doomguy", "Buddy Dacotes", or "Flynn Taggart" depending upon which canonical source you're reading) is a sergeant in the United States Marine Corps. Not only would he have load-bearing equipment available to him, he'd also likely have some training in proper load distribution. 2. In the classic game, the backpacks come pre-filled with ammo. In the test, the backpack was empty and you had to find the ammo containers. 3. You don't pick up and keep the medical kits. If your health goes below 100%, then you can touch one - essentially consuming it - and get a boost up either to 100% or the max provided by the kit. (Stimpacks give back 10%, and are so named because they're literally boxes containing stimulant-filled hypodermics. Medkits give back 25%, and are more traditional first aid kits. Berzerker packs contain an ungodly amount of stimulants, such that you go all the way to 100% and you do extra damage with your fists, but at the cost of your vision being screwed up; you see everything with a red tint until it wears off.)4. In the original game, you could pick up body armor and you have a set of brass knuckles at the start of the game. That's more weight, plus the awkwardness of donning the armor. The icon for the armor is a large plate vest (which appears to be based on hockey torso protection) and a somewhat heavy helmet. 5. Among the weapons were a rocket launcher and the ever-infamous BFG 9000. I didn't see any dummy weapons big enough to represent either weapon. I agree on the medpacks - and the ammo should also be disappearing from the equation as the guns are fired.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 2, 2015 2:00:26 GMT
Some enemies dropped ammo reloads.
Zombie soldiers dropped clips that you could use to reload your pistol and chain gun.
Zombie sergeants dropped shotguns. If you didn't have a shotgun already then you had one now, while subsequent shotguns were seemingly stripped of whatever ammo they had.
Zombie commandos dropped chain guns, which functioned just like the dropped shotguns.
As such, between this and ammo that was scattered about, you had ways to replenish as you went.
**
As far as Berzerker packs go -
Under normal circumstances, you'd have to punch a monster a few times for it to go down, even with one set of brass knuckles having a spike on it.
Once you're hyped up on a Berzerker pack, however, not only can you kill most of the weaker monsters in a single punch, a few of them explode. Instead of the normal "corpse" sprite you'd see, you instead see a generic pile of guts like what you'd get if you killed them with an explosion (like hitting them with a rocket launcher or blowing up an explosive barrel that they were standing next to).
Berserker packs (which look like black medkits) are the only one of the three medkits you can pick up while at 100% health or above, and the effect is instant (meaning that you consume the stimulants upon contacting the box).
**
Also -
There are three other accessories you can pick up which I forgot about.
1. Night Vision Goggles: these allow you to see in areas that are dark (or at least poorly-lit), but only temporarily (as if the batteries were weak to begin with). In the game, the effect is immediate, indicating that you put them on as soon as you touch them.
2. Radiation Suit: this one is also "you don it the minute you pick it up". The suit offers temporary protection against the toxic sludge that sometimes litters the floor in some levels (it's implied that the sludge eventually eats through it), and you see everything with a green tint when it's donned.
3. Navigational Computer: this GPS-like device (the sprite made it seem like the size of a laptop) would give you a complete map of the current level minus any hidden areas.
I would imagine that these would add to the weight and complexity.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 2, 2015 2:19:01 GMT
Anyway, basic story behind the Doom games (Doom I and Doom II) -
Your character is a sergeant in the USMC. While assigned to a peacekeeping mission, your CO makes a seriously bad judgement call that leads to a number of civilians being killed. You were opposed to the decision from the get-go, and when the aftermath happens you respond by beating him senseless.
For the crime of "assaulting a superior officer", you are essentially exiled to Phobos, where you serve as part of the small garrison protecting a government contractor known as the UAC (I want to say "Union Aerospace Corporation") who is attempting to set up colonies on both moons. Someone with the UAC crew finds a portal of some sort, and for whatever stupid reason fires it up. Thankfully, you were (for some reason - it varies by source) far enough removed from the site to avoid the initial onrush of demons through the portal.
Doom I - Knee Deep In The Dead: So far as you know, you're the last human being alive on Phobos. Your mission is to carve a path through the demonic hordes as you explore the moon for survivors and answers, especially since - as near as you can tell - Deimos warped out when the demons warped in.
