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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 19, 2016 18:50:25 GMT
Reminds me of an old Jeep Cherokee I owned. Just after my daughter got her driver's license, I bought her a used Jeep Cherokee. The car ran OK but the "check engine" light was always coming on. First it was a bad spark plug wire, then the O2 sensor, finally I just gave up trying to fix it as long as it was running well. Then one day my daughter called me in a near panic saying something was wrong with the Jeep. I asked her what the problems was. She said she didn't know, it was running ok, but the check engine light went out.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 19, 2016 18:53:54 GMT
Reminds me of an old Jeep Cherokee I owned. Just after my daughter got her driver's license, I bought her a used Jeep Cherokee. The car ran OK but the "check engine" light was always coming on. First it was a bad spark plug wire, then the O 2 sensor, finally I just gave up trying to fix it as long as it was running well. Then one day my daughter called me in a near panic saying something was wrong with the Jeep. I asked her what the problems was. She said she didn't know, it was running ok, but the check engine light went out. LOL!  Yeah, I've read that thing is pretty much a catch-all warning light. Everything from serious engine trouble to excessive amounts of air in the fuel tank can apparently set it off. Makes it hard to figure out whether you've got a serious problem or something trivial on your hands. |
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Post by ponytail61 on Apr 20, 2016 2:22:49 GMT
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 20, 2016 6:15:48 GMT
Good.
Mine having less than 40% of full viability, and the guy that tested it was not trying to sell me a battery, still started the car.
[He told me a good place to buy a good battery and which one would be best... 5yr guarantee]
Being able to start the car does not mean the battery is good.
Being able to start the car three times from cold within 5 mins is a minimum requirement....
Mine still would start 4 or 5 times from cold, I know this, because when I had problems, I had to do this a number of times.
How old is the battery?. If its more than 5 yrs old, plan on replacing it anyway?... just before it catches you out in winter.
And try that cold start procedure and see how many times it starts without starting to groan under pressure.....
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 20, 2016 10:15:04 GMT
I've played around with a couple of those before and to be honest, the codes they spit out don't help me much. Seems to me you have to know a lot more about cars than I do to get anything useful from them, because they're usually not very specific. They tell you there's a fault in some sort of system, but working out where in that system the fault is and what exactly causes it requires some knowledge that I just don't have. I'm not a mechanic or an electrician or something like that and I never had a dad to teach me any of this stuff, so in most cases - even though I might know what and where the problem is - I'm too afraid I'll break something that'll be even more expensive to repair. Taking apart various bits of my car to figure out if the fault is in one place or the other and possibly braking something along the way is just not something I can afford to do. |
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 20, 2016 10:18:25 GMT
Good. Mine having less than 40% of full viability, and the guy that tested it was not trying to sell me a battery, still started the car. [He told me a good place to buy a good battery and which one would be best... 5yr guarantee] Being able to start the car does not mean the battery is good. Being able to start the car three times from cold within 5 mins is a minimum requirement.... Mine still would start 4 or 5 times from cold, I know this, because when I had problems, I had to do this a number of times. How old is the battery?. If its more than 5 yrs old, plan on replacing it anyway?... just before it catches you out in winter. And try that cold start procedure and see how many times it starts without starting to groan under pressure..... Seeing as the mechanic doesn't seem to think the battery is the problem, I need to test it myself or get someone else to do it for me before I go out and buy a new one. I don't know what the price tag is on car batteries in the US/UK, but the cheapest one I can find over here is around £85/$120 and there's no 5 year warranty on that, so it's not something I want to invest in unless I know there's good reason to. Anyone know of a good way to test a battery? I've got a multimeter if that helps in any way... |
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 20, 2016 10:37:20 GMT
Not that way unless you want blown electronics.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 20, 2016 11:41:40 GMT
Not that way unless you want blown electronics. And that's why I asked |
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Post by GTCGreg on Apr 20, 2016 14:14:18 GMT
