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Post by the light works on Dec 20, 2014 14:11:30 GMT
there are a plethora of myths out there about the venerable model T; some old and some modern. we've already pointed out in another thread that Henry Ford did not say "you can get it in any color you like, as long as it's black" but there are several myths I have heard:
a Model T will not get stuck in the mud. (explanation; the tall thin tires had a better chance of finding traction in soft mud than wider tires of the era)
the best way to get up a steep hill is backwards. (I've heard two explanations, one is that reverse gear was the lowest gear ratio, and the other is that the fuel fed by gravity, and too steep a hill would leave the carburetor higher than the fuel tank.)
a model T is theft proof because a modern person will not be able to figure out how to make it go. (this may be a bit of a challenge to find someone who is willing to let someone fiddle with their car)
if you crank a model T wrong, it will break your arm. (this might be a bit tricky to test; the root of it is that a model T can backfire and if it does, the crank will be forced backwards - done properly, the crank will pull out of your hand. done improperly, the crank will force your hand in such a manner as to injure you.
starting a model T is hard work. (I've seen from youtube videos that this is a question of skill and experience.)
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Post by ironhold on Dec 20, 2014 21:24:38 GMT
Aren't there some organizations that make reproduction Model T vehicles?
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 21, 2014 0:18:47 GMT
The first two would seem testable, and without having to have a model T or reproduction car.
Maybe similar myths relating to design features that don't require a specific make and model?
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 21, 2014 13:50:09 GMT
Quite possible....
The thing about having a non standard layout of foot operated gear change and hand throttle is sensible to bikers but no so to modern car drivers.
This also brings into question other cars around the world that didnt have the modern universal three pedal layout we all have today.
Obvious three pedal is Manual, they didnt do automatic....
Or did they?... is that a myth that there wasnt any automatics back then?..(By people who dont know how to google...)(This is a show idea after all.....)
This brings in how long it took to invent the automatic gear box.
1904 for a two speed. Hydromatic was 1939 or there about....
There is also a myth that some drivers would take quite elaborate diversions rather than change gear...
This is because it took so long to change gear some drivers would do Anything rather than slow down....
I have heard that at that time it wasnt a learned response to do an emergency stop, and drivers who had minimal (If any) training just panicked and at best could only just remember how to steer round an object.
Again, back then, they didnt have our hindsight of correct training, they were all just winging it.
Plus the brakes were bloody awful at best, they wouldnt have stopped even if they tried.
Or again, was that a myth?
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 21, 2014 13:52:14 GMT
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Post by the light works on Dec 21, 2014 14:50:46 GMT
the issue with replicas for the first two tests would be if the replica is functionally the same. I.E you couldn't test the fuel flow myth if your replica has a modern fuel cell under the chassis with an electric fuel pump.
as for the automatic transmission myth - I submit that the oldest transmission I know of that operated by means of clutches instead of sliding gears was on... the model T.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 22, 2014 10:20:15 GMT
The gear change on model T was manual...
At one point you have to stand on a pedal to hold a gear.
I am talking fully manual, as in the car does all the work.
