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Post by the light works on Sept 30, 2014 19:18:08 GMT
The pro-grade buffer would probably have to be used by the owner. A rig to put uniform scratches on the disks would at least have to be built by J&A, I don't know (since I don't know what they'd be building) if the kids could use it or not. But the kids should be able to use the home-grade buffer and all the DIY repairs. they could probably leave the professional machine off camera - just say they had sent a sample to the professionals for control #1. for the uniform damage, I would say, a simple scratching machine - pivot, balance arm, carbide spur, and weight. set the spur at the inside ring, and rotate the pivot to drag the spur across the disc. adjust the weight until you make an unplayable scratch, and then produce your samples.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 30, 2014 19:31:51 GMT
The pro-grade buffers are simple to use, being little more than more powerful versions of those available for the home. You just stick the disk in the machine, much as you would when putting a DVD/CD into a player close it and turn it on.
The simplest scratching rig would be a simple 'tray' lined with sandpaper along or down which the DVD is slid play-side down. Altering the type of sandpaper used would alter the degree of scratching, and they could also add in a top 'cover' which could either slide down the tray or contain a rotating belt that would move the disk along - which if designed well enough could be altered to give additional pressure on the disk as it is being slid along. This would be a simple enough build, since nothing in it would require anything they don't already have in the shop. Nor would it require any skills A&J don't have. They would need to so some tests to fine tune the rig - too much pressure and the scratches would be too deep even for professional equipment to deal with. (This would certainly apply to using different grades of sandpaper, since rougher sandpaper would require a larger gap and less pressure to avoid irreparable scratches).
This would give you as close to identical scratches on different disks as it is possible to get, as well as allowing for uniform scratching on a large number of disks in a very short period - probably a couple of minutes to get a dozen or so scratched disks. The biggest time-waster would be burning the disks themselves (unless they can get their hands on, say, a large number of MB DVD's from Discovery). I'm guessing that while they probably have some editing equipment at M5, they most likely lack the ability to burn off a large number of disks at once. But this isn't something A&J have to do themselves, and they could always get one or two people in the office busy burning disks the day before they need them.
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Post by the light works on Sept 30, 2014 19:39:59 GMT
The pro-grade buffers are simple to use, being little more than more powerful versions of those available for the home. You just stick the disk in the machine, much as you would when putting a DVD/CD into a player close it and turn it on. The simplest scratching rig would be a simple 'tray' lined with sandpaper along or down which the DVD is slid play-side down. Altering the type of sandpaper used would alter the degree of scratching, and they could also add in a top 'cover' which could either slide down the tray or contain a rotating belt that would move the disk along - which if designed well enough could be altered to give additional pressure on the disk as it is being slid along. This would be a simple enough build, since nothing in it would require anything they don't already have in the shop. Nor would it require any skills A&J don't have. They would need to so some tests to fine tune the rig - too much pressure and the scratches would be too deep even for professional equipment to deal with. (This would certainly apply to using different grades of sandpaper, since rougher sandpaper would require a larger gap and less pressure to avoid irreparable scratches). This would give you as close to identical scratches on different disks as it is possible to get, as well as allowing for uniform scratching on a large number of disks in a very short period - probably a couple of minutes to get a dozen or so scratched disks. The biggest time-waster would be burning the disks themselves (unless they can get their hands on, say, a large number of MB DVD's from Discovery). I'm guessing that while they probably have some editing equipment at M5, they most likely lack the ability to burn off a large number of disks at once. But this isn't something A&J have to do themselves, and they could always get one or two people in the office busy burning disks the day before they need them. it would probably be cheaper to simply buy a box of commercial CDs from whoever is willing to provide them without copyright entanglements. - as long as the master exists, commercial CDs cost about as much to produce as (blank) recordable CDs. heck, if I hadn't thrown them away, I would have cheerfully donated the case of discs I had left over from the ex GF I like to badmouth.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 30, 2014 19:58:17 GMT
The problem with copyright for music is that it isn't always clear who actually owns the rights. Even something like Mozart (which is technically public domain) might be copyrighted by the orchestra who made that particular recording, or (if say used on a soundtrack for a film) the rights to that version might be held by the studio who made the film, or the company who made the soundtrack available...or all three. (I did some checking on this for the hell of it a while back, and discovered that finding out who owns the copyright even for - if not especially for - older music is a nightmare.)
Although CD's would be simpler, DVD's would probably be more suitable for the show as they are more visual. Using DVD's does, however, add in an additional glitch - the studio logo and/or the copyright warning DVD's tend to have. It would be better for testing if they had a DVD that jumps right into the film - which means a custom edited DVD.
