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Post by OziRiS on Jun 1, 2016 19:05:23 GMT
I know Greek Orthodoxy has a tradition of abstaining from meat; apparently in some of the monasteries it's only served on Pascha (Easter). Does Russian Orthodoxy not have that tradition? They do. Just Google "russian orthodox church fasting rules" and you'll see that they're pretty much identical to the rules of the Greek Orthodox Church. There are local variations, but they're mostly the same. |
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Post by Antigone68104 on Jun 1, 2016 20:43:01 GMT
I know Greek Orthodoxy has a tradition of abstaining from meat; apparently in some of the monasteries it's only served on Pascha (Easter). Does Russian Orthodoxy not have that tradition? They do. Just Google "russian orthodox church fasting rules" and you'll see that they're pretty much identical to the rules of the Greek Orthodox Church. There are local variations, but they're mostly the same. Then I'm not sure how veganism can be so offensive to those people upthread. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 1, 2016 21:32:19 GMT
They do. Just Google "russian orthodox church fasting rules" and you'll see that they're pretty much identical to the rules of the Greek Orthodox Church. There are local variations, but they're mostly the same. Then I'm not sure how veganism can be so offensive to those people upthread. As I said, maybe it's because they'd rather not think about all the ways in which they themselves are failing to meet the requirements of the lifestyle they subscribe to, so they choose to lash out at someone else instead. But it's nothing new. This often happens when a religion is inherited rather than chosen. You're forced to live up to the rules and requirements of that religion, but because you don't fully understand (or maybe even care) why those rules and requirements are the way they are, you fall short. Instead of admitting to yourself and your surroundings that you're not as good a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever as you've been made to think you should be, you just point your finger at others to divert attention away from yourself and avoid doing the work to either become the person others expect you to be, or become the person you truly want to be. It happens with pretty much every religion on Earth. Oddly enough though, pretty much every religion on Earth from antiquity to modernity has its own version of the Golden Rule sitting at the very top of its dogma (the earliest known version is from Egypt ca. 2,000 BC), yet it seems to be one of the most difficult rules for us humans to follow, regardless of where, when and in which faith we were brought up. It's ironic that our laziness when it comes to bettering ourselves often leads to us working extremely hard (learning scripture and so on) to justify pointing fingers at others. Each and every person in the world could chuck all that scripture out the window if we could all just live by the Golden Rule of treating others as we would like others to treat us. Even the 10 commandments become superfluous with that rule, because who would like others to cheat on them, steal from them or kill them? |
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Post by the light works on Jun 2, 2016 1:32:28 GMT
Then I'm not sure how veganism can be so offensive to those people upthread. As I said, maybe it's because they'd rather not think about all the ways in which they themselves are failing to meet the requirements of the lifestyle they subscribe to, so they choose to lash out at someone else instead. But it's nothing new. This often happens when a religion is inherited rather than chosen. You're forced to live up to the rules and requirements of that religion, but because you don't fully understand (or maybe even care) why those rules and requirements are the way they are, you fall short. Instead of admitting to yourself and your surroundings that you're not as good a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever as you've been made to think you should be, you just point your finger at others to divert attention away from yourself and avoid doing the work to either become the person others expect you to be, or become the person you truly want to be. It happens with pretty much every religion on Earth. Oddly enough though, pretty much every religion on Earth from antiquity to modernity has its own version of the Golden Rule sitting at the very top of its dogma (the earliest known version is from Egypt ca. 2,000 BC), yet it seems to be one of the most difficult rules for us humans to follow, regardless of where, when and in which faith we were brought up. It's ironic that our laziness when it comes to bettering ourselves often leads to us working extremely hard (learning scripture and so on) to justify pointing fingers at others. Each and every person in the world could chuck all that scripture out the window if we could all just live by the Golden Rule of treating others as we would like others to treat us. Even the 10 commandments become superfluous with that rule, because who would like others to cheat on them, steal from them or kill them? I suspect the people in question are a fundamentalist sect rather than Russian Orthodox. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 2, 2016 8:35:40 GMT
