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Post by silverdragon on Nov 21, 2012 9:03:35 GMT
Aquaplaning.... "Flying" over standing water.
Additional subject Cruise Control "In the wet"
Feel free to disagree (gently now) with anything, discussion is good for the sole...
At this point, its a big puddle you cant avoid on a straight road.
So what advice is best for aquaplaning?.... I have always said take the foot off the accelerator gently and dont touch ANYTHING else.... for now.. until you are certain you have control... If you are in a straight line, chances are, you will stay in a straight line, so GENTLY keep it in a straight line... no sudden movements now, enjoy the ride and let the vehicle slow down on its own.... You might as well, panicking just doesnt help right now?...
As soon as you "feel" the car hit dry(Solid?..) ground, GENTLY resume what you are trying to do. Keep a careful watch, but Ignore anyone around you unless you need to avoid them in emergency. As in, dont feel the need for speed because the twit behind is too close....
You Spin?... DONT fight it. Wait until you stop.
Cruise control?... Cruise control these days has Adaptive control, and if it "senses" that a wheel has lost traction, should self-cancel?... Older models, a quick press of the brakes (and release) will cancel CC, it should only resume when you press the resume button anyway. It WONT, despite various rumours, "Spin you out" on purpose... you will spin out if YOU over-react....
Afterwards, Ride the brakes a little. Not for miles, but just a few hundred yards to get heat in there to dry them out?... then test your brakes as soon as its safe.... (Make sure twit behind is far enough back)
As with ALL flood conditions, if the engine stutters, pull over, raise the bonnet and let it dry... do NOT turn the engine off in this situation, let it idle and steam gently. A Dead engine sometimes will resist re-start. If an engine stalls completely, **BEWARE**... I have known situations where an engine has taken in water to the pistons through the air intake, water does not compress, turning the engine over when full of water is not good for piston rings..... In that situation, remove spark plugs and turn it over a few times to clear out the water.
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Post by srracing on Nov 22, 2012 0:04:43 GMT
I have always said take the foot off the accelerator gently and dont touch ANYTHING else.... for now.. until you are certain you have control... Good enough. If you have a manual, put the clutch in. (Disconnects the drive wheels so that no engine drag will apply braking.) With modern discs, really not necesssary. If it happened while you were driving, don't worry about it. The engine is already toast.
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Post by the light works on Nov 22, 2012 6:48:38 GMT
for the final word on the cruise control myth:
some years back, when I was young and foolish, I was travelling on a road which was made mostly out of blind corners and no passing zones, in heavy rain. I was behind 10 cars, the leadmost of which was in no particular hurry. in the one straightaway I knew I had for the next 30 or 40 miles, I had no oncoming traffic, so I pulled out and took it to BOT (brick on throttle) acceleration. I'm not sure exactly how fast I was going, because the speedometer pegged each time I hit a puddle and hydroplaned.
If I couldn't get it airborne with that kind of abuse, there's no way in heck the cruise control could accelerate enough to do it.
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Post by the light works on Nov 22, 2012 6:49:56 GMT
I always run cruise control on long upgrades in my service truck - it keeps me from pushing the speed into the high rent district.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 22, 2012 7:19:09 GMT
I was relying on the drag from an engine applying light braking, enough to slow the wheel down slightly... you dont need any more than that, brakes will stop the wheel completely, engine will allow some turning. TLW, you use CC to do overtakes?... thats a new one on me. I have always gone full manual on overtakes with CC, unless of course its laned traffic and I am overtaking the slugs in the slow lane.... But then again, us over here cant change gear with CC, 'cos we all use manual.... Do you not even hesitate a little when hitting standing water?. I know your works truck is on the fully loaded side and heavy, but surely even at speed the steering goes a little light?... CC uphill, yes, good, but hardly affects aquaplaning ... I have travelled the world and have yet to find a puddle on a slope?.... I have driven through Rivers on a slope, usually the result of flooding, I always stop and check the heavy ones.... "How deep is the water do you think?.." "Couple of inches at most" "What makes you say that?.. it looks deeper..." "Well it only comes halfway up them ducks....... " [Pull] I once witnessed road rage when I was let through a police roadblock... they were turning back cars.... I heard the conversation along the lines of... "WHY THE (deleted string of rude words) are you letting HIM through in THAT if you cant let the (more deletions) residents through to rescue their own homes..." Policeman on full "Polite but sarcastic" duty, "Sir, the water will maybe come halfway up his tyres, he wont even get his feet wet, can you assure me that two foot of water wont damage your car?... the only reason we are letting him through is to rescue the last twit who tried to drive a car through here....." I was actually driving the Heavy rescue truck, something like this one... To pull out a 7.5 tonner that was stranded. PS, the pic I am using is the vehicle used by a yard I know well, if I remember right, I delivered the paint they used to respray it, and I know some of their drivers, cant find a pic of the actual truck I drove that time but its almost the same as that... a few years older maybe?... The copper had taken one look at what I am driving and said "You look like you know what you are doing?... its about two to two and a half foot deep in places... I suggest you dont go in THEM places?..." He also said "If you loose the road, just drive between the lamp posts..." I never though that through until then, but its good advice on a flooded road that hasnt got other tall roadside structures....