In either case it would be easier for them to use material where there is no question as to who owns the copyright. And the logical footage/music to use would be from Mythbusters itself. Unlike the myth about music setting off guns in a car, they don't need a specific type of music or scene. Just something that they can attempt to play to see if the disk can be read correctly.
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Post by the light works on Oct 1, 2014 5:07:10 GMT
The problem with copyright for music is that it isn't always clear who actually owns the rights. Even something like Mozart (which is technically public domain) might be copyrighted by the orchestra who made that particular recording, or (if say used on a soundtrack for a film) the rights to that version might be held by the studio who made the film, or the company who made the soundtrack available...or all three. (I did some checking on this for the hell of it a while back, and discovered that finding out who owns the copyright even for - if not especially for - older music is a nightmare.) Although CD's would be simpler, DVD's would probably be more suitable for the show as they are more visual. Using DVD's does, however, add in an additional glitch - the studio logo and/or the copyright warning DVD's tend to have. It would be better for testing if they had a DVD that jumps right into the film - which means a custom edited DVD. In either case it would be easier for them to use material where there is no question as to who owns the copyright. And the logical footage/music to use would be from Mythbusters itself. Unlike the myth about music setting off guns in a car, they don't need a specific type of music or scene. Just something that they can attempt to play to see if the disk can be read correctly. use the copyright warning as the test footage...
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Post by ironhold on Oct 31, 2014 23:07:16 GMT
Another variable for the newspaper throw -
It is true that flat-folded papers will not roll or bounce.
However, last night I had several flat-folded papers slide.
In each instance, they hit a driveway with a pronounced slope. Although we did have a bit of rain before I went out, most of these driveways were dry by the time I got there. The only variable I can think of is that due to some unknown reason, individual bags were slick or smooth enough to where gravity temporarily overcame friction.
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Post by the light works on Nov 1, 2014 2:56:34 GMT
Another variable for the newspaper throw - It is true that flat-folded papers will not roll or bounce. However, last night I had several flat-folded papers slide. In each instance, they hit a driveway with a pronounced slope. Although we did have a bit of rain before I went out, most of these driveways were dry by the time I got there. The only variable I can think of is that due to some unknown reason, individual bags were slick or smooth enough to where gravity temporarily overcame friction. meaning they slid back towards you?
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 1, 2014 13:30:19 GMT
Or someone greased the papers.....
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Post by the light works on Nov 1, 2014 14:03:52 GMT
Or someone greased the papers..... while I doubt somebody greased the papers, perhaps the wet floated things to the surface of the driveway, making it more slippery to a lightweight object like a newspaper in a plastic bag.
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Post by ironhold on Nov 1, 2014 21:31:11 GMT
Or someone greased the papers..... while I doubt somebody greased the papers, perhaps the wet floated things to the surface of the driveway, making it more slippery to a lightweight object like a newspaper in a plastic bag. ...except, these weren't thin papers. This past edition contained "The Hills", our bi-annual visitor's guide to the city. It's a 24-page magazine-sized insert printed on thick stock, almost like a glossy card stock. Between the paper itself, The Hills, and the other advertisements, I figure that each individual "package" weighs about a pound. (I would need to dig out my old postal scale to check for sure.) So unless the papers themselves were just heavy enough to where their own weight caused them to slide until friction took over,... As it is, this edition of The Hills was half as thick as it normally is; we often have as many as 50 pages in an edition. (I am going to try and save at least one unrolled sample and one tight spiral sample for reference; I threw all of my flat ones.)
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Post by the light works on Nov 1, 2014 22:56:43 GMT
while I doubt somebody greased the papers, perhaps the wet floated things to the surface of the driveway, making it more slippery to a lightweight object like a newspaper in a plastic bag. ...except, these weren't thin papers. This past edition contained "The Hills", our bi-annual visitor's guide to the city. It's a 24-page magazine-sized insert printed on thick stock, almost like a glossy card stock. Between the paper itself, The Hills, and the other advertisements, I figure that each individual "package" weighs about a pound. (I would need to dig out my old postal scale to check for sure.) So unless the papers themselves were just heavy enough to where their own weight caused them to slide until friction took over,... As it is, this edition of The Hills was half as thick as it normally is; we often have as many as 50 pages in an edition. (I am going to try and save at least one unrolled sample and one tight spiral sample for reference; I threw all of my flat ones.) so how many pounds per square inch does that add up to? another possibility is that the flat package traps air under it - further reducing the friction load.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 2, 2014 11:45:53 GMT
Or you got the perfect rigidity to create ground effect with the weight to surface area and it "Flew"....
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Post by the light works on Nov 2, 2014 15:23:58 GMT
Or you got the perfect rigidity to create ground effect with the weight to surface area and it "Flew".... I would consider that to be an "and" clause rather than an "or" clause.