Then I'm not sure how veganism can be so offensive to those people upthread. As I said, maybe it's because they'd rather not think about all the ways in which they themselves are failing to meet the requirements of the lifestyle they subscribe to, so they choose to lash out at someone else instead. But it's nothing new. This often happens when a religion is inherited rather than chosen. You're forced to live up to the rules and requirements of that religion, but because you don't fully understand (or maybe even care) why those rules and requirements are the way they are, you fall short. Instead of admitting to yourself and your surroundings that you're not as good a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever as you've been made to think you should be, you just point your finger at others to divert attention away from yourself and avoid doing the work to either become the person others expect you to be, or become the person you truly want to be. It happens with pretty much every religion on Earth. Oddly enough though, pretty much every religion on Earth from antiquity to modernity has its own version of the Golden Rule sitting at the very top of its dogma (the earliest known version is from Egypt ca. 2,000 BC), yet it seems to be one of the most difficult rules for us humans to follow, regardless of where, when and in which faith we were brought up. It's ironic that our laziness when it comes to bettering ourselves often leads to us working extremely hard (learning scripture and so on) to justify pointing fingers at others. Each and every person in the world could chuck all that scripture out the window if we could all just live by the Golden Rule of treating others as we would like others to treat us. Even the 10 commandments become superfluous with that rule, because who would like others to cheat on them, steal from them or kill them? Nail on the head as an important part of my own agnosticism. But mine is not a choice of ignorance of others... I have studied long and hard on the art of knowing how people think, and religious can answer more questions than it asks. Why is my Pub empty at midnight on Xmas eve but full at half-past?. Midnight mass at the church 5 mins walk away. Otherwise, what the hell would I be doing open that late on Xmas eve anyway?. And as for the Midnight Mas of Christ, why still so popular?. the name, Christ-Mas.... erm?... However, back to up-thread... Here is a proposition. I am as example, Manchester United fan. In the area around the stadium, it is a "Red" area of town, in that a lot of "Blue" fans, Manchester City, would not even walk, unless its a Derby day. (the days the two teams play against each other...) If someone was to be as daft as to open a Manchester City supporters memorabilia shop within 200 yds of that stadium?... Onwards, the article mentions that the shop attracts a certain "Lifestyle". If you have a shop popular with Goths, then you note an increase of Goths around that shop. You expect to hear Goth Music. Goth Dress, goth ethics, and a spread of goth Fans, as it becomes "fashionable". In a part of the world where they ave always been traditional eastern europe, we, the western world, are still considered "Enemies". The reverse would be you Americans having a "Communist" shop complete with the red flag flying there, on your high street?. Dependant on how "Murican" the neighbourhood is depends on the resistance... But... If you all watched the Top Gear road trip down the deep south of 'Murica and the trouble they got in for just painting homosexual references on one of the cars?.. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 2, 2016 10:48:38 GMT
As I said, maybe it's because they'd rather not think about all the ways in which they themselves are failing to meet the requirements of the lifestyle they subscribe to, so they choose to lash out at someone else instead. But it's nothing new. This often happens when a religion is inherited rather than chosen. You're forced to live up to the rules and requirements of that religion, but because you don't fully understand (or maybe even care) why those rules and requirements are the way they are, you fall short. Instead of admitting to yourself and your surroundings that you're not as good a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever as you've been made to think you should be, you just point your finger at others to divert attention away from yourself and avoid doing the work to either become the person others expect you to be, or become the person you truly want to be. It happens with pretty much every religion on Earth. Oddly enough though, pretty much every religion on Earth from antiquity to modernity has its own version of the Golden Rule sitting at the very top of its dogma (the earliest known version is from Egypt ca. 2,000 BC), yet it seems to be one of the most difficult rules for us humans to follow, regardless of where, when and in