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Post by Lokifan on Feb 21, 2015 6:17:08 GMT
Chainsaws are frequently depicted in films as a decent improvised weapon (Army of Darkness, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, etc.).
I've long maintained that it is nonsense. Yes, a chainsaw is dangerous, but a simple sword is far superior in ease of use and even damage inflicted, as a saw needs time to rip its way in, where a sword (or ax) could do equal or greater damage almost instantaneously. Chainsaws are heavy, unwieldly, and in general an inferior choice for chopping people up.
Let's put it to the test. Have a Buster (or other analogue) face the saw and analyze the results. Perhaps compare it to sword or ax.
Lots of smashy, noisy, gory TV goodness...
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Post by the light works on Feb 21, 2015 7:25:59 GMT
Chainsaws are frequently depicted in films as a decent improvised weapon (Army of Darkness, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, etc.). I've long maintained that it is nonsense. Yes, a chainsaw is dangerous, but a simple sword is far superior in ease of use and even damage inflicted, as a saw needs time to rip its way in, where a sword (or ax) could do equal or greater damage almost instantaneously. Chainsaws are heavy, unwieldly, and in general an inferior choice for chopping people up. Let's put it to the test. Have a Buster (or other analogue) face the saw and analyze the results. Perhaps compare it to sword or ax. Lots of smashy, noisy, gory TV goodness... I am inclined to agree with you. chain saws chew instead of hacking or slicing; and they aren't exactly light or nimble. on the other hand, they are pretty effective in the shock and awe department. |
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Post by rmc on Feb 21, 2015 16:38:58 GMT
For unlikely combatants (people not at all trained in the art of warfare of any kind) would the mere sound and size of the chain saw produce a sort of 'shock and awe' in the intended victim? Whereas, the sword could be equally shocking to such victim, wouldn't the sound alone cause some to recoil? It sure does at the local Halloween haunted house that's put on each year, where they have a chainsaw (without chain) that seems to rip into unsuspecting visitors and you can really see them recoil! Http://www.cuttingedgehauntedhouse.com/pr/Cutting_Edge_Haunted_House_Chainsaw.jpgI suppose it could be the costume causing some of the horror. But, it is sort of dark and the noise usually comes up first. Hard to tell. Halloween haunted houses usually include an assault on so many different levels. |
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Post by ironhold on Feb 21, 2015 22:44:13 GMT
One thing in favor of the chainsaw is its ready availability. You can go to pretty much any hardware, farm supply, or home improvement store in America and find one (even if only seasonally). On the other hand, good luck finding a decent sword in this day and age.
But if we're looking at swords vs. chainsaws, how about adding bayonets and machetes into the mix? Machetes lose out on range and dedicated design, but they tend to be fairly common as well. Bayonets would actually tie this myth back into the DOOM episode, as an early beta of the original games had a bayonet (which the protagonist, as a USMC Marine, might have reasonably had with his kit) as the melee weapon in lieu of a chainsaw (which individual writers have had to retcon).
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 22, 2015 13:18:13 GMT
One thought about effectiveness is that the chainsaw would produce a rougher, wider wound that would be harder to treat. A chainsaw blade is usually ~1/4" in width, and would remove that much flesh. I would think that a chainsaw is also likely to tear out flesh by the small chunk. Whereas a sword would be more of a slicing motion leaving the flesh cut, but intact.
I'm no EMT, but I would think that the missing flesh would be harder to stabilize and contain blood loss than a sliced limed where you can put pressure to reduce blood loss.
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2015 14:50:04 GMT
One thought about effectiveness is that the chainsaw would produce a rougher, wider wound that would be harder to treat. A chainsaw blade is usually ~1/4" in width, and would remove that much flesh. I would think that a chainsaw is also likely to tear out flesh by the small chunk. Whereas a sword would be more of a slicing motion leaving the flesh cut, but intact. I'm no EMT, but I would think that the missing flesh would be harder to stabilize and contain blood loss than a sliced limed where you can put pressure to reduce blood loss. this is true. however, on the other hand, it doesn't take much to derail a saw chain and then you have a very heavy, unvweildy, stick. |
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 22, 2015 21:54:36 GMT
While I an not a professional tree cutter, I have used a chainsaw on plenty of occasions. I have only had a chain come off once and in that case, it was a poorly maintained saws. I have never had a chain come off on a properly operated and maintained saw.
