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Post by silverdragon on Feb 19, 2018 4:49:22 GMT
Rejuvenating a rechargeable battery.
I wont link to the video I just seen because it contains the stupid.
I can sum it up in a few words...
They heard that you can rejuvenate a "tired" NiCad battery by swapping poles on the charger.. "Cross pole", and anyone with a understanding of electronics is going to know what comes next?.
Pop
And a splash of innards.
Dependant on the size of the battery, thats a whole lot of innards splashing out quite a distance?.
Do I need to say "**DONT TRY THIS AT HOME**"?
There are now quite a few interwebs vids that show people trying to either reset the "Memory" thing with a NiCad, or trying to rejuvenate a tired much used and now weak rechargeable battery that has had a long life and wont charge fully of discharges quickly.
My advice?. Just buy a new one.
However, if the MB's want to try some of these myths that you can do this, and maybe show exactly what goes wrong?.
Things NOT to try... Microwaving a battery.
You all seen the egg in a microwave thing?. Well putting a battery in a microwave has similar results?..
And again, "**DONT TRY THIS AT HOME**"
Certainly do NOT heat the battery beyond its recommended working range, do not cross-pole the contacts, even with a paper-clip with just the battery on its own, do not try to cut into the cells at all, and do not try to "Slam charge" by using a ~40volt recharger on a 12 volt battery.
Also, there are now available Slam chargers that promise to recharge a normal Phone battery in either half or 10% of the normal time, and will give you up to 80% of a full battery "On the quick"
The Myth is that this will shorten the working life of your battery.
How true is that?.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 19, 2018 5:55:30 GMT
Rejuvenating a rechargeable battery. I wont link to the video I just seen because it contains the stupid. I can sum it up in a few words... They heard that you can rejuvenate a "tired" NiCad battery by swapping poles on the charger.. "Cross pole", and anyone with a understanding of electronics is going to know what comes next?. PopAnd a splash of innards. Dependant on the size of the battery, thats a whole lot of innards splashing out quite a distance?. Do I need to say "**DONT TRY THIS AT HOME**"? There are now quite a few interwebs vids that show people trying to either reset the "Memory" thing with a NiCad, or trying to rejuvenate a tired much used and now weak rechargeable battery that has had a long life and wont charge fully of discharges quickly. My advice?. Just buy a new one. However, if the MB's want to try some of these myths that you can do this, and maybe show exactly what goes wrong?. Things NOT to try... Microwaving a battery. You all seen the egg in a microwave thing?. Well putting a battery in a microwave has similar results?.. And again, "**DONT TRY THIS AT HOME**"Certainly do NOT heat the battery beyond its recommended working range, do not cross-pole the contacts, even with a paper-clip with just the battery on its own, do not try to cut into the cells at all, and do not try to "Slam charge" by using a ~40volt recharger on a 12 volt battery. Also, there are now available Slam chargers that promise to recharge a normal Phone battery in either half or 10% of the normal time, and will give you up to 80% of a full battery "On the quick" The Myth is that this will shorten the working life of your battery. How true is that?. As for Ni-Cads, when Ni-Cads are left discharged for too long, sometimes the cells short. By running a very high current through the cell (for a very short period of time), you can "blow" the short and the cell can then be recharged normally. I've done this a number of times and it does work but the cells never seem to come back to their full capacity. As for Li-Ion, I wouldn't try anything outside of their normal charging parameters. Some are designed to be quick charged but those that are not tend to get nasty if you try to do things they don't like. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 19, 2018 15:40:00 GMT