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Post by the light works on Nov 22, 2012 8:05:56 GMT
I was relying on the drag from an engine applying light braking, enough to slow the wheel down slightly... you dont need any more than that, brakes will stop the wheel completely, engine will allow some turning. TLW, you use CC to do overtakes?... thats a new one on me. I have always gone full manual on overtakes with CC, unless of course its laned traffic and I am overtaking the slugs in the slow lane.... But then again, us over here cant change gear with CC, 'cos we all use manual.... Do you not even hesitate a little when hitting standing water?. I know your works truck is on the fully loaded side and heavy, but surely even at speed the steering goes a little light?... CC uphill, yes, good, but hardly affects aquaplaning ... I have travelled the world and have yet to find a puddle on a slope?.... I have driven through Rivers on a slope, usually the result of flooding, I always stop and check the heavy ones.... "How deep is the water do you think?.." "Couple of inches at most" "What makes you say that?.. it looks deeper..." "Well it only comes halfway up them ducks....... " [Pull] I once witnessed road rage when I was let through a police roadblock... they were turning back cars.... I heard the conversation along the lines of... "WHY THE (deleted string of rude words) are you letting HIM through in THAT if you cant let the (more deletions) residents through to rescue their own homes..." Policeman on full "Polite but sarcastic" duty, "Sir, the water will maybe come halfway up his tyres, he wont even get his feet wet, can you assure me that two foot of water wont damage your car?... the only reason we are letting him through is to rescue the last twit who tried to drive a car through here....." I was actually driving the Heavy rescue truck, something like this one... To pull out a 7.5 tonner that was stranded. PS, the pic I am using is the vehicle used by a yard I know well, if I remember right, I delivered the paint they used to respray it, and I know some of their drivers, cant find a pic of the actual truck I drove that time but its almost the same as that... a few years older maybe?... The copper had taken one look at what I am driving and said "You look like you know what you are doing?... its about two to two and a half foot deep in places... I suggest you dont go in THEM places?..." He also said "If you loose the road, just drive between the lamp posts..." I never though that through until then, but its good advice on a flooded road that hasnt got other tall roadside structures.... you misread - I was doing the overtake at BOT (Brick On Throttle) not on CC. normally I slow down for deep water, otherwise it gets on the windshield and obstructs visibility. & we do have streams across poorly graded roads, here, too; and I have had a time or two it got a little borderline hitting those at speed on corners on worn tires. of course, we also have this road in my hometown:
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 22, 2012 9:29:56 GMT
I am stealing that photograph......
For some reason, I started looking for the Dog Lead?.......
There isnt one, I think there SHOULD be one..........
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Post by srmarti on Nov 22, 2012 16:07:45 GMT
for the final word on the cruise control myth: If I couldn't get it airborne with that kind of abuse, there's no way in heck the cruise control could accelerate enough to do it. Considering the cruise control would back off the throttle instead of keeping it floored, I'd say pretty much busted. The closest incident I can recall is a neighbor driving up my hill and hitting an icy patch. Apparently she was muscle-ling through with lots of throttle and wheel spin, when she hit dry pavement she launched the car up onto a stone wall. Airborne? No. I think cruise control would have behaved smarter. My Dad and I managed to lever the car off the wall and she was able to drive away.
