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Post by the light works on Jul 26, 2014 2:19:57 GMT
If you are drilling into the melon, why not just hook it up to a hose and pipe in superheated steam? It would give better heat transfer than an electric element. I guess the issue there is do they have access to a superheated steam source? I see two problems with that: 1. If too much pressure builds up too quickly, the melon might just shoot off the pipe. 2. If steam comes out of the hole the pipe is fed in through, there's no way of telling if it's the steam from the pipe or steam from the melon's scorched insides that's coming out. With an internal heat source, even if the steam comes out of the hole, rather than blowing the melon up, at least you'll have some indication of how much steam can be produced inside a melon and how fast it can be done. In other words: Even if it fails miserably, you'll still have viable data. perhaps they could use the superheated steam in a closed loop heating system. (or at least circulate it through their heater instead of pressurizing the melon with it.) |
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 26, 2014 7:10:48 GMT
Do MB's have access to Superheated steam.
I would say that James Watt would walk past some of their boiler experiments rather quickly, but, be quite intrigued by their methods.....
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Post by the light works on Jul 26, 2014 19:01:23 GMT
I am actually envisioning two different tests to do with superheated steam - one to see if you can flash heat the melon to make it explode, and one to see if you can overpressure it hard enough to make it explode.
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Post by silverdragon on Jul 27, 2014 9:15:57 GMT
So putting it in some form of pressure cooker, then sudden decompression....
I am liking that idea.
Melon Jam anyone?...
question, has anyone ever made Melon Jam?.. (Jelly to you Yanks..)
If not, why not, and thinking of that, there is probably good reason..........
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 27, 2014 12:47:58 GMT
No reason not to make Melon Jam, just cube the flesh of the Melon and cook it down, same as you would a cooking apple like a Bramley for making Apple sauce. You would probably need to add pectin to set it I can't see any reason not to.
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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2014 14:02:48 GMT
So putting it in some form of pressure cooker, then sudden decompression.... I am liking that idea. Melon Jam anyone?... question, has anyone ever made Melon Jam?.. (Jelly to you Yanks..) If not, why not, and thinking of that, there is probably good reason.......... here, preserves are made with more or less whole fruit. jam is with the fruit pureed and jelly is with the fiber strained out. add explosive decompression to the attempts to blow the melon. |
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Post by the light works on Jul 27, 2014 14:05:28 GMT
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Post by mrfatso on Jul 27, 2014 20:52:27 GMT
So putting it in some form of pressure cooker, then sudden decompression.... I am liking that idea. Melon Jam anyone?... question, has anyone ever made Melon Jam?.. (Jelly to you Yanks..) If not, why not, and thinking of that, there is probably good reason.......... here, preserves are made with more or less whole fruit. jam is with the fruit pureed and jelly is with the fiber strained out. add explosive decompression to the attempts to blow the melon. For us, though Jelly is used to describe fruit with the fibre strained out as in a redcurrant jelly, it mostly brings to mind what you guys call Jello or is it Gello? |
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Post by ironhold on Jul 27, 2014 22:13:29 GMT
Gelatin is pretty much the same around the world.
Americans tend to refer to it as "Jell-o" because that's the name of the leading national manufacturer & vendor of the product.
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 27, 2014 23:15:46 GMT
here, preserves are made with more or less whole fruit. jam is with the fruit pureed and jelly is with the fiber strained out. add explosive decompression to the attempts to blow the melon. For us, though Jelly is used to describe fruit with the fibre strained out as in a redcurrant jelly, it mostly brings to mind what you guys call Jello or is it Gello? Jelly and Jell-O, apart from both being fruit/berry flavored, are two very different products. Jam is pureed fruit/berries in both America and the UK. It has chunks and seeds. Jelly, in American, has no chunks or seeds, like TLW said. Neither has UK jelly. The confusion arises when the Brits continue to use the word 'jelly' about gelatinous products, while the Americans tend to use the brand name 'Jell-O' as a generic term for such things. As far as I can gather, Brits use the word 'jelly' for pretty much anything that's fruit/berry flavored and wobbly with no chunks or seeds in it. This is what I've come to understand after hours on end of listening to discussions on the topic between British and American friends (I just KNEW it would come in handy to keep listening!  ) |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 27, 2014 23:46:56 GMT
Jam is something that you put on your toast, and can be seeded or unseeded. It tends to be fairly soft, and if removed from the pot will slowly run into a puddle.
