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Post by Cybermortis on May 18, 2014 15:06:06 GMT
When someone is doing a repetitive, well known or what they think is a simple task they will often say that 'I can do it with my eyes closed'.
So what popular tasks can you think of are said to be things you can do with your eyes closed? (Keep it clean)
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Post by the light works on May 18, 2014 15:18:00 GMT
Are we looking for realistic things, or things people make claims about? and are we wanting to be testable?
I often play my djembe with my eyes closed, and occasionally play my kit with my eyes closed. - but in both cases it is not a case of being able to hit a moving target as it is hitting a target in exactly the same place all the time. (closing my eyes allows me to focus better on the tempo and inflections and ignore visual distractions)
I've heard people say they've walked or driven a route so many times they could do it with their eyes closed - and that would make a great test. (with proper safety precautions, of course)
a good typist SHOULD be able to type a document with their eyes closed - that's kind of the point of touch typing. (actually to transcribe a document without looking away from the source document)
for tasks like ATM withdrawals, I would suggest )at risk of seeming insensitivity,) that they use a proficient blind person for their baseline
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Post by Cybermortis on May 18, 2014 15:44:18 GMT
I'd say a mixture of realistic things, and things that people make claims about but which could be tested safely - which would omit using, say, power tools in the shop but not automatically 'firearms' as they could try using painball guns/rounds and have someone standing their to make sure that the gun isn't being pointed in a dangerous direction.
One idea which I've seen in films is that you can pull apart an M16 (or other rifle) and put it back together when blindfolded. No idea if this is something that is ever done in the real world as part of military training...or just to show off.
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Post by the light works on May 18, 2014 20:22:41 GMT
I'd say a mixture of realistic things, and things that people make claims about but which could be tested safely - which would omit using, say, power tools in the shop but not automatically 'firearms' as they could try using painball guns/rounds and have someone standing their to make sure that the gun isn't being pointed in a dangerous direction. One idea which I've seen in films is that you can pull apart an M16 (or other rifle) and put it back together when blindfolded. No idea if this is something that is ever done in the real world as part of military training...or just to show off. I suspect that is showing off. there was a Dukes of Hazzard trope in which Daisy was competing for Miss Hazzard County, and one fo the competitions was to rebuild a carbeurator - and of course, they cheated by having a burned out bulb in her cubicle. but she won anyway, because of course, the boys had drilled her until she could do it blindfolded.
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Post by ironhold on May 18, 2014 20:51:23 GMT
a good typist SHOULD be able to type a document with their eyes closed - that's kind of the point of touch typing. I've actually done that before.
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Post by User Unavailable on May 18, 2014 22:06:19 GMT
Disassembly of a M16 or .M1911A1 while blindfolded. Been there, done that. Typically for "competition" purposes. (Friendly wager)
Walking a known route blindfolded. I've done that during weeks of being under the blindfold while learning how to use my long white cane at the Hines VA Blind Rehab Center in Hines, IL.
A blind person would have an advantage over a sighted person being blindfolded, in that the blind person has learned to use ALL senses to make up for the lack of sight.
Also, while at the blind center, I learned that I can rebuild/repair my toilet fixtures and faucets, effectively measure and cut wood and drive nails, while blindfolded.
They even have an extensive wood shop, with power tools, lathes, table and skill saws...a fully equipped wood shop, in which they they teach blinded veterans to safely work with wood.
They also teach small engine repair and numerous other tasks.
I still have useable sight, but they start you off blindfolded and get you functioning "normally" as a totally blind person, then teach you how to incorporate what you know and learned, with your existing sight, to function even better.
A sighted person doing a close up, non mobile task, while blindfolded, such as assembly/disassembly of a M16, easy enough to do, slower than un blindfolded.
Stick a blindfold on someone and tell them to walk a mile to a park or friends/family house or a considerable distance through a large familiar building, they likely won't get to the end point, at least not safe or un injured.
Drive blindfolded? Lol. No.
Edit: when doing mechanic work on vehicles, folks often have to reach into an area that they can't see in, due to either other vehicle parts being in the way or their own arm blocking the sight and work by feel.
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Post by Cybermortis on May 18, 2014 22:48:27 GMT
Humm, interesting Former (as is usually the case). Some interesting seeds of ideas there - walking around blindfolded or compensating for blindness with other senses probably isn't testable as it would require the cast to be blindfolded for several days so they get used to it. That probably isn't viable given all their other work and home related commitments.
I like the idea of them seeing if they could assemble an M16 (or other rifle) while blindfolded - I kicked the idea out there as for some reason I flashed back to an episode of Battlestar Galactica where the new XO of the Pegasus has marines doing just this as I was writing.
I'm trying to think of other, maybe simple, tasks that they could try safely blindfolded in a controlled environment and which they would not require training to do even sighted. Measuring, cutting and maybe trying to put pipes together might be an interesting way to go.