Doom I - The Shores Of Hell: You kill (so far as you know) all of the demons on Phobos, but before they die they let their buddies on Deimos know you're coming. As such, when you found the warp gate to Deimos, they had an ambush waiting for you. Now down to just your pistol and brass knuckles again, you must make your way through Deimos in order to figure out what's going on. (Fortunately for you, it soon becomes obvious that the different classes of monster hate each other and will - in the absence of an enforcer - turn on each other at the slightest provocation.)
Doom I - Inferno: Well, you now know where Deimos is. It's floating right above Hell itself. Literally. Oh, and you were stupid enough to lower most of your gear down first when you tried to climb down on that rope, meaning that it was all stolen... so back to your pistol and brass knuckles as you try to make your way through the underworld.
Doom I - Thy Flesh Consumed: The good news is that you killed the demonic mastermind behind everything. The bad news is that it already sent an invasion force to Earth by the time you arrived, and so you must now clear out another part of the underworld to find a functional warp gate that will take you home.
Doom II - You're back, but your pet bunny - like so much of the planet - has now been reduced to demon chow. What's left of the American military command orders you to single-handedly clear out a space port so that the last remnants of humanity can flee (levels 1 - 7), and as a reward you find yourself "accidentally" left behind when everyone else evacuates. You decide to spend your last days killing demons (8 - 15, IIRC) when high command finally contacts you: they've found the main portal the demons used, and it's located in your home town. They need you to destroy it, then find and clear out the demon stronghold (rest of the game).
Some semi-official sequels were released after this, but DOOM II was the last (timeline-wise) officially-produced id creation before Resurrection rebooted the franchise.
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Post by blazerrose on Feb 2, 2015 7:59:34 GMT
I'm guessing that a number of you liked this episode. I was bored, unfortunately.
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Post by the light works on Feb 2, 2015 11:41:51 GMT
I'm guessing that a number of you liked this episode. I was bored, unfortunately. of the current season it definitely had the lowest science content and the most reliance on visuals. you might notice, I didn't have a whole lot to say in my initial commentary.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Feb 2, 2015 21:07:23 GMT
Had a chance to stream this when I was snowed in yesterday.
Official Disclaimer: I have played neither game. However, I've played tabletop RPGs for decades, and players "forgetting" about encumbrance go back at least that long. I honestly think Jamie's and Adam's tests might have been a little more accurate to the scenario; their MMA guest star wasn't being nearly as cautious.
It looked like both of the guys had fun with the Fruit Ninja setup, but did the chainsaw actually add anything to the test?
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Post by blazerrose on Feb 2, 2015 23:29:26 GMT
Gratuitous fruit annihilation.
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Post by OziRiS on Feb 5, 2015 7:19:29 GMT
Not much science content in this one, but it was still fun.
I do wonder, though... Why, when you need a so-called "professional", would you go for an MMA fighter and not a soldier? As a former soldier myself, I can tell you right now that there's no way I would have even tried to carry around that much stuff. It doesn't make any sense. And yes, the MMA guy may have been able to complete the level faster, but how many battles last only 4-8 minutes and then you can drop everything and be at complete peace?
I'd go for a handgun, the most effective rifle I could find (in this case "most effective" would be the one that shared ammo type with as many of the available weapons as possible and was easiest to handle and most accurate) and possibly a shotgun or something explosive to help open locked doors and such. Other than that, I'd just pick up the ammo and leave the weapons.
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Post by the light works on Feb 5, 2015 7:23:32 GMT
Not much science content in this one, but it was still fun. I do wonder, though... Why, when you need a so-called "professional", would you go for an MMA fighter and not a soldier? As a former soldier myself, I can tell you right now that there's no way I would have even tried to carry around that much stuff. It doesn't make any sense. And yes, the MMA guy may have been able to complete the level faster, but how many battles last only 4-8 minutes and then you can drop everything and be at complete peace? I'd go for a handgun, the most effective rifle I could find (in this case "most effective" would be the one that shared ammo type with as many of the available weapons as possible and was easiest to handle and most accurate) and possibly a shotgun or something explosive to help open locked doors and such. Other than that, I'd just pick up the ammo and leave the weapons. the point of it was that in the game, you can pick up everything and casually switch back and forth without it having any effect on your movement.