Jelly is a desert on its own, and is capable of holding its shape after being removed from a container once set.
Yes, there is occasionally some overlap and no real hard rules at times. But this is English, a language that was carefully and artfully developed to confuse the rest of the world.
As opposed to Japanese which was carefully and artfully developed to torture anyone trying to learn it.
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Post by the light works on Jul 28, 2014 5:01:39 GMT
Jam is something that you put on your toast, and can be seeded or unseeded. It tends to be fairly soft, and if removed from the pot will slowly run into a puddle. Jelly is a desert on its own, and is capable of holding its shape after being removed from a container once set. Yes, there is occasionally some overlap and no real hard rules at times. But this is English, a language that was carefully and artfully developed to confuse the rest of the world. As opposed to Japanese which was carefully and artfully developed to torture anyone trying to learn it. I am told that the proper framework for pronouncing japanese properly is to be p***ed off and constipated. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jul 28, 2014 9:35:27 GMT
Jam is something that you put on your toast, and can be seeded or unseeded. It tends to be fairly soft, and if removed from the pot will slowly run into a puddle. Jelly is a desert on its own, and is capable of holding its shape after being removed from a container once set. Yes, there is occasionally some overlap and no real hard rules at times. But this is English, a language that was carefully and artfully developed to confuse the rest of the world. As opposed to Japanese which was carefully and artfully developed to torture anyone trying to learn it. I am told that the proper framework for pronouncing japanese properly is to be p***ed off and constipated. Or, if you're a woman, dip into your subconcious and find the voice of that little timid 5-year old girl who's constantly amazed at everything Okay. Jelly, jam, English and Japanese aside, back to the OP  I've been reading through the entire thread again and I actually think we have this one pretty well covered by now. Does anyone have anything constructive to add at this point? New ideas? Challenges to the existing ones? Refinements? |
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Post by the light works on Jul 28, 2014 14:37:58 GMT
well, my summary would be:
tests: use a crab cooker (propane burner) with various baffles and lack thereof to try to blow up first a single melon, then a small pile of melons. if that is successful, try to blow up a skid of melons. if it fails, try to replicate the results with superheated steam, by catastrophic overpressure, or in a microwave. if all else fails, call Frank Doyle.
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Post by wvengineer on Jul 31, 2014 20:57:17 GMT
Cyber, weren't you one one reminding everyone to stay on topic 3 pages ago?  I wonder how hard it would be to build a metal fixture to hold part of a melon (say 1/4) and get it to seal to the melon wedge? My first thought is a metal ball with a opening where a wedge can be inserted and sealed. Then you can heat and pressurize things all you want. The ports would all be though the metal, which will provide much more reliable connections than though the melon rind. It will also allow for more test out of one melon, so less waste while you do scale testing. |
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 3, 2014 10:18:18 GMT
Cyber only just made a short side diversion, and it was Melon related....
But heck, still slightly off topic.
Why?...
The "Myth" is about whole melons, if you dissect them, you will get the fans "You did it wrong" complaints?...
If you microwaved a focused beam onto a melon to get the insides hot, then yes, possibility the rind would explode...
But this is about external heat source through the rind of a whole melon from the outside.......
The only variable is how quickly you can apply heat.
I am guessing if you tossed a whole melon in, say, a forge that is up to temp, you have a very hot start?
I also have a question.
"I just happened to have one at home" quote...
From Adam.
He just happened to have a Sword Forge lying about the place at Home?....
Erm.....
Ok, so I have some strange and unusual tools, I cant complain, its just Sword forges?... well, you cant exactly get one of them at B&Q?.. (Home depot, Wally world, Tesco...)
Just how did you manage to get one of them lying about at home Adam, and why?..
Do you make Swords as a hobby?...
I am intrigued.
A Relative of mine was a Master Armourer who has made replica blades for the Jorvik Viking Centre in York England (Back last Century) and I have a sort of passing interest.....
And I know, thats off topic.
But, its not that far, because a sword forge or any kind of forge would be the kind of thing you could get that "Instant heat"....