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2015 21:57:51 GMT
While I an not a professional tree cutter, I have used a chainsaw on plenty of occasions. I have only had a chain come off once and in that case, it was a poorly maintained saws. I have never had a chain come off on a properly operated and maintained saw. last time I read the owner's manual on my saw, it didn't list attacking people as a proper operating procedure. I've seen chains derailed enough times to be familiar with the particular sound it makes. - and if someone comes at me with a saw, and just running away isn't an option, I am going to take an implement and do my best to derail the chain. |
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 22, 2015 23:37:52 GMT
So how do you intentionally derail a chainsaw?
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2015 23:40:57 GMT
So how do you intentionally derail a chainsaw? get a bite and twist.if you can stretch the chain and flex it, it will pop of pretty easily. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 23, 2015 11:11:14 GMT
I have a chainsaw... its bloody heavy.
Heavier than a two-handed bar-steward sword of the highlander type even
Use as weapon?...
Doubtful, unless you wish to stand still a moment?....
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 23, 2015 12:43:54 GMT
I suspect that they would consider this too dangerous.
First is that chainsaws are, as is noted above, fairly common and as such there is far too much risk of someone deciding to 'try this at home'. With potentially fatal results.
Second is that testing would be considered FAR to dangerous, if the saw bounces back its going to hit the user. This isn't a situation where they could use a rig, as determining if it makes a practical weapon would require trying to swing and manipulate a working chainsaw by hand. Anything you could wear to protect you against a chainsaw with any real degree of success would be so bulky as to make waving one around almost impossible.
Aside; The weights I'm seeing for fairly normal domestic chainsaws are around 14lbs (presumably this includes fuel weight). Off the top of my head I think the largest Greatswords topped off at around 10lbs in weight - although these seem to have been for show rather than combat. A more usual weight was around 7lbs.
Of course the weight of a sword is rather different to that of a chainsaw, as the former is balanced to allow it to be swung quickly while the latter isn't. Trees don't usually manage or attempt to dodge blows.
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Post by kharnynb on Feb 23, 2015 15:10:23 GMT
If you're at the hardware store anyway, a good fiskars chopping axe or a decent sledgehammer might be much easier.
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Post by the light works on Feb 23, 2015 16:02:48 GMT
my saw was specifically selected for its power to weight ratio. it weighs about 11 pounds. in all honesty, if I were to wish to do someone bodily harm, I would grab it before my lawnmower, but I have a whole bucket of hand tools that would work better for the purpose.
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 23, 2015 23:59:23 GMT
For power to weight ratio, they are coming out now with semi practical battery powered chainsaws. Electric units are much lighter than gas version and even the weight of the 40V battery would still keep it quite a bit lighter than gas and without the severer limitation of a cord. Kobalt 40V Cordless ChainsawThe above unit is 9 lbs, maybe a bit more with bar oil, but only had a 12" blade, which would limit usefulness, but I imagine you could swap out a longer one if you wanted. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 24, 2015 0:11:42 GMT
For power to weight ratio, they are coming out now with semi practical battery powered chainsaws. Electric units are much lighter than gas version and even the weight of the 40V battery would still keep it quite a bit lighter than gas and without the severer limitation of a cord. Kobalt 40V Cordless ChainsawThe above unit is 9 lbs, maybe a bit more with bar oil, but only had a 12" blade, which would limit usefulness, but I imagine you could swap out a longer one if you wanted. that doesn't list the horsepower. mine is 3.2 bhp at 10.6 pounds. I doubt the kobalt could do this: Attachment Deleted |
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Post by OziRiS on Mar 1, 2015 22:00:26 GMT
I have to admit, even though a sword, axe or even a hammer might be easier to handle, if someone came at me with a chainsaw, I'd try to get away as fast as I could.
Trying to derail it? Unless I had some sort of chain that I could swing at it, so I wouldn't have to get my hands near it, I wouldn't even try. Sure, you could get some sort of straight metal piece, but if it fails to catch the teeth, the bounce alone could possibly work the saw up the metal to your fingers or just rip your metal thing right out of your hands. If you held on tightly enough, you might not break your fingers or hand from the bounce, but you'd get a decent smack that might reverberate all the way up through your arm. That might be enough to make you recoil and need a second to get your bearings again. Pain of any sort is good at temporarily incapacitating someone, so that would give your attacker a couple of seconds to get a hit in.