which faith we were brought up. It's ironic that our laziness when it comes to bettering ourselves often leads to us working extremely hard (learning scripture and so on) to justify pointing fingers at others. Each and every person in the world could chuck all that scripture out the window if we could all just live by the Golden Rule of treating others as we would like others to treat us. Even the 10 commandments become superfluous with that rule, because who would like others to cheat on them, steal from them or kill them? Nail on the head as an important part of my own agnosticism. But mine is not a choice of ignorance of others... I have studied long and hard on the art of knowing how people think, and religious can answer more questions than it asks. Why is my Pub empty at midnight on Xmas eve but full at half-past?. Midnight mass at the church 5 mins walk away. Otherwise, what the hell would I be doing open that late on Xmas eve anyway?. And as for the Midnight Mas of Christ, why still so popular?. the name, Christ-Mas.... erm?... However, back to up-thread... Here is a proposition. I am as example, Manchester United fan. In the area around the stadium, it is a "Red" area of town, in that a lot of "Blue" fans, Manchester City, would not even walk, unless its a Derby day. (the days the two teams play against each other...) If someone was to be as daft as to open a Manchester City supporters memorabilia shop within 200 yds of that stadium?... Onwards, the article mentions that the shop attracts a certain "Lifestyle". If you have a shop popular with Goths, then you note an increase of Goths around that shop. You expect to hear Goth Music. Goth Dress, goth ethics, and a spread of goth Fans, as it becomes "fashionable". In a part of the world where they ave always been traditional eastern europe, we, the western world, are still considered "Enemies". The reverse would be you Americans having a "Communist" shop complete with the red flag flying there, on your high street?. Dependant on how "Murican" the neighbourhood is depends on the resistance... But... If you all watched the Top Gear road trip down the deep south of 'Murica and the trouble they got in for just painting homosexual references on one of the cars?.. When it comes to religion it has always amazed me how much scripture some religious people are willing to study and memorize just to justify telling other people how wrong they are, but the one religious rule they really should be momrizing and living by - and that's whether they're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever - is basically telling them that's wrong. Every single religion in the world tells its followers that by trying to deny others the right to be close to the divine, you're removing yourself from it as well. For example, telling a gay man that what he's doing is against God's will is in and of itself against God's will. Ironic, isn't it? There's a story in Jewish scripture (the Babylonian Talmud) about a religious teacher named Hillel the Elder that I particularly like to bring up when having this discussion. He was once challenged by a gentile who asked to be converted under the condition that the whole Torah be explained to him while he was standing on one foot. Hillel accepted the challenge and told him: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. This is the whole Torah. The rest is the explanation. Go and learn." It's so incredibly simple, yet some will spend their entire lives dedicated to learning scripture quote after scripture quote, just so they can use them to justify being total a**holes to other people. That's why I'm an agnostic. ADDENDUM: And yes, I do see the irony in me quoting scripture to tell some religious people they're doing it wrong when they quote scripture to tell other people they're doing it wrong and thereby seemingly breaking the Golden Rule myself. I would argue I'm not breaking it. I'm simply pointing out the hypocracy in using scripture to justify being a d*ck to people who don't do what you think they should do, all the while ignoring the most important part of that very same scripture that basically says, "Don't be a d*ck to other people". I'm essentially paraphrasing Jesus by saying, "Hey. Before you storm off with a pair of tweezers to rid the world of eye splinters, you might want to get that huge beam in your own looked at first." |
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Post by the light works on Jun 2, 2016 14:03:36 GMT