Rejuvenating a rechargeable battery. I wont link to the video I just seen because it contains the stupid. I can sum it up in a few words... They heard that you can rejuvenate a "tired" NiCad battery by swapping poles on the charger.. "Cross pole", and anyone with a understanding of electronics is going to know what comes next?. PopAnd a splash of innards. Dependant on the size of the battery, thats a whole lot of innards splashing out quite a distance?. Do I need to say "**DONT TRY THIS AT HOME**"? There are now quite a few interwebs vids that show people trying to either reset the "Memory" thing with a NiCad, or trying to rejuvenate a tired much used and now weak rechargeable battery that has had a long life and wont charge fully of discharges quickly. My advice?. Just buy a new one. However, if the MB's want to try some of these myths that you can do this, and maybe show exactly what goes wrong?. Things NOT to try... Microwaving a battery. You all seen the egg in a microwave thing?. Well putting a battery in a microwave has similar results?.. And again, "**DONT TRY THIS AT HOME**"Certainly do NOT heat the battery beyond its recommended working range, do not cross-pole the contacts, even with a paper-clip with just the battery on its own, do not try to cut into the cells at all, and do not try to "Slam charge" by using a ~40volt recharger on a 12 volt battery. Also, there are now available Slam chargers that promise to recharge a normal Phone battery in either half or 10% of the normal time, and will give you up to 80% of a full battery "On the quick" The Myth is that this will shorten the working life of your battery. How true is that?. as Greg said, some Li-ion battery packs are made to rapid charge. my phone charges 80% in a matter of minutes, if it is connected to a high output power supply. however, this is using the internal charging controller. taking a battery pack designed for a slow charge and "slam" charging it is very likely to shorten the life, or even make it burn violently. interesting trivia bit: there is a series from an earlier genertion about a young inventor named Tom Swift. one of the books is "Tom Swift's Electric Racer." it is about him building an electric car using lithium batteries - and one major issue he had to deal with was the potential for the batteries to catch fire. and remember, this was written when cars and airplanes were the subject of science fiction. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 19, 2018 15:41:17 GMT
I know with automobile batteries, the aspirin in the cell trick will get you another season, as long as the cells are not damaged.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 20, 2018 6:15:49 GMT
Old "wet" car/bike batteries can be rejuvenated by a fresh splash of the inner water and acid mix, but dont get it wrong, but they are the "wet" type, you cant do that with dry batteries, or now with the modern sealed for life type.
Maybe there are a few ways of waking up a "sleeper" battery, but we have to call bunkum on may of the interwebs "this is how you do it" fakery.
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 20, 2018 6:43:39 GMT
Old "wet" car/bike batteries can be rejuvenated by a fresh splash of the inner water and acid mix, but dont get it wrong, but they are the "wet" type, you cant do that with dry batteries, or now with the modern sealed for life type. Maybe there are a few ways of waking up a "sleeper" battery, but we have to call bunkum on may of the interwebs "this is how you do it" fakery. The most common cause of failure in a wet lead-acid battery is Sulfation. That is when lead sulfate crystals coat the plates. It happens whenever a lead acid battery is left for a long period of time not fully charged. Once sulfation happens, there isn't anything you can do to reverse it so if you have a spare battery sitting around, keep it charged. It is often thought that cold weather is the worse enemy of car batteries. This is because it's in cold weather that a lead-acid batter is at it's lowest capacity and an engine is hardest to start. So if the battery is having issues, this is the time it is going to manifest it. The truth is, it's hot weather that does the most damage to the battery. I read a study a number of years ago by a major battery manufacture. What they found was that the average car battery lasts about 48 months. It doesn't matter if it's a low cost battery or a premium battery. While the cranking amps and the reserve capacity of the premium battery may be better, the life span is not. So wither they offer you a 24, 36, 48 or 60 month battery, it's probably only going to last 48 months. What you are paying for is the warranty on how much they will give you in credit towards a new battery when your 60 month battery fails after 48 months. They also found that batteries operated in hot climates had much shorter lives than batteries operated in colder climates. Again, contrary to popular beliefs. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 20, 2018 6:59:15 GMT
Interesting Greg.
I was believing that running a car in winter with the hard cold start, running A/C, fans, headlights and all the other toys like a rear or front or both screen quick defrosts and heated seats and the like was the worst enemy to a battery because on short runs you never quite get a full charge on the battery...