Typing would require some skill to pull off blindfolded, and I don't think any of the cast would claim to be touch typists nor would they really have the time or inclination to gain that much skill. (They have about a week to do all the filming and testing, and that isn't really long enough to pick up a new skill and get it to the level where you could realistically expect anyone to do it 'with their eyes closed')
Walking...maybe they could see if they know the layout of the shop well enough to be able to walk around it without major incident - they could have a helper standing nearby to stop them from walking into a wall or falling down stairs.
They could see if Jamie's organisation at M5 allows him to find things that are in storage 'with his eyes closed' - if you look at footage the shelves at M5 are filled with boxes labelled with contents such as 'dolls heads'.
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Post by the light works on May 18, 2014 23:12:23 GMT
I would hazard a guess Jamie can touch type.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on May 19, 2014 13:21:27 GMT
Ok well I don't know about everyone else but what I think about when I hear the expression I can do it with my eyes closed is routine. ie: a task (or series of tasks) that have been preformed so often by the test subject(s) that they are 'embedded' into their memory such as the 'morning routine.' - get up, shower, dress, eat ect. That having been said what if we asked them (I see Karri, Tory & Grant for this one) to do their 'normal' morning routine 'blind'. We have them get up, make the bed, (for modesties sake we'll skip them taking a shower that morning ) get dressed, make breakfast & eat, wash & put away the dishes, brush their teeth, do their hair, grab their bags/wallets & keys, & finally make their way out the front door. We get them to do all this once while sighted/not blindfolded, & then do it all again blindfolded. They'll be timed to see how long it takes to preform their routine 'sighted' & 'blind', & then the times will be compared to see if this idiom is infact accurate.
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Post by the light works on May 19, 2014 14:00:06 GMT
Ok well I don't know about everyone else but what I think about when I hear the expression I can do it with my eyes closed is routine. ie: a task (or series of tasks) that have been preformed so often by the test subject(s) that they are 'embedded' into their memory such as the 'morning routine.' - get up, shower, dress, eat ect. That having been said what if we asked them (I see Karri, Tory & Grant for this one) to do their 'normal' morning routine 'blind'. We have them get up, make the bed, (for modesties sake we'll skip them taking a shower that morning ) get dressed, make breakfast & eat, wash & put away the dishes, brush their teeth, do their hair, grab their bags/wallets & keys, & finally make their way out the front door. We get them to do all this once while sighted/not blindfolded, & then do it all again blindfolded. They'll be timed to see how long it takes to preform their routine 'sighted' & 'blind', & then the times will be compared to see if this idiom is infact accurate. I think we should have them perform their normal morning ablutions blindfolded but off camera - since it may be that their entire morning grooming ritual is performed in a state of sufficient undress to render it NSFT (Not Safe For Television) and then take an "after" picture.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on May 19, 2014 14:15:21 GMT
Ok well I don't know about everyone else but what I think about when I hear the expression I can do it with my eyes closed is routine. ie: a task (or series of tasks) that have been preformed so often by the test subject(s) that they are 'embedded' into their memory such as the 'morning routine.' - get up, shower, dress, eat ect. That having been said what if we asked them (I see Karri, Tory & Grant for this one) to do their 'normal' morning routine 'blind'. We have them get up, make the bed, (for modesties sake we'll skip them taking a shower that morning ) get dressed, make breakfast & eat, wash & put away the dishes, brush their teeth, do their hair, grab their bags/wallets & keys, & finally make their way out the front door. We get them to do all this once while sighted/not blindfolded, & then do it all again blindfolded. They'll be timed to see how long it takes to preform their routine 'sighted' & 'blind', & then the times will be compared to see if this idiom is infact accurate. I think we should have them perform their normal morning ablutions blindfolded but off camera - since it may be that their entire morning grooming ritual is performed in a state of sufficient undress to render it NSFT (Not Safe For Television) and then take an "after" picture. But then that raises the question: How do we know they didn't cheat (take the blindfold off) during this process? Unless the blindfolds are attached to them in such a way that they can't be removed without help. Such as a silicon blindfold (black of course) that is glued to their faces over their eyes. This would allow them to still preform the tests & get over the NSFT (Not Safe For Television) hurdle. I think doing a photographic comparison is a good idea, but they should still timed doing the whole thing. The whole idea is to see if the idiom I can do it with my eyes closed is true or not. If it really is as easy as the saying would imply then they shouldn't take any longer to preform the tasks blind than they do sighted.