As I said, maybe it's because they'd rather not think about all the ways in which they themselves are failing to meet the requirements of the lifestyle they subscribe to, so they choose to lash out at someone else instead. But it's nothing new. This often happens when a religion is inherited rather than chosen. You're forced to live up to the rules and requirements of that religion, but because you don't fully understand (or maybe even care) why those rules and requirements are the way they are, you fall short. Instead of admitting to yourself and your surroundings that you're not as good a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever as you've been made to think you should be, you just point your finger at others to divert attention away from yourself and avoid doing the work to either become the person others expect you to be, or become the person you truly want to be. It happens with pretty much every religion on Earth. Oddly enough though, pretty much every religion on Earth from antiquity to modernity has its own version of the Golden Rule sitting at the very top of its dogma (the earliest known version is from Egypt ca. 2,000 BC), yet it seems to be one of the most difficult rules for us humans to follow, regardless of where, when and in which faith we were brought up. It's ironic that our laziness when it comes to bettering ourselves often leads to us working extremely hard (learning scripture and so on) to justify pointing fingers at others. Each and every person in the world could chuck all that scripture out the window if we could all just live by the Golden Rule of treating others as we would like others to treat us. Even the 10 commandments become superfluous with that rule, because who would like others to cheat on them, steal from them or kill them? Nail on the head as an important part of my own agnosticism. But mine is not a choice of ignorance of others... I have studied long and hard on the art of knowing how people think, and religious can answer more questions than it asks. Why is my Pub empty at midnight on Xmas eve but full at half-past?. Midnight mass at the church 5 mins walk away. Otherwise, what the hell would I be doing open that late on Xmas eve anyway?. And as for the Midnight Mas of Christ, why still so popular?. the name, Christ-Mas.... erm?... However, back to up-thread... Here is a proposition. I am as example, Manchester United fan. In the area around the stadium, it is a "Red" area of town, in that a lot of "Blue" fans, Manchester City, would not even walk, unless its a Derby day. (the days the two teams play against each other...) If someone was to be as daft as to open a Manchester City supporters memorabilia shop within 200 yds of that stadium?... Onwards, the article mentions that the shop attracts a certain "Lifestyle". If you have a shop popular with Goths, then you note an increase of Goths around that shop. You expect to hear Goth Music. Goth Dress, goth ethics, and a spread of goth Fans, as it becomes "fashionable". In a part of the world where they ave always been traditional eastern europe, we, the western world, are still considered "Enemies". The reverse would be you Americans having a "Communist" shop complete with the red flag flying there, on your high street?. Dependant on how "Murican" the neighbourhood is depends on the resistance... But... If you all watched the Top Gear road trip down the deep south of 'Murica and the trouble they got in for just painting homosexual references on one of the cars?.. ehh. it'd be more like if you opened a vegan restaurant in the deep south and had decorations supporting those who don't fit in the binary sexuality model. to the point I had to scratch my head a bit to be sure whether that happened in the soviet nation of georgia, or the southern state of georgia. |
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Post by the light works on Jun 2, 2016 14:05:38 GMT
actually, the official summary, according to the bible is "Love God with all your heart, your soul and your strength, love your neighbor as yourself. this sums up the law and the prophets."
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Post by Lokifan on Jun 2, 2016 14:06:47 GMT
<snip> In a part of the world where they ave always been traditional eastern europe, we, the western world, are still considered "Enemies". The reverse would be you Americans having a "Communist" shop complete with the red flag flying there, on your high street?. Been to three that I recall. One, in Las Vegas called Red Square. Another, in San Francisco, called Walzwerk has an East German theme. If you want serious Communism, go to Berkeley to visit Revolution Books. They've been "inspiring the masses" since at least the 1980s. I always wondered how much of that was staged, myself. And, as I recall, they painted all three cars with various absurd slogans, in an attempt to be as deliberately offensive as possible. Not that that excuses the violent response; that was illegal and should have been prosecuted. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 3, 2016 6:57:31 GMT
Just to play my part of Devils Advocate, enter Dragon, chasing a bear, stage right, we have a short fight which the bear does in full Morris dress.
But Oziris, how must you argue that you are in or out of the "Golden rule" of using scripture to argue your point that "they" are doing it wrong?.
If like I say I am, I am Agnostic, surely I an therefore out of the club that uses those rules, they do not apply to you at all and therefore, you are free to play hard and fast in the name of enlightenment, because you are not beholden to those rules?..
Otherwise, if you were from any religion arguing against another, then you argue Backgammon to argue Monopoly?... completely different game?... but the rules are quite right.