Not that way unless you want blown electronics. And that's why I asked If the battery holds it's charge and cranks the engine OK, there is probably nothing wrong with it. That said, the way they usually test car batteries is to measure the voltage under a heavy load. They have special testers that do this. But you really don't need a special tester, just a digital volt meter. It will take two people. One holds the voltmeter probes on the battery terminals and monitors the voltage. A "good" fully charged battery should read around 12.6 volts with the engine off and no load on it. Next have the second person crank the engine. If the battery voltage drops below 9.5 volts while the engine is cranking, replace it. If you want to check your alternator, you can do it just as easily. Start the engine and turn on your headlights. Now measure the voltage across the battery. You should read a voltage between 13.5 and 14.5 volts. If the voltage with the engine running is below 13 volts, your charging system isn't working properly. |
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 20, 2016 19:24:51 GMT
And that's why I asked If the battery holds it's charge and cranks the engine OK, there is probably nothing wrong with it. That said, the way they usually test car batteries is to measure the voltage under a heavy load. They have special testers that do this. But you really don't need a special tester, just a digital volt meter. It will take two people. One holds the voltmeter probes on the battery terminals and monitors the voltage. A "good" fully charged battery should read around 12.6 volts with the engine off and no load on it. Next have the second person crank the engine. If the battery voltage drops below 9.5 volts while the engine is cranking, replace it. If you want to check your alternator, you can do it just as easily. Start the engine and turn on your headlights. Now measure the voltage across the battery. You should read a voltage between 13.5 and 14.5 volts. If the voltage with the engine running is below 13 volts, your charging system isn't working properly. And could this be done with a multimeter - which measures ohms, watts and volts - or would that be incapable of handling that much juice? |
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Post by Lokifan on Apr 21, 2016 0:16:21 GMT
It should handle juice fine, as long as you set it to read volts.
Even a cheap multimeter usually offers about 10M ohms resistance, so the worst current you'd be seeing with 12 volts is 1.2 microamps.
I've tested multiple car batteries/charging systems using GTCGreg's method, and I never saw even a spark when connecting a meter.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 21, 2016 0:46:55 GMT
It should handle juice fine, as long as you set it to read volts. Even a cheap multimeter usually offers about 10M ohms resistance, so the worst current you'd be seeing with 12 volts is 1.2 microamps. I've tested multiple car batteries/charging systems using GTCGreg's method, and I never saw even a spark when connecting a meter. Cool, I'll ask Girlfriend to help me tomorrow and I'll give it a shot. Thanks  |
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Post by the light works on Apr 21, 2016 0:46:59 GMT
It should handle juice fine, as long as you set it to read volts. Even a cheap multimeter usually offers about 10M ohms resistance, so the worst current you'd be seeing with 12 volts is 1.2 microamps. I've tested multiple car batteries/charging systems using GTCGreg's method, and I never saw even a spark when connecting a meter. I concur - if it is a miltiplug multimeter, make sure the leads are plugged in correctly - you are measuring voltage, so as long as the meter is rated above 24V (to give room for surge) it will do it. |
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Post by c64 on Apr 23, 2016 16:29:59 GMT
I've run into a new problem with the car and I'm hoping one of you can help. The problem is electronic, there's no doubt about it. It's downright weird. It all started with my electronic "parking disc" only working internittantly. For those who might know what that is, it's this thing:  I still have this problem and up until a few weeks ago, I thought I just needed to replace it, but now I'm not so sure. First weird thing that happened after this was the "check engine" light flashing on and off for no apparent reason. Then one day the key fob suddenly didn't work. I was trying to unlock the car and it just wouldn't. Unlocked it manually and all of a sudden, the key fob worked again. It worked for about a week and then one day I couldn't lock it. Did it manually again, the fob worked afterwards and has been working ever since. And before you ask about the battery in the fob, it's not that. Girlfriend's key fob didn't work either and hers had the battery changed about a year ago. That also worked again once I'd done the manual thing. Last week I was waiting for Girlfriend outside the pharmacy and rolled down both front windows. When she came out and I started the car, the passenger side window wouldn't close again. We drove home and I figured that with all the electrical stuff that's been going on with the car lately, I'd try a hard reset. I disconnected the battery, reconnected it and the window suddenly worked again. Haven't had a problem with it since, but the parking disc and "check engine" light are still doing weird things. Within the last couple of days, even more weird electrical stuff