I know this to be true with a neighbour who kill the battery every winter because they only live three mile away from work, and never get to "repay" the initial drain on their battery.
My own?. I expect 7 yrs from a battery, because I use "Gold star" type battery, I pay a little more for a better brick in the first place, and that has been the case, I am now on the third battery from new having just replaced the last one, and the car is just close to 18 yrs old.
I have the 60 month warranty as well, but, I dont expect to use it, because it WILL be over that when it needs replaced, unless its a bad one to start with?. and so far, it aint.
So you suggest that the Hot weather, and maybe running excessive A/C, wears the battery quicker?.
That is a good point, and, because the car starts quicker, you dont notice the lower power.
I will have to investigate that... its interesting.
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Post by the light works on Feb 20, 2018 15:13:53 GMT
Interesting Greg. I was believing that running a car in winter with the hard cold start, running A/C, fans, headlights and all the other toys like a rear or front or both screen quick defrosts and heated seats and the like was the worst enemy to a battery because on short runs you never quite get a full charge on the battery... I know this to be true with a neighbour who kill the battery every winter because they only live three mile away from work, and never get to "repay" the initial drain on their battery. My own?. I expect 7 yrs from a battery, because I use "Gold star" type battery, I pay a little more for a better brick in the first place, and that has been the case, I am now on the third battery from new having just replaced the last one, and the car is just close to 18 yrs old. I have the 60 month warranty as well, but, I dont expect to use it, because it WILL be over that when it needs replaced, unless its a bad one to start with?. and so far, it aint. So you suggest that the Hot weather, and maybe running excessive A/C, wears the battery quicker?. That is a good point, and, because the car starts quicker, you dont notice the lower power. I will have to investigate that... its interesting. he's going more basic than that. hot batteries physically break down faster than cold batteries. this is totally separate from cold batteries having a more sluggish chemical reaction and so not being able to produce the "cranking amps" as generously as warm batteries. another interesting tidbit: because of the chemical composition of the electrolyte, a drained car battery will freeze solid at a higher temperature than it takes to freeze a fully charged car battery. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 21, 2018 7:22:38 GMT
Interesting Greg. I was believing that running a car in winter with the hard cold start, running A/C, fans, headlights and all the other toys like a rear or front or both screen quick defrosts and heated seats and the like was the worst enemy to a battery because on short runs you never quite get a full charge on the battery... I know this to be true with a neighbour who kill the battery every winter because they only live three mile away from work, and never get to "repay" the initial drain on their battery. My own?. I expect 7 yrs from a battery, because I use "Gold star" type battery, I pay a little more for a better brick in the first place, and that has been the case, I am now on the third battery from new having just replaced the last one, and the car is just close to 18 yrs old. I have the 60 month warranty as well, but, I dont expect to use it, because it WILL be over that when it needs replaced, unless its a bad one to start with?. and so far, it aint. So you suggest that the Hot weather, and maybe running excessive A/C, wears the battery quicker?. That is a good point, and, because the car starts quicker, you dont notice the lower power. I will have to investigate that... its interesting. he's going more basic than that. hot batteries physically break down faster than cold batteries. this is totally separate from cold batteries having a more sluggish chemical reaction and so not being able to produce the "cranking amps" as generously as warm batteries. another interesting tidbit: because of the chemical composition of the electrolyte, a drained car battery will freeze solid at a higher temperature than it takes to freeze a fully charged car battery. So as a suggestion that may be useful in the future, should we be looking at ways to cool batteries?. Do Electric cars need a radiator for cooling?. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 21, 2018 14:17:08 GMT
Do Electric cars need a radiator for cooling?. Both Tesla and GM have liquid cooled batteries that uses a small radiator type heat exchanger to remove excess heat from the batteries. I'm not sure if other EV manufactures do the same. In the case of the Tesla Model S, it's not so small. It's about the same size as a conventional gasoline fueled car. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 21, 2018 15:42:44 GMT
he's going more basic than that. hot batteries physically break down faster than cold batteries. this is totally separate from cold batteries having a more sluggish chemical reaction and so not being able to produce the "cranking amps" as generously as warm batteries. another interesting tidbit: because of the chemical composition of the electrolyte, a drained car battery will freeze solid at a higher temperature than it takes to freeze a fully charged car battery. So as a suggestion that may be useful in the future, should we be looking at ways to cool batteries?. Do Electric cars need a radiator for cooling?. it occurs to me to wonder if that is why some carmakers are now moving the battery out of the engine compartment. |
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Post by wvengineer on Feb 21, 2018 23:13:35 GMT
As far as moving the batteries, my understanding is that it is due to having a tiny hood with lots of stuff to cram in it. The battery is probably one of the easiest things to move in a car. All it really needs going to it are two heavy gauge wires. It's a lot easier to move than the air cleaner. That being said, if I can't find a battery, I'm noy buying that car. It is fun to see just how well a salesman knows his product when I can't find the battery.