Doesn't matter how hard you argue, you may be right in backgammon, but that isnt chess.
When like we are, being outside the playing field, all religions argue that they MUST enlighten the "Heathen", the unbeliever, and MUST welcome us as "Long lost brothers", so, if we say "But I dont understand, can you explain please", then by the laws of their own faith, they MUST stop everything and help us on the path of enlightenment.
Yeah, Ironic, one of my Jewish friends has really funny arguments with me because he knoweth what I do, he knows I have no intention of converting, but we argue the Torah and Talmund as a pass-time, because we know we enlighten each other, I may not be part of Christian faith, but I know "more than him" on Protestant faith, so we help each other into the art of tolerance of each faith.
He has been my greatest help in understanding of the Jewish faith, because there are no barriers that because I am not of his faith I am to be suspect?..
Yeah.
Thats another one. The Old Firm.
Half of my Scottish side of the family are Celtic fans, half are Rangers, and it is so that if you are Rangers, you are Protestant, if you are Celtic, you are Catholic, so you can tell which religion people are by the scarf and football shirt they wear?..
I "was" a protestant[many years many many many years....], but support Celtic?.. but then I start supporting Rangers as well, because they were dropped for certain financial irregularities into a division two or three below Celtic, and I supported their efforts to get back up there, because "Its not the same without the Old firm"
In that, I have sort of blasted a way between the two sides of the family to be more tolerant of religion, because I started that when it first happened, and now the whole family are there together supporting Rangers get back to the same league as Celtic so they can resume "The old firm" games....
I hope its spread that the new season and Old Form games will be more of a friendly rivalry now, and the deep division of religion has been "Forgotten".
I will forever want to sit on the half way line and throw reason to be friends towards the crowd....
Loki mentions of the TG trip...
Because of the laws of 'Murica, they had to be a deeply informative documentary and not "mess about"...
Staged?.. I can show you the script written six moths before they departed to do that trip if you want?...
Yes it WAS staged, they decided to bust the myth that the deep south "Bible belt" was all that bothered....
It was all that bothered, so "Myth confirmed", but then again, the idea that they should have some "Good ol' boys" chase them down the road?... unfortunately, encouraging them to do that, bit them on their backside when there was some SERIOUS car chases in Argentina.
Heh heh heh... enter the Dragon and Bear as Morris men again?... devils advocate asks why?.. why CANT they do that slogan?... why is it illegal?... what about your "Free speech" laws?...
And just to set the record straight, if they had tried that in UK, there would have been a LOT of "You stupid gits" and other language shouted at them, but I dont expect any Violence?..
I would have expected the Police to sort of stop and say " Dont you think you have taken it far enough now?..."
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 3, 2016 8:06:06 GMT
actually, the official summary, according to the bible is "Love God with all your heart, your soul and your strength, love your neighbor as yourself. this sums up the law and the prophets." According to the Bible, yes. But the basic idea predates the Bible by thousands of years and has at some point popped up in more or less every culture and religion in the world: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_RuleAncient Egypt: Possibly the earliest affirmation of the maxim of reciprocity reflecting the ancient Egyptian goddess, Ma'at, who appears in the story of The Eloquent Peasant, which dates to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040 – c. 1650 BC): "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to make him do." This proverb embodies the do ut des principle. A Late Period (c. 664 BC – 323 BC) papyrus contains an early negative affirmation of the Golden Rule: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another." Ancient China: The Golden Rule existed among all the major philosophical schools of ancient China: Mohism, Taoism, and Confucianism. Examples of the concept include: "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius(c. 500 BC) "If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." — Mozi (c. 400 BC) "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." — Laozi (c. 500 BC) Ancient Greece: The Golden Rule in its prohibitive (negative) form was a common principle in ancient Greek philosophy. Examples of the general concept include: "Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales (c. 624 BC – c. 546 BC) "What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean. "Do not do to others that which angers you when they do it to you." – Isocrates(436–338 BC) |
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Post by silverdragon on Jun 3, 2016 8:33:15 GMT
The Golden Rule as observed by The Dragon, well known mercenary for worthwhile causes...