has happened. The preheating lamp has started blinking all the time (it's a diesel, so it has that little coil symbol that lights up before the engine starts to let you know that it's preheating and you shouldn't start the engine until it turns off) and two days ago, the cruise control just suddenly stopped working. That last one was a pain in the butt, because it died as we were headed for Germany - a 1½ hour drive on the freeway. I've been thinking that I might just need a new battery to at least take care of some of the problems. It certainly seems there's something wrong there considering the whole hard reset deal with the window problem, but I've tried it again to see if it would fix any of the other stuff and it hasn't. I've read somewhere that there's a known problem with VWs and Seats where a faulty brake light switch can apparently cause the problems with the preheating lamp and the cruise control and since Skoda is pretty much a VW/Seat wearing a different hat, that might hold true for my car as well. In that case, does anyone know if that's a relatively easy thing to fix, or should I leave that to a mechanic (C64, I'm guessing you would have some knowledge on this)? It's not that I don't want to spend the money on taking it to the machanic, but I'd like to at least know what's wrong with it before I do. I know I've said earlier in this thread that I've found a mechanic I can work with, but a lot of bad experience in the past has left me less than trusting of these people. Knowing what needs fixing helps ensure they don't make stuff up that I have to pay for. How is your parking disc wired to the car? Usually they run on an internal battery or just tap "terminal 30" for power supply. They contain an accelerometer and display the time when it last sensed accelerating forces (acceleration, steering, braking, engine vibrations). Some tap terminal 30 for power and terminal 15 to know when the engine can't run. The basic circuits of vehicles are defined in DIN 72552, the most important numbers are: 30 = "Battery +" direct from the battery 15 = "Battery +" behind the ignition switch (or a relay to ease the load on the ignition lock switch) So there's always power on 30 and the engine can't run when there is no power on 15. If your park disc is hooked to 30; 15 and won't stop running when the key is pulled out of the ignition, something keeps feeding power to 15! A speciality of VW is the "Terminal X" which was introduced to prevent hotwiring the car by turning on the lights. The lever for the high beams feeds 30 to the lights while pulled. This allows to flash the lights when the ignition is off. When clicked on and released, the lights run on terminal X (over the light switch). When parked, you can keep pulling the high beam lever to switch 30 on the bulbs and tap it by turning on the light switch to X. You notice that the blower, windscreen wipers, electric windows, electric heaters and such work without the key. That's why there is the Relay X, it prevents energizing the actual ignition circuit as well. A very old VW bug can be stolen by duct tape on the high beam lever, turning on the lights and start the engine by pushing the car since you get power to 15 since there is no X. X is not activated by 15! There is a separate switch in the ignition lock which activates X while the key is NOT in the "off" position and not on "start" so X has power when 15 has power but not while the starter is running. If anything cross circuits 15 and 30, your car seems to be off but you still have ignition! If it isn't a hard short circuit, you can still turn off the engine since the power breaks down with the engine drawing a lot of power from 15 but the voltage returns when the engine stops drawing power which then can confuse anything that looks for the ignition key like your park disc, electric windows, alarm system controlling the door locks, pre-heat circuit and other things. This can be caused by faulty wiring or carbon deposit in the ignition lock switch. A simple check would be turning on the low beams to drain power from 15. If the low beams glow (bright or barely) without key or all errors vanish, you know that there is something feeding power to 15 (but not X). Of course it could also be a crazy ECU or a messed up CAN bus (data link between various control units, gauges, sensors and actors). |
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Post by c64 on Apr 23, 2016 16:47:44 GMT
YOu can also use a multimeter to check. Identify something that runs on 15, pull the fuse and measure the voltage behind the fuse and ground. YOu might want to take a burned out fuse and drill a tiny hole above one of the contacts for easy access with a multimeter probe.
The trouble is that most fuses which turn energized with the ignition are X and not 15 and most loads on 15 have no fuse. For my car, true 15 is only available on a single fuse which feeds the fuel pump in the rear of the car. This is the only fused item which needs to keep running while the starter is turning.
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Post by Lokifan on Apr 23, 2016 17:40:19 GMT
Since you're talking about doors and windows, the only thing I can contribute is that my wife's 1999 BMW needed to have the relays in her central locking module replaced.