I am left wondering my own "That aint happening" theology in previous posts on this.
If the fire spread fast, and we have lots of combustible material on a wagon with wooden floor and possible oil grease spills, Cardboard containers and the rest, if the fire spread fast with a lot of heat.....
The idea I propose is to lay a track where you can gently roll a melon into the heart of a VERY hot fire.
Will the heat be that much the inside would flash over....
Only one way to find out?...
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Post by the light works on Aug 3, 2014 14:52:57 GMT
I am totally unsurprised by the possibility Adam had a sword forge as a hobby.
and yes, that would apply the rapid heating even faster than the crab cooker idea I had - though a sword forge is a bit close a fit in comparison to some other styles of forge. perhaps they know a glassblower who has an old "glory hole" oven that he wouldn't mind putting at risk. (as I understand they suffer wear from use and have to be relined periodically)
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Post by OziRiS on Aug 4, 2014 11:52:00 GMT
Cyber, weren't you one one reminding everyone to stay on topic 3 pages ago? I wonder how hard it would be to build a metal fixture to hold part of a melon (say 1/4) and get it to seal to the melon wedge? My first thought is a metal ball with a opening where a wedge can be inserted and sealed. Then you can heat and pressurize things all you want. The ports would all be though the metal, which will provide much more reliable connections than though the melon rind. It will also allow for more test out of one melon, so less waste while you do scale testing. Introducing pressure rather than creating it from the moisture that's already there would still create the problem that if you got a reaction, you wouldn't know if it was from the introduced pressure or the melon itself. For heating a single melon, I like TLW's crab cooker or SD's new idea of rolling the melon into an already very hot fire. Regardless of the results of those tests, I still think it's important to have a stack of melons to see if heat distribution makes a difference. They'd have to go there anyway for full scale, so why not make a smaller version of it to begin with, so they understand the science of it if they get an actual result? Sifting through 2 cubic meters of melons to find out what happened where in the stack and why would be much easier than sifting through an entire trailer's worth after it's burned to the ground. After all, we don't just want to know what happens. We want to know why it happens. |
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Post by the light works on Aug 4, 2014 14:15:30 GMT
Cyber, weren't you one one reminding everyone to stay on topic 3 pages ago? I wonder how hard it would be to build a metal fixture to hold part of a melon (say 1/4) and get it to seal to the melon wedge? My first thought is a metal ball with a opening where a wedge can be inserted and sealed. Then you can heat and pressurize things all you want. The ports would all be though the metal, which will provide much more reliable connections than though the melon rind. It will also allow for more test out of one melon, so less waste while you do scale testing. Introducing pressure rather than creating it from the moisture that's already there would still create the problem that if you got a reaction, you wouldn't know if it was from the introduced pressure or the melon itself. For heating a single melon, I like TLW's crab cooker or SD's new idea of rolling the melon into an already very hot fire. Regardless of the results of those tests, I still think it's important to have a stack of melons to see if heat distribution makes a difference. They'd have to go there anyway for full scale, so why not make a smaller version of it to begin with, so they understand the science of it if they get an actual result? Sifting through 2 cubic meters of melons to find out what happened where in the stack and why would be much easier than sifting through an entire trailer's worth after it's burned to the ground. After all, we don't just want to know what happens. We want to know why it happens. the point behind pressurizing it from an outside source is to determine if pressurizing it will make it explode at all, or if it fails way too soon to be called an explosion. |
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Post by silverdragon on Aug 4, 2014 14:36:06 GMT
We know why it happens already...
Or, we have theory-ied it through...
Is that even a word?...
Anyway, we "Suspect" that the insides super-heat, flash to instant steam, over-pressurise, and blow, like any contained "explosion".
The rind of the melon is key here.
This is the bit we do not know, ......yet...... the appliance of science is with us on this.
Will the rind allow a massive amount of heat flow and still stay intact enough to allow a pressure build up?...
Will it "Blister", and that its self crate this pressure blow.
This is what we need to find out.
My initial suspicion is that the rind will cook....
Thats kinda a "Duh!" moment, I know, but, its all in how it cooks.
Will it cook and solidify, or will it cook to mush....
And finally, does the type of Mellon matter.
Will Watermelons react different.
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