The golden rule?.. He who has the Gold, Makes the rules.
(As long as its legal decent and honest... my own rule..)
Now back to the "Do unto others as you would have done to yourself" thing....
A Short discourse on what came from where and why.
I know its an important thing in many religions, its even in Law in many countries, so it has to have some historical origins.
In saying that, from what I can find, many people have "Put into words" something that was observed by may people long before the written word carried it onwards.
Stone-Age man, in United Kingdom, observed our own form of "Fair play", that is almost engrained into the generations of Britons who have lived here as far back as it can be researched, long before the Romans took power from the Celts.
Druids?.. that may have been a made-up religion for those who presumed our Big Stone Computer for predicting astronomic events was more than just an observatory and "Must have been" a religious thing.... stone henge...
I ask, was the Coliseum a religious meeting place?... so why MUST anything that survived from before then be automatically a religious thing?...
I may then question was the "Do unto others" rule a Religion thing, or was it just a bloody good way of expressing "You wouldnt like it if I did that to you?... well stop kicking your brother then...."
And in that way, did it exist in some unwritten form before the great authors of the written age came along.
Is it then just part of being Human, and the empathy of understanding the needs of others.
Has it not even been discovered that some of the great apes show the same empathy and make presents of food to each other, in that they understand the needs of others.
Is it also not shown in any large heard mentality of may animals that of one of the herd starts bullying tactics, the leader of the heard will put them in their place....
I therefore suggest that the "Fair play" thing of do unto others is not of religious origin, its an evolutionary thing, that allows the heard mentality to survive by encouraging team work.
The religion of the world may have adapted and used that primary rule to their own advantage, but the idea may have origins before the advent of religion?..
"From what ye sow, so shall ye reap", in that if you allow others to partake of your meal, you will be welcome at their next meal, and in that way, a herd of Lions will share ones kill amongst the whole herd?.. because it was team work that helped bring the kill in the first place?..
Religion and Rule have always been of high regard and intertwined in law, maybe because it was the Religion was the rule in early history.
But were the laws made by the religious leader Religion, or Law because we need law?.
I therefore argue from whence it came, and why.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 3, 2016 10:01:07 GMT
Just to play my part of Devils Advocate, enter Dragon, chasing a bear, stage right, we have a short fight which the bear does in full Morris dress. But Oziris, how must you argue that you are in or out of the "Golden rule" of using scripture to argue your point that "they" are doing it wrong?. If like I say I am, I am Agnostic, surely I an therefore out of the club that uses those rules, they do not apply to you at all and therefore, you are free to play hard and fast in the name of enlightenment, because you are not beholden to those rules?.. Why do I feel the need to make the argument that I'm not breaking the Golden Rule by telling others they're breaking it when I'm not part of any religion that preaches it? That is such a good question that I'm now on my 7th edit in my attempt to come up with a good answer  The Golden Rule can be updated to more modern language using TLW's "don't be THAT guy", or even Adam Hills' "don't be a d*ck". That's a good rule for anyone, not just religious people. It's a rule I generally try to live by and it was the realization that most hardcore religious people will gladly overlook that one rule to try to bash everyone else on the head with all the other rules that put me off religion at an early age and ended up making me an agnostic. So, how do you tell someone they're being a hypocrite when they quote scripture to justify being THAT guy without becoming a hypocrite yourself? And that's important to me, because why would I want to be like the very people who do things I despise? Being an "expert" in religious scripture, using it to tell others they're bad people, thereby breaking the Golden Rule and then wondering why people don't like you is like having read and understood everything there is to know about computers, starting your first day as an "IT expert" by pouring water onto a motherboard and then wondering why you got fired. You obviously missed something important. All I'm saying is I might not be an expert, but I can tell you what you missed. Feel free to go back and consult the manual if you don't believe me. From where I'm standing, that's being helpful, not hypocritical. |
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Post by the light works on Jun 3, 2016 14:24:33 GMT
to put it back into sports vernacular. silver may prefer football with a round ball, but he can still point out that in handegg rules,. you are not allowed to grab your opponent by the face mask and try to yank his head off his shoulders.