Symptoms included the intermittent function of doors and windows with the fob and the console button. On one occasion, I was locked in the car and nothing worked to open the doors until I restarted the engine and turned it off again.
In our case, we found it was a known problem, and a gentleman in Los Angeles would fix the issue if you sent him the module and a check for about $100. I pulled the module and sent it to him, and a few days later he sent the reworked module back. It worked just like new, and has been trouble free since then.
I also had an old Chevy that lost its marbles after 10 years and needed its electronic control module replaced. The mechanic said it was normal for that model--they just "wear out".
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Post by silverdragon on Apr 24, 2016 9:20:57 GMT
I had a discussion with my Next Door Neighbour yesterday afternoon.
He has a new car, Vauxhall Meriva, and it has a "VW" Diesel engine in it...
Vauxhall do not make their own engines anymore....
Anyways, onwards, he is retired, and like me, learnt to drive without "all the toys"....
We were bemoaning the passing of those old style cars that didnt have an electronic "nanny" on everything, you just got in, started it, and drove.
His problem with his last car, which was a Renault, was an engine check light intermittent fault that could not be traced?.
His son-in-law does some spanner works / computer programming, and needed a project car for his daughter to learn to drive/operate/reprogram, as he is one of those dads who likes to teach kids if you own it you should know how to fix it?... man after my own heart that one.
Anyways, he offers a fair price so the car is "sold on" (And it was a fair price being the diagnosis of fixing the problem out of warranty was more than car is worth?...)
The Kid is some smart cookie.
She worked on the art of lets do some internet first, and worked out all the faults that could cause the fault light to trigger.
Then onto the [well known] electricians first rule, is it plugged in?...
The eventual fix, after two days solid work, is that the cable from the oil level sensor hadnt been seated correctly and had worn through... fix was a two foot length of bell-wire, some heat shield tape and a couple of cable clips, total cost less than a packet of cigarettes.
Diagnosing and fixing the problem, priceless.
However, this is what it comes to?...
Were we not told when we learn to drive check oil and water regular?.
Does having an electronic nanny do that job for us sort of throw that out?.
Does having a electronic pest that breaks more often than works as designed constitute more of if its not part of the solution, it IS the bloody problem?...
Sue I know a kid who knows what every single warning light on my dashboard means, but, can he play the game of "Hunt the dipstick"?... [pointing to the transport manager is now officially an immediate fail, I wore that one out already...]
For me, it just goes another step in the direction, older cars and knowing how to drive them properly is from a far off age where everything was "easier".
And you could tear down a Mini with three spanners a mole grip a cross-head and a flat screwdriver and a day...
And replace a clutch in less than two hours on your own drive.
I know I may be getting a bit old in my continual complaints of how things are NOT better these days, but....
Oh and by the way, I drove a car last week that was so old it didnt even have ABS.
Did I skid out and crash it within a mile?...
If I did I wouldnt be writing this.
I did however have to execute two emergency stops in less than a mile as I was driving in Central Manchester, and the lemming pedestrians on mobile phones who dont give a stuff what you drive as long as you dont hit them....
But no electronic toys, no traction control, abs, bingly-bongs to tell me the radio was still attached when I open the door and no electronic nagging....
First thing I notice was how quiet the ride was.
And how easy it was to drive.
"Had to do an engine out to change worn out engine mounts last year..." the owner tells me.
Took less than an hour.
Try doing that with your modern engines....
Meanwhile, I am on the search for parts for my Avensis.
Went to one scrap yard..
"We dont get many of them" he says... "Can we have yours?..."
My car is worth more in spare parts than it is as a whole car.
The cars that are still on the road are still on the road, they dont get scrapped, because it was the one car Toyota made that like this post, just go on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....