On a separate note. Toyota and Hyundai use air cooling systems in their hybrid battery packs.
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2018 2:23:38 GMT
As far as moving the batteries, my understanding is that it is due to having a tiny hood with lots of stuff to cram in it. The battery is probably one of the easiest things to move in a car. All it really needs going to it are two heavy gauge wires. It's a lot easier to move than the air cleaner. That being said, if I can't find a battery, I'm noy buying that car. It is fun to see just how well a salesman knows his product when I can't find the battery. On a separate note. Toyota and Hyundai use air cooling systems in their hybrid battery packs. definitely a more common reason. we like knowing where the batteries are, so we can disconnect them after the car goes splat. it is sometimes easier done than others. we've had a few that the battery went splat, too. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 22, 2018 8:05:33 GMT
So as a suggestion that may be useful in the future, should we be looking at ways to cool batteries?. Do Electric cars need a radiator for cooling?. it occurs to me to wonder if that is why some carmakers are now moving the battery out of the engine compartment. Thats not a new idea, my old Mini had the battery under the back seats. [that was the "traveller" mini-van estate version....] |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 22, 2018 8:07:35 GMT
Do Electric cars need a radiator for cooling?. Both Tesla and GM have liquid cooled batteries that uses a small radiator type heat exchanger to remove excess heat from the batteries. I'm not sure if other EV manufactures do the same. In the case of the Tesla Model S, it's not so small. It's about the same size as a conventional gasoline fueled car. This I didnt know... good to hear they are ahead of us on that then?.. after all, they have gone a long ways since their original rest-mod of a Lotus Esprit havnt they?. {Tesla] |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 22, 2018 8:18:45 GMT
As far as moving the batteries, my understanding is that it is due to having a tiny hood with lots of stuff to cram in it. The battery is probably one of the easiest things to move in a car. All it really needs going to it are two heavy gauge wires. It's a lot easier to move than the air cleaner. That being said, if I can't find a battery, I'm noy buying that car. It is fun to see just how well a salesman knows his product when I can't find the battery. On a separate note. Toyota and Hyundai use air cooling systems in their hybrid battery packs. definitely a more common reason. we like knowing where the batteries are, so we can disconnect them after the car goes splat. it is sometimes easier done than others. we've had a few that the battery went splat, too. This all harks back to the favourite game on a loading bay with a new vehicle of find the dipstick..[point at the transport manager] There SHOULD be, by now, a small diagram under the bonnet, of the important parts you may need to be looking at, such as oil filler, dipstick, water for engine coolant and windscreen wash, brake.clutch fluids, battery check, and other important fluids, including, where used, power steering fluids. If I cant find the battery, and I cant be told where it is, and then once you know, if its not that easy to get at, then yes, I would consider not using that vehicle. I have driven a couple of cars where its alongside the spare wheel in the boot... and thats where you find the onboard supplied tools as well. But then we get to the bulbs on a certain Mercedes, where sidelight bulbs require removing nearly half the wing to get at them, and a possible charge of over £100 just to change a bulb. Also on my current car, asides from the under-the-bonnet fuse box, just to the right of the right side passenger on the under side of the dashboard, is a secondary fuse box, behind a pop-out panel, that isnt marked in any way. Looks like a blanked off panel if your not looking for it. I only found it on page 40-something of an extensive search through the user manual, and thats where the fuse for the sidelights that has blown was. Annoying. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 22, 2018 15:57:47 GMT