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Post by Antigone68104 on Dec 22, 2014 11:30:11 GMT
if you crank a model T wrong, it will break your arm. (this might be a bit tricky to test; the root of it is that a model T can backfire and if it does, the crank will be forced backwards - done properly, the crank will pull out of your hand. done improperly, the crank will force your hand in such a manner as to injure you. This was common knowledge at the time. One of my reference books quotes a 1920 advertisement for a "non-kick device" for your Ford, that specifically states it would prevent sprained wrists and broken arms. I believe it's also referred to in "Only Yesterday", which is a history of the 1920s published in 1931 -- I'll see if I can find my copy to confirm. (If not, I may grab the Kindle version, it's worth reading.) OK, so advertisers are known to lie, but if the risk of arm injury from cranking a Model T was made up by the advertisers when most of their readers either owned a T or knew someone who did, they would have been laughed out of business. Similarly, Frederick Lewis Allen wasn't going to trash his reputation by printing a statement about the T that could so easily be proven wrong. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 22, 2014 15:30:04 GMT
if you crank a model T wrong, it will break your arm. (this might be a bit tricky to test; the root of it is that a model T can backfire and if it does, the crank will be forced backwards - done properly, the crank will pull out of your hand. done improperly, the crank will force your hand in such a manner as to injure you. This was common knowledge at the time. One of my reference books quotes a 1920 advertisement for a "non-kick device" for your Ford, that specifically states it would prevent sprained wrists and broken arms. I believe it's also referred to in "Only Yesterday", which is a history of the 1920s published in 1931 -- I'll see if I can find my copy to confirm. (If not, I may grab the Kindle version, it's worth reading.) OK, so advertisers are known to lie, but if the risk of arm injury from cranking a Model T was made up by the advertisers when most of their readers either owned a T or knew someone who did, they would have been laughed out of business. Similarly, Frederick Lewis Allen wasn't going to trash his reputation by printing a statement about the T that could so easily be proven wrong. I know it is true - I've watched a few things that explain it. that said, the "as seen on TV" industry is built around making up problems that intelligent people know are completely wrong. (who knew it was so difficult to flip a pancake?) |
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Post by GTCGreg on Dec 22, 2014 16:37:43 GMT
that said, the "as seen on TV" industry is built around making up problems that intelligent people know are completely wrong. (who knew it was so difficult to flip a pancake?) Intelligent (as in Technicolor) people know, but those ads are geared for monochrome people. After all, the Model T was a monochrome car. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 22, 2014 17:14:42 GMT
I was referring to intelligent as in coming up positive on an IQ test.
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 23, 2014 14:40:38 GMT
Kicking over an engine.
Anyone of my age who has experience the old Brit Bikes will know this....
Take the Norton Commando.
750cc engine... with a kick start...
You kick with the knee bent.
If you dont, you are going over the handlebars.... I have seen people fly from kicking an old BPL long stroke engine over and getting a kickback.
[BPL... the nose an old long stroke made got the acronym from Bops-Per-Lamppost....?...]
Hand cranking an old engine... My first driving experience was in a car with the hole in the front bumper to insert the starting handle...
My Dad had had a few.
It had an electric starter, but in those days they were not all that reliable, and the battery would drain overnight without any warning.
Heck, my First mini, because where we lived had a few hills, I always parked where I could get a rolling start down the hill so I could bump start the engine, as I never fully trusted my starter?...
But hand cranking an engine, yes, I can remember those days... not too fondly either....
Especially if you had a bozo at the wheel who got it wrong and stalled it almost as soon as it caught?....
My first bikes, it was well into the late 70's and 80's before I even owned an electric start machine.
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Post by the light works on Dec 23, 2014 15:08:11 GMT
Kicking over an engine. Anyone of my age who has experience the old Brit Bikes will know this.... Take the Norton Commando. 750cc engine... with a kick start... You kick with the knee bent. If you dont, you are going over the handlebars.... I have seen people fly from kicking an old BPL long stroke engine over and getting a kickback. [BPL... the nose an old long stroke made got the acronym from Bops-Per-Lamppost....?...] Hand cranking an old engine... My first driving experience was in a car with the hole in the front bumper to insert the starting handle... My Dad had had a few. It had an electric starter, but in those days they were not all that reliable, and the battery would drain overnight without any warning. Heck, my First mini, because where we lived had a few hills, I always parked where I could get a rolling start down the hill so I could bump start the engine, as I never fully trusted my starter?... But hand cranking an engine, yes, I can remember those days... not too fondly either.... Especially if you had a bozo at the wheel who got it wrong and stalled it almost as soon as it caught?.... My first bikes, it was well into the late 70's and 80's before I even owned an electric start machine. my lawnmower has a 15 HP "thumper" you learn pretty quickly that there's a special touch used in pulling big engines over. you don't just give a quick yank and expect it to pay attention to you. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 23, 2014 15:12:13 GMT
I can go as far as an old single cylinder Diesel git known as a "Bolinder"....