Either way, for most people, just the thought of having that thing take chunks out of their hands and arms would be enough to make them not want to go near it. That might not make it a great weapon for attacking someone, but it sure makes it a great defensive weapon.
If you wanted to attack me and I had a running chainsaw in my hands that I just kept moving around so it was constantly between us, blade facing you at all times, would you charge ahead?
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Post by the light works on Mar 1, 2015 23:24:09 GMT
I have to admit, even though a sword, axe or even a hammer might be easier to handle, if someone came at me with a chainsaw, I'd try to get away as fast as I could. Trying to derail it? Unless I had some sort of chain that I could swing at it, so I wouldn't have to get my hands near it, I wouldn't even try. Sure, you could get some sort of straight metal piece, but if it fails to catch the teeth, the bounce alone could possibly work the saw up the metal to your fingers or just rip your metal thing right out of your hands. If you held on tightly enough, you might not break your fingers or hand from the bounce, but you'd get a decent smack that might reverberate all the way up through your arm. That might be enough to make you recoil and need a second to get your bearings again. Pain of any sort is good at temporarily incapacitating someone, so that would give your attacker a couple of seconds to get a hit in. Either way, for most people, just the thought of having that thing take chunks out of their hands and arms would be enough to make them not want to go near it. That might not make it a great weapon for attacking someone, but it sure makes it a great defensive weapon. If you wanted to attack me and I had a running chainsaw in my hands that I just kept moving around so it was constantly between us, blade facing you at all times, would you charge ahead? which is why I specified running away had to not be an option and that I would use an implement. say a pitchfork. if I missed the saw, oh, well. |
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Post by silverdragon on Mar 2, 2015 9:34:56 GMT
Maybe yes.
If I had the ability to grab something that can be used as some form of shield....
Here is the think, the blade of a chainsaw takes time to work.
Its not a hack-and-slash weapon by its very nature.
So if something could be used to slow down the blade, ....
I am mindful of say using a coat to jam up the blade, especially if the coat was a nylon padding filled thing that would melt into strands type of thing, effectively glueing up the works, or maybe a chain mail type thing?...
All it would need is a second to delay you, then the rush of my charge may knock you off your feet.
I may even disarm you.
Then there is the length of the blade...
Longer blades take time to swing, if I can duck under your swing and get inside your radius, again, you are off your feet.
Back to my original statement, I have knowledge of long swords, and their use...
I aint no expert in the swinging of such myself, I am not that fast, but I know the theory, and that is to make sure your own swing counts.
They are large heavy and not close quarter weapons, so anyone who can get close to you is going to get under your weapon and more or less take away your advantage....
I am suspecting it may be the same with Chainsaws...
The longer the blade, the more so.
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Post by the light works on Mar 2, 2015 15:23:03 GMT
Maybe yes. If I had the ability to grab something that can be used as some form of shield.... Here is the think, the blade of a chainsaw takes time to work. Its not a hack-and-slash weapon by its very nature. So if something could be used to slow down the blade, .... I am mindful of say using a coat to jam up the blade, especially if the coat was a nylon padding filled thing that would melt into strands type of thing, effectively glueing up the works, or maybe a chain mail type thing?... All it would need is a second to delay you, then the rush of my charge may knock you off your feet. I may even disarm you. Then there is the length of the blade... Longer blades take time to swing, if I can duck under your swing and get inside your radius, again, you are off your feet. Back to my original statement, I have knowledge of long swords, and their use... I aint no expert in the swinging of such myself, I am not that fast, but I know the theory, and that is to make sure your own swing counts. They are large heavy and not close quarter weapons, so anyone who can get close to you is going to get under your weapon and more or less take away your advantage.... I am suspecting it may be the same with Chainsaws... The longer the blade, the more so. I've fought with a few guys who though that about greatswords... a quilted garment has very good odds of jamming the chain. the chain saw chaps loggers wear are essentially midweight nylon chaps (heavy enough to prevent minor snags from tearing them open) quilted with long kevlar fibers. they don't work by preventing the saw from cutting through the chaps - they work by jamming the chain when it cuts into them. I guess the other side of the coin is we have a fairly large hunting population, around here, and there are those in the hunting population who will buy a cheap electric chain saw, and use olive oil or vegetable oil for chain lube and use it to cut up their large game instead of paying a butcher or buying a high dollar meat saw. |
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