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Post by OziRiS on Feb 5, 2015 7:26:47 GMT
Not much science content in this one, but it was still fun. I do wonder, though... Why, when you need a so-called "professional", would you go for an MMA fighter and not a soldier? As a former soldier myself, I can tell you right now that there's no way I would have even tried to carry around that much stuff. It doesn't make any sense. And yes, the MMA guy may have been able to complete the level faster, but how many battles last only 4-8 minutes and then you can drop everything and be at complete peace? I'd go for a handgun, the most effective rifle I could find (in this case "most effective" would be the one that shared ammo type with as many of the available weapons as possible and was easiest to handle and most accurate) and possibly a shotgun or something explosive to help open locked doors and such. Other than that, I'd just pick up the ammo and leave the weapons. the point of it was that in the game, you can pick up everything and casually switch back and forth without it having any effect on your movement. And common sense says that's completely idiotic, which is also why some later game creators have set the limit to one sidearm, one rifle and a few grenades and other stuff. This test didn't prove anything other than a well-trained person can carry more crap faster than an untrained person.
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Post by WhutScreenName on Feb 5, 2015 19:55:58 GMT
They did say that the MMA fighter matched the description of the main Doom hero. Since the test they were doing was specifically related to that game, and the pro DID run it about the same speed, they were confirming (or at least plausible) the scenario provided.
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Post by OziRiS on Feb 5, 2015 23:12:04 GMT
They did say that the MMA fighter matched the description of the main Doom hero. Since the test they were doing was specifically related to that game, and the pro DID run it about the same speed, they were confirming (or at least plausible) the scenario provided. If you look at Ironhold's description of the character above, the MMA fighter might have resembled the hero in size and build, but the hero was a marine, not an MMA fighter. While MMA fighters may be trained to take a lot, they're not trained for war. What I also noted was that while he may have finished the level in conciderably less time than Adam and Jamie did, he was tired, out of breath and couldn't wait to get all that stuff off of him when he was done. IIRC, he commented that some of the slings were digging into his neck. It's great that he could do one level in the time that he did it in, but again, as Ironhold noted, if he'd had to do the entire Doom experience, he'd have had to go through 15+ levels like that. Looking at the state he was in after just one, I'd call it busted.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 6, 2015 22:03:46 GMT
The DOOM weapons, based on the 1990s games -
[1] Pistol: This one is your "starter" ranged weapon, in that you start the game holding it. It does well enough against individual weak enemies (the Zombie Soldier, the Zombie Sergeant, the Imp, and the Lost Soul) and is a good way to conserve on ammo, but its low rate of fire means that only the most elite of players (those who compete for the "UV Tyson" speed run records) will attempt to use it against the nastier monsters if they have any other weapons available to them. Fires bullets.
[2] Brass Knuckles: This is your "starter" melee weapon. Like the pistol, it's good enough against weak enemies but unless you've got a berserker pack nearby or you're a UV Tyson runner, you're better off choosing something else if you have the option.
[3] Chainsaw: Your only other melee weapon, and permanently replaces the brass knuckles unless you get a berserker pack. Does a shocking amount of damage to the enemy and can cause them to flinch, but the mechanism pulls you into your foe. Is the only other weapon allowed under UV Tyson rules, and is available in all games.
[4] Shotgun: This weapon (referred to as a riot gun in the novels) fires buckshot at the enemy. It's good for quickly clearing out rooms full of weak enemies, but it's inaccurate and has a limited range. Uses shells. Is available in all games.
[5] Chain Gun: This weapon (referred to as a machine pistol in the novels despite obviously being a multi-barreled weapon in the game) is a fair balance of rate of fire and range. You could hypothetically "snipe" with this weapon, but it's most commonly used to lay down a wall of hot lead against anything you face. Is famous for the "Chain Gun Cha-Cha", in which monsters being hit keep flinching. Also uses bullets, and as such people need to be cautious of their ammo. Is available in all games.
[6] Rocket Launcher: This is for when you absolutely need to kill something quickly. Weaker enemies will explode when hit by this, but a glitch in the game means that Lost Souls will automatically and perfectly side-step rockets if there is room. Due to an oversight on the part of the game designers, while there is a horizontal limit to the shock wave from the blast, there is no vertical limit, meaning that a rocket which hits the wall in front of you can kill a monster standing on top of it; this oversight was kept in mind when they developed a boss monster known as the Icon of Sin, and is the only way to defeat it without cheating.* You also have what is known as "rocket jumping", in which you face a wall and fire the weapon; you take massive damage, but you fly a good distance (and, in fact, this is the only intended way for you to access an alcove in Inferno which leads to a hidden level, but two glitches make it legally accessible otherwise). Uses rockets. Is available in all games.