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Post by the light works on Apr 24, 2016 14:06:10 GMT
I had a discussion with my Next Door Neighbour yesterday afternoon. He has a new car, Vauxhall Meriva, and it has a "VW" Diesel engine in it... Vauxhall do not make their own engines anymore.... Anyways, onwards, he is retired, and like me, learnt to drive without "all the toys".... We were bemoaning the passing of those old style cars that didnt have an electronic "nanny" on everything, you just got in, started it, and drove. His problem with his last car, which was a Renault, was an engine check light intermittent fault that could not be traced?. His son-in-law does some spanner works / computer programming, and needed a project car for his daughter to learn to drive/operate/reprogram, as he is one of those dads who likes to teach kids if you own it you should know how to fix it?... man after my own heart that one. Anyways, he offers a fair price so the car is "sold on" (And it was a fair price being the diagnosis of fixing the problem out of warranty was more than car is worth?...) The Kid is some smart cookie. She worked on the art of lets do some internet first, and worked out all the faults that could cause the fault light to trigger. Then onto the [well known] electricians first rule, is it plugged in?... The eventual fix, after two days solid work, is that the cable from the oil level sensor hadnt been seated correctly and had worn through... fix was a two foot length of bell-wire, some heat shield tape and a couple of cable clips, total cost less than a packet of cigarettes. Diagnosing and fixing the problem, priceless. However, this is what it comes to?... Were we not told when we learn to drive check oil and water regular?. Does having an electronic nanny do that job for us sort of throw that out?. Does having a electronic pest that breaks more often than works as designed constitute more of if its not part of the solution, it IS the bloody problem?... Sue I know a kid who knows what every single warning light on my dashboard means, but, can he play the game of "Hunt the dipstick"?... [pointing to the transport manager is now officially an immediate fail, I wore that one out already...] For me, it just goes another step in the direction, older cars and knowing how to drive them properly is from a far off age where everything was "easier". And you could tear down a Mini with three spanners a mole grip a cross-head and a flat screwdriver and a day... And replace a clutch in less than two hours on your own drive. I know I may be getting a bit old in my continual complaints of how things are NOT better these days, but.... Oh and by the way, I drove a car last week that was so old it didnt even have ABS. Did I skid out and crash it within a mile?... If I did I wouldnt be writing this. I did however have to execute two emergency stops in less than a mile as I was driving in Central Manchester, and the lemming pedestrians on mobile phones who dont give a stuff what you drive as long as you dont hit them.... But no electronic toys, no traction control, abs, bingly-bongs to tell me the radio was still attached when I open the door and no electronic nagging.... First thing I notice was how quiet the ride was. And how easy it was to drive. "Had to do an engine out to change worn out engine mounts last year..." the owner tells me. Took less than an hour. Try doing that with your modern engines.... Meanwhile, I am on the search for parts for my Avensis. Went to one scrap yard.. "We dont get many of them" he says... "Can we have yours?..." My car is worth more in spare parts than it is as a whole car. The cars that are still on the road are still on the road, they dont get scrapped, because it was the one car Toyota made that like this post, just go on and on and on and on and on and on and on..... "Volvos run forever, just not very well" |
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Post by c64 on Oct 30, 2017 19:22:28 GMT
A few weeks ago, I discovered that my car runs on battery only. After stopping the car I had discovered that the "Battery" indicator won't come on when tuning on the ignition. So I checked the alternator and found a rotten plug near the starter which passes the excitation voltage to the alternator. I scrubbed it clean and the battery light worked and so did the alternator.
Last week, when I tried to start my car in the morning, the battery indicator refused to turn on again. I checked the wiring but everything was OK. The excitation voltage was missing everywhere. I had to drive 200km that day! So I phoned a friend if he had any idea what I can do. E.g. if it is OK to "jump start" the alternator with a spanner held against b+ and E (connecting the excitation voltage input directly to the battery). He said it should work but may fry the excitation coil since there is supposed to be a 600 Ohm resistor (or the indicator filament) in between.
Then he had said: "Your car is 25 years old. There has to be some magnetic residue in the alternator. Just rev up the engine to 5000 or 6000 RPM and the alternator should be able to excite itself enough to start working. It worked!
Today I asked a friend who owns a garage if he has time to investigate since I can't find the reason why the car is missing the excitation voltage everywhere. He didn't had time and told me that if it wasn't a 35i but a T4 "bus", all I need to do is to hit the dashboard real hard to fix it. I did, it worked. @$&% "pre-facelift" electronics. They tried a lot of new stuff in that car they never made in series ever again.
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Post by GTCGreg on Oct 30, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
Anybody that owns a Jeep knows the hit the dashboard trick.
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