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Post by the light works on Jun 3, 2016 15:17:12 GMT
morning news says they are having devastating rains and flooding in texas. no word from the fundies of what God is mad at them about.
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 3, 2016 15:22:26 GMT
to put it back into sports vernacular. silver may prefer football with a round ball, but he can still point out that in handegg rules,. you are not allowed to grab your opponent by the face mask and try to yank his head off his shoulders. If I'm ever running for some kind of public office, I want you to be my speech writer. You have a knack for summing up what people are thinking in much shorter and more concise terms |
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Post by the light works on Jun 3, 2016 15:38:11 GMT
to put it back into sports vernacular. silver may prefer football with a round ball, but he can still point out that in handegg rules,. you are not allowed to grab your opponent by the face mask and try to yank his head off his shoulders. If I'm ever running for some kind of public office, I want you to be my speech writer. You have a knack for summing up what people are thinking in much shorter and more concise terms for some reason I have a talent for rephrasing things. |
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Post by Lokifan on Jun 3, 2016 16:16:56 GMT
MOD NOTE: Since this was starting to discuss OT moral issues, I moved those posts.
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Post by Lokifan on Jun 3, 2016 16:40:48 GMT
<snip> Loki mentions of the TG trip... Because of the laws of 'Murica, they had to be a deeply informative documentary and not "mess about"... Staged?.. I can show you the script written six moths before they departed to do that trip if you want?... Yes it WAS staged, they decided to bust the myth that the deep south "Bible belt" was all that bothered.... It was all that bothered, so "Myth confirmed", but then again, the idea that they should have some "Good ol' boys" chase them down the road?... unfortunately, encouraging them to do that, bit them on their backside when there was some SERIOUS car chases in Argentina. By "staged", I meant I wondered if the TG crew had paid for the reaction by the locals, as in "We'll buy you a case of beer if you pretend to attack us so we can get good footage for our TV show", and maybe it got out of hand. Since that appears to have been a genuine reaction, I'm truly disappointed by my countrymen and they should have been fully prosecuted to the extent of the law. I should point out the America is a big place, and what happens in one small backwoods town doesn't necessarily reflect what would happen elsewhere. You misread me. There was nothing in those slogans that justified a violent response. Period. The persons who attacked them should be arrested and jailed. Period. Besides the assault, they infringed on the civil liberties of the TG folks, specifically their right to express themselves peacefully. Period. You're not playing devil's advocate here; as far as I'm concerned we're on the same side. And that's the side of the angels. Here's the thing, SD: I would have said the same thing until I saw the footage. And please don't blame the police. In rural areas, law enforcement is often a long way from where the crime occurs. Some don't even have police, just the county sheriff. Or, as some people say: "When seconds count, the police are minutes away..." Even in rural California, it can take an hour for law enforcement to appear. |
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Post by OziRiS on Jun 3, 2016 22:26:28 GMT
Here's the thing, SD: I would have said the same thing until I saw the footage. And please don't blame the police. In rural areas, law enforcement is often a long way from where the crime occurs. Some don't even have police, just the county sheriff. Or, as some people say: "When seconds count, the police are minutes away..." Even in rural California, it can take an hour for law enforcement to appear. That's why it seems to the rest of us that some of those rural areas almost have their own laws. And you're right about the size of America being a thing most of us who come from smaller countries don't think about when talking about these things. I mean, Denmark is like half the size of the state of Maine and Maine ain't that big compared to the rest of the US to begin with. It's difficult for someone like me to imagine a place in my own country that's so "backwoods" it's practically outside the rule of law. You can get to pretty much anywhere in Denmark in less than 4 hours by car. You couldn't cross the state of Kansas from East to West in that amount of time. |
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