[7] Plasma Rifle: This is an energy-based version of the chain gun, and behaves in roughly the same fashion. However, the projectiles will actually appear on the overhead map. First becomes available IIRC in The Shores of Hell. Uses energy cells.
[8] BFG 9000: This energy-based weapon is essentially a small WMD. When fired, the weapon unleashes a blast of energy followed up by what some sources claim to be a host of tracer rounds (I always saw it as space folding). Unless your targets are point-blank to you (due to its minimum range) you can clear most rooms in a single shot if you're willing to burn through your energy cells quickly. First becomes available in Inferno.
[9] Super Shotgun: This is a sawed-off double-barreled shotgun. What you lose in range and rate of fire you make up for in raw destructive potential; this is pretty much the only weapon in the game that can make a Cyber Demon (the single most powerful critter shy of the Icon of Sin) flinch. You can use the shotgun and super shotgun at the same time and will cycle between them by pressing the same key repeatedly. Only available in DOOM II.
The UV Tyson speed run records indicate that a cunning player can make it through all levels but those with an Icon of Sin using just the pistol, the brass knuckles, and the chainsaw. But when it comes to quickly killing enemies regardless of the situation, there's a lot to be said for having each of them available. ttttttttttttt
*When you face the Icon, it looks like a massive piece of wall artwork depicting a demon head. If you look closely, however, you'll see what appears to be an exposed brain. This exposed brain fires off cubes that, upon contact with something solid, will transform into a semi-random monster (you could actually crash your game by allowing too many monsters to spawn this way and as such hog too much memory; I used to do it all the time).
What you're supposed to do is fire your rockets into the exposed brain.
Thing is, the brain isn't the weak spot. If you use the "no clipping" cheat code and walk through the Icon, you'll see the severed head of lead designer John Romero on a pike. His head is the actual weak spot. It's located just beneath the brain panel, and so the splash damage from the rockets hitting the brain will hit it instead.
Of course, if you've used the code to get inside, you may as well just shoot the head directly.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 6, 2015 22:24:41 GMT
They did say that the MMA fighter matched the description of the main Doom hero. Since the test they were doing was specifically related to that game, and the pro DID run it about the same speed, they were confirming (or at least plausible) the scenario provided. If you look at Ironhold's description of the character above, the MMA fighter might have resembled the hero in size and build, but the hero was a marine, not an MMA fighter. While MMA fighters may be trained to take a lot, they're not trained for war. What I also noted was that while he may have finished the level in conciderably less time than Adam and Jamie did, he was tired, out of breath and couldn't wait to get all that stuff off of him when he was done. IIRC, he commented that some of the slings were digging into his neck. It's great that he could do one level in the time that he did it in, but again, as Ironhold noted, if he'd had to do the entire Doom experience, he'd have had to go through 15+ levels like that. Looking at the state he was in after just one, I'd call it busted. Knee Deep In The Dead, The Shores Of Hell, Inferno, and Thy Flesh Consumed all had 9 levels each. Levels 1 - 8 were the regular levels, while level 9 was a "bonus" level accessed by finding a hidden exit in one level of the regular game. DOOM II had 32, with 1 - 30 being regular levels and 31 + 32 being bonus levels. Of note is that for DOOM II, the two bonus levels are derived from id Software's first first-person shooter Castle Wolfenstein, which follows an American commando as he makes his way through a series of castles in Nazi Germany assassinating high-level officials (including Hitler himself). Because the levels are based on Wolfenstein, this has caused issues with the game being released in Germany. IIRC, the original computer game;s German release was delayed significantly until the levels were deleted, and the Game Boy Advance port used the excuse of "less available memory" to delete the levels entirely. Humorously enough, most people likely didn't even know that these two levels existed. Due to a coding mistake on the part of programmer Sandy Peterson, the only way to access level 31 in the game is to use the "no clipping" code; you either need to have it active when you step on the teleporter that triggers the opening of the alcove where the hidden exit is or you need the code to walk through the wall. Level 32, meanwhile, can only be accessed by a hidden exit in level 31. As an aside, Knee Deep In The Dead had to be modified for German release as well. One level had a row of computers done up in a swastika; when you clicked on them, they lowered to reveal a series of power-ups. Later editions of the game had the swastika replaced with a basic plus sign.
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