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Post by the light works on May 19, 2014 15:15:01 GMT
I think we should have them perform their normal morning ablutions blindfolded but off camera - since it may be that their entire morning grooming ritual is performed in a state of sufficient undress to render it NSFT (Not Safe For Television) and then take an "after" picture. But then that raises the question: How do we know they didn't cheat (take the blindfold off) during this process? Unless the blindfolds are attached to them in such a way that they can't be removed without help. Such as a silicon blindfold (black of course) that is glued to their faces over their eyes. This would allow them to still preform the tests & get over the NSFT (Not Safe For Television) hurdle. I think doing a photographic comparison is a good idea, but they should still timed doing the whole thing. The whole idea is to see if the idiom I can do it with my eyes closed is true or not. If it really is as easy as the saying would imply then they shouldn't take any longer to preform the tasks blind than they do sighted. I would think we could trust them to be honest, but I guess we could keylock the blindfold... but it does raise the question of how they brush their hair with the blindfold. maybe make them do it in a pitch black room, instead... then a light sensor could monitor it.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on May 19, 2014 15:55:58 GMT
But then that raises the question: How do we know they didn't cheat (take the blindfold off) during this process? Unless the blindfolds are attached to them in such a way that they can't be removed without help. Such as a silicon blindfold (black of course) that is glued to their faces over their eyes. This would allow them to still preform the tests & get over the NSFT (Not Safe For Television) hurdle. I think doing a photographic comparison is a good idea, but they should still timed doing the whole thing. The whole idea is to see if the idiom I can do it with my eyes closed is true or not. If it really is as easy as the saying would imply then they shouldn't take any longer to preform the tasks blind than they do sighted. I would think we could trust them to be honest, but I guess we could keylock the blindfold... but it does raise the question of how they brush their hair with the blindfold. maybe make them do it in a pitch black room, instead... then a light sensor could monitor it. Oh I don't doubt their honesty, but I still think it's a good idea to do the blindfold. That way the nit pickers can't come back with the obvious rant of "Well how do we know they had their eyes closed the whole time?"Filming in a pitch black room? Usually when they do in the pitch dark experiments (The pirate's eye patch myth & driving dark border smuggling myth come to my mind as classic examples) they use a night vision cameras so we the fans can 'see' what's going on. But I don't think it'll work if they're testing the idiom in their own homes. (I don't think they can black out a house with LOTS of windows quite as easily as they can a windowless workshop.) With a routine the idiom is (at least as I see it) about familiarity ie: that they not only know the routine by heart. But would also know the environment their in like the back of their hands, & therefore could preform the give task(s) & being 'blind' wouldn't be an obstacle. Plus I've heard that the night vision camera costs ALOT more to run than a normal camera, so a blindfold might be a more cost effective solution - even the Mythbusters have to come in on budget. & when it comes to brushing their hair with the blindfold - that's why I suggested a silicon glue on blindfold. It'll have no strings to get in the way of them preforming any of the tasks.
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Post by Cybermortis on May 19, 2014 18:31:02 GMT
I suspect that they would not be open to the idea of filming in their own homes. This would be rather intrusive for Adam, Jamie and Kari as they are all married and in Kari's case probably wouldn't be favoured because she has a little girl to look after. Tory and Grant might be a little more open to the idea, but even they have private lives they would wish to keep private.
There is also the safety aspect, in that walking around your own home blindfolded could result in tripping over things or falling down the stairs - which would include dogs.
This in turn means that if they can't or more likely won't allow filming in their homes, then it may not be practical to test this. Short of duplicating the layout of their homes, which is unlikely to be remotely practical, the only way to test this would be to either create a bedroom in the shop they can sleep in for at least a week to get used to the layout, or have them stay in a motel/hotel room for a week. The latter is costly, the former would most likely be turned down by most of them. (There is a reason Grant and Tory were the ones who slept in the shop when they did beer before liqueur myth, while Kari went home).
That said they could test individual aspects of the morning routine, such as making a bed, brushing their teeth, making coffee and toast ect. Testing these individually would make more sense as it would not be dependent on testing at a set time of day, would be easier and cheaper to set up and would spare us from the sight of the inevitable bed headed Mythbuster who is uncaffinated...The latter probably being considered far to dangerous to risk a camera crew on.