Mostly used by old canal craft.
To start, you will need a blow-torch and patience... you will have to pre-warm the cylinder head.
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Post by the light works on Dec 23, 2014 15:30:41 GMT
I can go as far as an old single cylinder Diesel git known as a "Bolinder".... Mostly used by old canal craft. To start, you will need a blow-torch and patience... you will have to pre-warm the cylinder head. seen those on youtube. another great one on youtube is old single cylinder stationary engines. you see some clips that make it look easy (relatively speaking) and some that make you wonder if it would have been easier for the guy to hand crank whatever the motor was to operate. |
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Post by c64 on Jan 25, 2015 23:02:02 GMT
a Model T will not get stuck in the mud. (explanation; the tall thin tires had a better chance of finding traction in soft mud than wider tires of the era) Back then, most cars didn't had a differential gear so they only had one single driven wheel. The T as well as all cars using differential gears were advertised as not becoming stuck. the best way to get up a steep hill is backwards. (I've heard two explanations, one is that reverse gear was the lowest gear ratio, and the other is that the fuel fed by gravity, and too steep a hill would leave the carburetor higher than the fuel tank.) While the problem with the carburettor and lacking fuel pump may be true, pulling something is best done in reverse gear because the vehicle can't "rear up". Ancient farming tractors have the same or higher gear ratio for the reverse gear but you are limited by the force that lets your tractor ground its tool bar. Pulling lumber (without wheels) or plowing is best done in reverse under extreme circumstances. a model T is theft proof because a modern person will not be able to figure out how to make it go. (this may be a bit of a challenge to find someone who is willing to let someone fiddle with their car) Only nowadays. You need to know how to adjust the ignition timing to start up and to start going. ALso you need to know how to operate the pedals. Everything engine related you do with the hands, everything transmission related is done by the feet. The same is soon true for my car. Just engage the hand brake and lock the steering wheel. Everybody not older than 20 years old can't figure out how to turn the key. You need to wiggle the steering wheel a bit on old cars. Modern cars use an electric steering wheel lock. ALso modern cars use electric parking brakes. And it won't take long until young people keep looking for the "start" button. if you crank a model T wrong, it will break your arm. (this might be a bit tricky to test; the root of it is that a model T can backfire and if it does, the crank will be forced backwards - done properly, the crank will pull out of your hand. done improperly, the crank will force your hand in such a manner as to injure you. starting a model T is hard work. (I've seen from youtube videos that this is a question of skill and experience.) This is true for all crank started engines. If the engine starts up the wrong way or the crank is stuck, it will revolve violently. The Lanz Farming tractors use the steering wheel as a crank because the engine can start into both directions and you don't crank it on, you "wiggle" it on. Never put your thumbs into the steering wheel and you are fine. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 25, 2015 23:12:36 GMT
the steering/starter linkage on a lantz must be rather complex.
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Post by GTCGreg on Jan 26, 2015 1:00:51 GMT
the steering/starter linkage on a lantz must be rather complex. Actually, it's pretty simple. You pull off the steering wheel and insert it into the fly wheel. Give it a spin, and you're good to go. Just remember to remove it and put it back where it belongs. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 26, 2015 1:41:41 GMT
the steering/starter linkage on a lantz must be rather complex. Actually, it's pretty simple. You pull off the steering wheel and insert it into the fly wheel. Give it a spin, and you're good to go. Just remember to remove it and put it back where it belongs. aha, I misunderstood. I thought he meant it was used through the steering column, rather than being moved to the flywheel. the old big stationary motors used to be started with that "bounce" technique, too. |
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Post by wvengineer on Jan 26, 2015 3:02:25 GMT
A common Model T myth is that it get better gas mileage than a modern Ford car. I know some simple research would quickly prove that one false, but it still floats around out there.
Model T vs Ford Focus mileage race? Actually sounds more like a gig for Grant, with him being a spokesman for McNope's now.
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