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Post by the light works on Nov 22, 2012 16:37:07 GMT
we have people who respond to ice like that, too.
and for silverdragon: here is what the road looks like in dry weather.
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Post by the light works on Nov 22, 2012 16:38:57 GMT
note: the lake's not getting higher over the years - the road's getting lower.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 23, 2012 7:38:15 GMT
Get Airborne with CC?...
I dont know that part of the myth?....
I thought it was just "Spin out", which can mean tyre spin or vehicle spin, but Airborne?...
A Car hitting water doesnt launch, it may skip a little but mostly its going downwards?....
TLW, I hope thats a corner ahead, otherwise, you have a very big green alligator covering the road?....
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Post by srmarti on Nov 23, 2012 16:49:10 GMT
Getting airborne is a popular result in the cruise control stories. It's basically nonsense, but so are lots of these stories.
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Post by the light works on Nov 23, 2012 17:03:58 GMT
the road does turn before it hits the far hills, but it is hidden by terrain.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 24, 2012 7:56:20 GMT
Terrain, is that a "Posh" word for a Train?....
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Post by ironhold on Nov 25, 2012 3:00:49 GMT
Terrain, is that a "Posh" word for a Train?.... "Terrain" = land.
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Post by Lokifan on Nov 25, 2012 3:19:30 GMT
I am stealing that photograph...... For some reason, I started looking for the Dog Lead?....... There isnt one, I think there SHOULD be one.......... If you like that, you'll love this video. Including the easiest fishing a dog ever did:
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Post by alabastersandman on Nov 25, 2012 11:46:00 GMT
Driving home early spring at about 80mph in the rain I hit a patch of water just after crossing a bridge. The car started to hydroplane as I held an apple in one hand and 2700 lbs of Ford Focus in the other. I counter-steered a bit, eased off the throttle, and when the car stopped trying to play water skier and found some asphalt, it straightened right out. If there had been a longer patch of water I think I would have been alright but things could have gotten far more dramatic very quickly.
Been in that situation more times than I can count on one and a half hands(ish), the best thing to do is NOT over-react, don't let off the throttle too much or too quickly, and definitely have the front tires pointing where you want to be going once you get traction. From my experience, the likely place to encounter hydroplaning is on the expressway, though two lane highways certainly have potential for it. Either way, the puddles are not generally large. Even if the groove is puddled for miles, if you start to hydroplane you will not stay in that groove very long, meaning in all likelihood, you will find traction as soon as you float out of the groove. The vehicle should still be going very much forward and if you are ready for it, you should have no problem maintaining control.
Personally I won't use CC in the rain or on snow or ice, I just feel like I'm more in control. It would be interesting to see some hard data on the effects of hydroplaning under different circumstances such as CC vs. no CC, holding the steering wheel firm vs counter-steering, etc. I would think that results under given conditions should be fairly repeatable.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 26, 2012 8:56:52 GMT
Ironhold, Excuse my sense of humour, it was just a joke?....
Anyway, I just had yesterday a "I WISH I had a camera" moment... I witnessed tow guys having a play in the wet on a car park. It was rather wet, about three inches deep (We have flooding everywhere in the UK at the moment...)
They were doing "Skid-pan" type things in Transit Vans.... Sideways, 180's, 360's...... The spray was phenomenal, the sound of tortured tyres when they hit "dry", but it looked fun?....
They saw me watching, and slowed down... one of them opened with the old "Is there a problem?.." line, I said "Well you gotta learn these things somewhere" "Wanna join us?.." "Sure but the Boss wont be happy if I smash the load up?..." There was the "**** Him!!" usual humour, but I resisted and carried on my damp way....
On the subject of CC, I only ever use it on Motorways in the UK, we just dont have the road space here to use it that much.
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Post by rory on Dec 5, 2012 23:13:37 GMT
I not had too much of a problem with aqua plaining. I have a front wheel drive so a little more throttle and slight steer adjustment (and I mean slight) gets you out of it.
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Post by maxman on Dec 20, 2012 9:17:20 GMT
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