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Post by trakmec on Nov 9, 2012 19:43:34 GMT
Good idea Alaska!
Question, would you freeze this on a mold to get the bore, or machine it out of a solid block? One would require a bit more set up and the other may cause some melting and distortion during the build.
Also is one type of ice more suited to this than another? Would distilled water opposed to tap water be stronger?
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bioLarzen
Demi-Minion
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Posts: 86
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Post by bioLarzen on Nov 9, 2012 20:20:42 GMT
I would cast it using mold.
bio
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Post by freegan on Nov 9, 2012 20:38:44 GMT
I would suggest de-gassed water would be the best option and casting in a smooth-walled mold.
Would a little corn-starch as an additive be of any advantage?
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Post by memeengine on Nov 10, 2012 0:04:25 GMT
Would a little corn-starch as an additive be of any advantage? Possibly, but what quantity of additive can we allow and still call it an 'ice cannon'?
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 10, 2012 0:17:48 GMT
They could always try pykrete in addition to normal ice, although this would probably require a mould.
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Post by chriso on Nov 10, 2012 2:12:10 GMT
Ice refers only to frozen water right? Otherwise, I could show you a number of examples of frozen iron or bronze cannons... How about define "ice" as a structure composed of at least 98% by mass H2O, which is transparent and contains no obvious artificial structures. and an "ice" cannon as a device composed of the aforementioned substance. You are allowed additives, but if they violate one of the criteria or is visible then it is not allowed.
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Post by chriso on Nov 10, 2012 2:14:16 GMT
Noticed your post, cyber. I suspect with pykrete the cannonball would scrape shavings out of the barrel, pile them up in front of it, and get stuck, leading to the whole barrel exploding. Perhaps a coating of regular ice on the inside ? (I have no idea how to do that)
*added*
Heck, thinking about it, no one has defined that the cannon needs to use gunpowder either. Why not use compressed air?
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 10, 2012 4:26:30 GMT
By jove, I think you've got it! You're right...no one ever said it had to be a powder cannon, so I guess air cannon would be valid. Also, using compressed air in this situation, would virtually eliminate the chance of melting and greatly decrease the chance of structural failure, given the MBs more than one attempt with the cannon.
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bioLarzen
Demi-Minion
"I reject your avatars and substitute my own."
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Post by bioLarzen on Nov 10, 2012 10:13:09 GMT
Well, originally I though of a "normal" cannon, meaning one using explosives - most probably powder - to propel the cannonball. And, of course, one made of ice, meaning no additives whatsoever. Maybe the degassing idea (haha, first I wrote "degaussing" ) is a great one, I guess that would make the glass barrel notioceably tougher. bio
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Post by freegan on Nov 10, 2012 10:16:22 GMT
Well, originally I though of a "normal" cannon, meaning one using explosives - most probably powder - to propel the cannonball. And, of course, one made of ice, meaning no additives whatsoever. Maybe the degassing idea (haha, first I wrote "degaussing" ) is a great one, I guess that would make the glass barrel notioceably tougher. bio And crystal clear.
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 10, 2012 15:25:32 GMT
This strikes me as one of those rare ideas where MB could try all of the above, heck you could add 'spud-gun' to the potential designs here. (In fact that might make for a viable projectile for proof of concept shots).
Let me see, figure maybe one or two days of small-scale testing to figure out the best type of ice to use - which they can do in the shop. Another day to create several moulds, a day or two to freeze the water and two days for location testing...
That would net them a small armies worth of ice cannons they can test and fall within the week or so of filming time they have while leaving a couple of spare days if they have any significant problems - which *should* be long enough to allow them to re-cast the ice cannons and test them if things went REALLY wrong at some point.
The biggest problem would be transportation, although if they are filming in sub-zero temperatures refrigeration might be a minor issue. Might be simplest for them to make each cannon no longer than three feet or so in length, which should give them something large enough to test and small and light enough to move around quickly. Maybe they could use ping-pong balls injected with foam or cement as ammunition - cheap, simple, expendable (which 'conventional' solid shot isn't), less likely to chip or damage the barrel while being loaded, could be produced in large amounts to allow for more firings than they are likely to have time for and would allow for a much thicker barrel in relation to the bore size (and hence a smaller and lighter cannon) than would be the case with anything else.
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bioLarzen
Demi-Minion
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Post by bioLarzen on Nov 10, 2012 15:48:31 GMT
Shame the production guys probably don't monitor this site... bio
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Post by trakmec on Nov 10, 2012 16:27:57 GMT
Would it be worth it to post a link to this site on the new boards in hopes that some of the researchers see it and maybe come and check out the Citadel? Or would that be bad?
Cybermortis: what about using tennis balls for ammo with the same foam filling? they would be somewhat larger with bright colors and more visual for filming. The fuzzy outside might also act as a sort of wadding for the bore.
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 10, 2012 17:22:02 GMT
They are aware of the site, and I would suspect keeping an eye on us.
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 10, 2012 18:53:12 GMT
Ping pong balls: need to find near seamless ones. A lot of ping pong balls have a thin seam around the circumference of the balls, where the two halves meet, which could effect propulsion out of the cannon if the seam rides along the inside of the barrel.
Tennis balls: the "fur" on the outside could act as batting create an airtight seal within the cannon. But, the "fur" could also create drag as it's exiting the cannon.
Perhaps creating a projectile would be best?
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 10, 2012 19:03:23 GMT
The fuzz on a tennis ball is likely to catch fire with anything other than a air-cannon.
Seams on ping pong balls would not be a problem, even if they were noticeable they could be sanded down. Besides, we are not interested in accuracy just in if the cannon would work.
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bioLarzen
Demi-Minion
"I reject your avatars and substitute my own."
Posts: 86
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Post by bioLarzen on Nov 10, 2012 21:26:18 GMT
They are aware of the site, and I would suspect keeping an eye on us. Oh, didn't know that. All the better. bio
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Post by The Urban Mythbuster on Nov 11, 2012 14:13:17 GMT
What if, sticking with the ice theme, we create ice cannonballs? An ice cannonball coated in vasoline, or some other lubricant, to prevent it from getting stuck frozen inside the cannon.
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Post by Cybermortis on Nov 11, 2012 15:33:11 GMT
MB have tested ice bullets twice, and on both occasions the bullet was steam by the time it reached the muzzle. No reason MB couldn't make ice-shot, but I don't think anyone would be all that surprised by the results and they may be of the opinion that such a thing is a case of 'been there, done that'.
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Post by trakmec on Nov 11, 2012 16:48:55 GMT
Past experience with similar devices tells me that yes the fur will burn up. But unless soaked in a flammable liquid it won’t stay on fire long, and is usually out well before the tennis ball hits the ground. With the air cannon it will definitely act as wadding. With the powder charge it will do the same until it’s burned off. Use injectable insulation foam to give it some rigidity, or an epoxy to get it strength and weight, they will be more durable, therefore reusable compared to ping pong balls. Especially with a powder charge
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