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Post by User Unavailable on May 19, 2014 20:41:21 GMT
Humm, interesting Former (as is usually the case). Some interesting seeds of ideas there - walking around blindfolded or compensating for blindness with other senses probably isn't testable as it would require the cast to be blindfolded for several days so they get used to it. That probably isn't viable given all their other work and home related commitments. I like the idea of them seeing if they could assemble an M16 (or other rifle) while blindfolded - I kicked the idea out there as for some reason I flashed back to an episode of Battlestar Galactica where the new XO of the Pegasus has marines doing just this as I was writing. I'm trying to think of other, maybe simple, tasks that they could try safely blindfolded in a controlled environment and which they would not require training to do even sighted. Measuring, cutting and maybe trying to put pipes together might be an interesting way to go. Typing would require some skill to pull off blindfolded, and I don't think any of the cast would claim to be touch typists nor would they really have the time or inclination to gain that much skill. (They have about a week to do all the filming and testing, and that isn't really long enough to pick up a new skill and get it to the level where you could realistically expect anyone to do it 'with their eyes closed') Walking...maybe they could see if they know the layout of the shop well enough to be able to walk around it without major incident - they could have a helper standing nearby to stop them from walking into a wall or falling down stairs. They could see if Jamie's organisation at M5 allows him to find things that are in storage 'with his eyes closed' - if you look at footage the shelves at M5 are filled with boxes labelled with contents such as 'dolls heads'. Note, that I wasn't under the blindfold for the entire several weeks. I only wore the blindfold during training sessions that required me to be blindfolded. (A few hours a day) though I was being trained by professional Orientation and Mobility instructors. I wasn't just left to figure it out on my own. The Orientation part of O&M is crucial and stressful to learn. Orientation is Always knowing which direction you are currently facing, every time you make a turn, as well as knowing which direction you need to go, to get somewhere and so on. We would be moving along and the instructors regularly ask questions like: What direction are you facing. What direction is to your left, right or rear. What direction would I turn at ______ intersection to get to _____, if I were traveling North, South, East or West. Take me to that intersection from here. How would you get from the Blind Center to the Snack Bar. Take me to the Snack, but let's stop by the Disbursing Window first. Take me to _____ from here. (Note that all these questions were asked, after becoming familiar with the layout of the hospital) So on and so forth. Then after the indoor training at vast interior of the Hines VA, we moved out into the surrounding communities and did the same training with streets, sidewalks and traffic, along with the same type of questions, after I had a working knowledge of the communities I trained in. The more you "think" about what direction you're facing, the more automatic it becomes. Most people do not normally think about or keep track of which direction they are facing, ALL the time. The Long White Cane is crucial to Mobility as it not only keeps you from tripping over hazards in you path, but is a tool to help you navigate around obstacles and to keep you course straight and true by referencing curbs, buildings, hallways and so on. Long White Cane use, video.. This video is kind of dry and long, but covers the basics of the Long White Cane and it's use. Edit: Here is a short very basic video.Note that, in the two videos above, they recommend longer canes than the VA blind program does. The VA measures from your heart level to the ground, instead if between the nose and chin. I use a 54 inch cane. They did make good points about information loss, due to the joints in a collapsible cane, and you do loose some tactile feel, but in my experience it is minor losses for me. I also use a plastic Pointer or Pencil Tip on my canes, instead of a metal tip as I found the metal tip to noisy for my liking, especially as my useable site is 20/20 or better. I have both a rigid and a collapsible canes, but I typically always use the collapsible. ( folding not telescoping)
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Post by Cybermortis on May 19, 2014 20:56:44 GMT
I recall a news story from a year or two back about a guy who claimed he was able to navigate (and I think ride a bike) using echolocation alone - no tricks or technology. Just listening hard.
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Post by User Unavailable on May 19, 2014 21:12:11 GMT
I recall a news story from a year or two back about a guy who claimed he was able to navigate (and I think ride a bike) using echolocation alone - no tricks or technology. Just listening hard. Yes, I remember that. I believe it was a teenager, supposedly used tongue clicks. I think he was blind from birth. IIRC
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Post by silverdragon on May 20, 2014 8:46:36 GMT
When someone is doing a repetitive, well known or what they think is a simple task they will often say that 'I can do it with my eyes closed'. So what popular tasks can you think of are said to be things you can do with your eyes closed? (Keep it clean) I can back my last truck up to a loading bay..... You are waiting for the crunch? Doesnt happen, it has a sensor on the trailer, that "beeps", the faster the beep, the closer you are.** In Truth, NOT in the driving seat, I could actually drop (Un-Hitch) a trailer blindfolded.... its so repetitive, its just what you do on autopilot. ** I have the same reverse rig on my car. Look, I dont know, its just something I cant explain, on mirrors I reverse better anyway, but I can pit 100ft of vehicle inch perfect and back to a loading bay and touch like a butterfly with sore feet, but back my car up?.. I miss by a couple of feet, it does look close than it actually is, so I now have sonar.
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Post by silverdragon on May 20, 2014 8:50:55 GMT
May I enter an old joke...
definition of Shin. A Device for finding furniture in the dark.
How many of us can walk around the house late at night with no lights.............
I know one person who cant, a good friend, his Missus has a habit of re-arranging furniture. On her own. At Night. We dont know why......
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Post by the light works on May 20, 2014 14:21:34 GMT
May I enter an old joke... definition of Shin. A Device for finding furniture in the dark. How many of us can walk around the house late at night with no lights............. I know one person who cant, a good friend, his Missus has a habit of re-arranging furniture. On her own. At Night. We dont know why...... passive aggressive?
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