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 3, 2014 9:08:06 GMT
Thats OK, I have my own orange thankyou. (But yes it can be either and or both)
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Post by ironhold on Nov 3, 2014 19:00:38 GMT
So, to restate the newspaper test -
Folded newspapers are supposedly faster and easier to produce & bag than rolled newspapers, as they require less effort. Additionally, although they can slide under certain circumstances, they are unlikely to bounce when thrown and so are more likely to stay in the spot where they land. In that sense, they would appear to be the best option.
However, folded newspapers are aerodynamic nightmares in that your thin lead edge is at the cost of a broad overall surface. As a result, folded newspapers can only be thrown like a disc because of the need to keep the thin lead edge towards the wind. Otherwise, if the broad surface is caught up, it creates a situation in which the folded paper can flop about like a loose kite.
In contrast, a properly-rolled paper done up in a sufficiently tight spiral has a uniform cross-section, and so is nowheres near as vulnerable to wind resistance or other such factors. Because of this, rolled newspapers can be thrown in ways that folded papers cannot, including "over-the-roof" (in which a paper is thrown over the head of the person throwing, allowing them to serve customers on both sides of a street without turning around), underhand (so as to clear obstructions like fences), and "dagger-style" (grabbing the paper from one end and throwing like a knife so as to land the paper in a narrow space, such as a crowded driveway).
In that sense, is one way of folding a paper superior to the others, and if so under what circumstances?
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Post by ironhold on Dec 20, 2014 4:27:42 GMT
All righty then.
The editor has a standing policy that if we have newspapers left over after we've done up enough to satisfy all paying customers / special requests and we have enough left to meet a minimum reserve, we are to distribute what is left to various people along our routes with special inserts inviting people to subscribe.
Well, one of my co-workers flaked out on me again.
Normally, we have so many papers being distributed to the various schools as part of the Newspapers In Education initiative. But since it's Christmas vacation, those papers now have to go out as well.
My car may be a beloved beast of burden, but even it has its limits. So to deal with the "internal space" limitation, I decided to flat-fold all of these papers, and pressed them down extra-hard to make them as flat as possible.
This was a bad idea.
We had a storm come through as I was out, and the winds continued to blow even after the storm left. Said flat-fold papers were flopping like professional athletes. I'd toss one out the window and the wind would pick it up and take it God knows where.
Sadly, the flat folds did nothing to address the issue of "cargo weight limitations". Between the cold and the weight my car actually stalled. My dad said he'd check it out in the morning, but if we get another cold snap then I'm in a bind.
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Post by the light works on Dec 21, 2014 16:06:35 GMT
All righty then. The editor has a standing policy that if we have newspapers left over after we've done up enough to satisfy all paying customers / special requests and we have enough left to meet a minimum reserve, we are to distribute what is left to various people along our routes with special inserts inviting people to subscribe. Well, one of my co-workers flaked out on me again. Normally, we have so many papers being distributed to the various schools as part of the Newspapers In Education initiative. But since it's Christmas vacation, those papers now have to go out as well. My car may be a beloved beast of burden, but even it has its limits. So to deal with the "internal space" limitation, I decided to flat-fold all of these papers, and pressed them down extra-hard to make them as flat as possible. This was a bad idea. We had a storm come through as I was out, and the winds continued to blow even after the storm left. Said flat-fold papers were flopping like professional athletes. I'd toss one out the window and the wind would pick it up and take it God knows where. Sadly, the flat folds did nothing to address the issue of "cargo weight limitations". Between the cold and the weight my car actually stalled. My dad said he'd check it out in the morning, but if we get another cold snap then I'm in a bind. that leaves me thinking you could probably not get the distance with flat folded paper in a controlled environment. a perfectly flat disc that is light enough to be affected by aerodynamics will not be stable in flight. - and a flat stick would be the same.
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Post by ironhold on Dec 26, 2014 22:43:02 GMT
I had another flat-fold paper slide this morning.
We haven't had rain in a few days, and so I can eliminate that as a variable.
My guess is that it's the bags themselves, as some bags are slicker or coarser than others. If the team does go for the myth, then they'll need some way to compensate for possibly poor quality control.
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2014 1:23:15 GMT
I had another flat-fold paper slide this morning. We haven't had rain in a few days, and so I can eliminate that as a variable. My guess is that it's the bags themselves, as some bags are slicker or coarser than others. If the team does go for the myth, then they'll need some way to compensate for possibly poor quality control. I'm still thinking we have some ground effect aerodynamics helping it slip more easily.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 27, 2014 11:54:18 GMT
I had a flat slide this morning.... Went base over apex in a car park, slid the length of my car. OUCH!......
{Yes I am ok, I just dented my pride is all....)
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