definitely a more common reason. we like knowing where the batteries are, so we can disconnect them after the car goes splat. it is sometimes easier done than others. we've had a few that the battery went splat, too. This all harks back to the favourite game on a loading bay with a new vehicle of find the dipstick..[point at the transport manager] There SHOULD be, by now, a small diagram under the bonnet, of the important parts you may need to be looking at, such as oil filler, dipstick, water for engine coolant and windscreen wash, brake.clutch fluids, battery check, and other important fluids, including, where used, power steering fluids. If I cant find the battery, and I cant be told where it is, and then once you know, if its not that easy to get at, then yes, I would consider not using that vehicle. I have driven a couple of cars where its alongside the spare wheel in the boot... and thats where you find the onboard supplied tools as well. But then we get to the bulbs on a certain Mercedes, where sidelight bulbs require removing nearly half the wing to get at them, and a possible charge of over £100 just to change a bulb. Also on my current car, asides from the under-the-bonnet fuse box, just to the right of the right side passenger on the under side of the dashboard, is a secondary fuse box, behind a pop-out panel, that isnt marked in any way. Looks like a blanked off panel if your not looking for it. I only found it on page 40-something of an extensive search through the user manual, and thats where the fuse for the sidelights that has blown was. Annoying. some of our vehicles still don't have bright yellow markings on things that may need to be checked. of course, I'm still dealing with an issue where instead of loosening a bolt and lifting a clamp, some guys still prefer to cut a hundred dollars worth of wires. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 23, 2018 7:38:13 GMT
Dont go there... I was involved in a complete re-wire of a bike.
The bike had been stripped down for a frame re-paint, and instead of doing the sensible and taping up the wires, they cut them.
The wires that passed THROUGH the frame... as in, went inside the tubular steel at one point and came out at another.
Yeah.
They cut a perfectly good harness. Just to avoid 10 mins work before the spray gun.
And whats more, they pulled it out without pulling through at least a bit of string to pull through a new harness with....
My answer to that?.
Well, the bit of frame it went through was beneath the fuel tank, the harness went through that to avoid chaffing on the tank, so I wrapped the new harness in Duck-Tape, and then shrink-wrap rubber [the stuff you shrink with a hair dryer] and zip-tied it to the frame where the tank was least likely to chew on it...
I am presuming that worked, because there was never any complaints.
The holes from the old harness?. I had them welded up with small patches and hidden under the new paint job like they never existed.
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Post by the light works on Feb 23, 2018 15:07:14 GMT
Dont go there... I was involved in a complete re-wire of a bike. The bike had been stripped down for a frame re-paint, and instead of doing the sensible and taping up the wires, they cut them. The wires that passed THROUGH the frame... as in, went inside the tubular steel at one point and came out at another. Yeah. They cut a perfectly good harness. Just to avoid 10 mins work before the spray gun. And whats more, they pulled it out without pulling through at least a bit of string to pull through a new harness with.... My answer to that?. Well, the bit of frame it went through was beneath the fuel tank, the harness went through that to avoid chaffing on the tank, so I wrapped the new harness in Duck-Tape, and then shrink-wrap rubber [the stuff you shrink with a hair dryer] and zip-tied it to the frame where the tank was least likely to chew on it... I am presuming that worked, because there was never any complaints. The holes from the old harness?. I had them welded up with small patches and hidden under the new paint job like they never existed. DUCT TAPE??? |
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Post by GTCGreg on Feb 23, 2018 15:54:49 GMT
Duck Tape. It's a name brand of duct tape.  |
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