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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 29, 2018 18:02:24 GMT
So a very quick overview;
Lucasfilm, and hence Star Wars, was bought by Disney back in 2012. Bob Iger, CEO of Disney, placed Kathleen Kennedy as the president of Lucasfilm seemingly intending for Lucasfilm to be run along the same lines as Marvel.
Since then there have been four new SW films;
The Force Awakens; A half souless rehash of the ironically named 'A New Hope'. It was a spectacular success, and for its many, many flaws was entertaining enough and promised an interesting journey ahead. In short it did the job it was meant to do in being more watchable than the prequels.
Rogue One; A good solid film that tied into the original film rather nicely. While there were well documented production issues this is not apparent in the final product. Personally I did feel, even at the time, that they missed out on the opportunity to use this to create their own 'Dirty Dozen' film series here. Although this did literally half as well as Awakens looked at objectively this is not that surprising. As good as it is it isn't really the kind of film many would want to go back to see multiple times.
The Last Jedi; An insulting disjointed mess that didn't do that much better at the box office than Rogue One.
Solo; A dull uninteresting film few wanted, few asked for and fewer went to see. This was the first SW film to make a loss, and not a minor loss either as when you start adding marketing costs to the production budget losses may well exceed John Carter of Mars as the biggest box office bomb in history.
During this time Lucasfilm, under Kennedy, has;
Given the Force a gender.
Called fans (IE their customers) 'Toxic'
Claimed that people didn't see Rogue One and/or were starting to realize and note how Awakens was basically Ep IV were 'sexist white men' who were 'intimidated by strong women'.
Looked around the special effects department and proclaimed that they wanted to see 'Less white men'. Note; All of the directors they have employed on their films, which is more than a few as they seem to last about two months on average, are white men.
Called their customers 'man-babies' for complaining about the mess that was Last Jedi, adding in the usual lines about them being sexist and racist. This is regardless of the fact that none of the complaints were actually about the gender or race of any of the characters or cast. And if their customers really were that sexist and racist they would have never gone to see Awakens.
Claimed that 'girls don't relate to Luke Skywaker' and stated that they want to make films for 'eight year old girls'. This seems to be based on personal wishes and not, say, actually looking at how many women and girls were actually watching the films.
Several months after the above statement about 'for girls/kids' they go off on a rant about the sexuality of Lando Calrission. A week before Solo was due for release. Because if there is one thing the parents of your average eight year old want to do it is to talk about sexuality to their kids. Or take their kids to a film that seems to contain sexual content.
Attempted to paint customers in a bad light by claiming, without any evidence, that they had forced an actress off social media.
More recently;
Bob Iger does something Kennedy hasn't done in a while, give an interview. In that interview Iger shows more leadership in twenty minutes than Kennedy has in six years. Accepting that they have not handled the films well, accepting responsibility and simply not being insulting or dismissive of the customers.
Kennedy gets an award from a panel that she herself sits on.
Kennedy's contract with Lucasfilm has been extended for another three years.
Customers have given up;
And thus it ends.
Once voices they were raised with joy,
children played all day with a Star War toy.
We bought the books, we bought the hype.
But now that bright day has turned to night.
No longer for Star Wars do we lust,
for those dreams have turned to bitter dust.
They looked at all the things that we thought great,
ignored them and replaced it all with hate.
Hate for those who did refuse,
to pretend they gave us genius and not refuse.
And thus upon this day,
I did not look back, I just walked away.
I would not, could not, swallow their lies,
So this is how Star Wars dies.
And thus it ends, at least for me,
Not with passion, but in bitter apathy.
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 20:07:38 GMT
Right now, the only potentially bright spot is that a final season of "Clone Wars" has been green-lit for Disney's streaming service.
But beyond that, it's sod all.
Only hardcore Kennedy supporters are awaiting episode 9, and they're just as toxic as Kennedy herself. The new cartoon, meanwhile, is being greeted as warmly as an alcoholic cousin.
The toys are rotting on retailer shelves, meaning that Hasbro and Mattel have taken hits. Things are so bad that $5 and $6 toys are being liquidated through Dollar Tree for $1 apiece; Dollar Tree has a reputation as being a liquidator of last resort, which should say how bad things are. And I have photos from the local Toys-R-Us and H-E-B Plus grocery proving how much of a glut of product there is. When you can provide photographic proof of three-plus different assortments of product sitting right next to each other, you know that something's gone horribly wrong.
To be brutally honest, about the only thing that can save the franchise right now is for Disney to let it the movies go fallow, then announce that they'll be doing 7A, 8A, and 9A, thereby kicking Kennedy's movies to the curb and erasing them from the main continuity.
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 20:10:03 GMT
 Seriously. This was part of an end cap display at the local H-E-B Plus a few months ago. We have Force Awakens, Rogue One, and The Last Jedi product all next to each other ahead of Solo's release. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 29, 2018 20:22:26 GMT
Seriously. This was part of an end cap display at the local H-E-B Plus a few months ago. We have Force Awakens, Rogue One, and The Last Jedi product all next to each other ahead of Solo's release. I'm not really into the Star Wars culture. Is this a no-no? Do you really think that a 9 year old kid looking for an action figure cares what is on the next shelf? |
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 29, 2018 20:34:51 GMT
Seriously. This was part of an end cap display at the local H-E-B Plus a few months ago. We have Force Awakens, Rogue One, and The Last Jedi product all next to each other ahead of Solo's release. I'm not really into the Star Wars culture. Is this a no-no? Do you really think that a 9 year old kid looking for an action figure cares what is on the next shelf? It's more a sign that those products did not sell at full price when the movies came out so,the manufactures are gong to make a loss on them. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 20:35:47 GMT
Seriously. This was part of an end cap display at the local H-E-B Plus a few months ago. We have Force Awakens, Rogue One, and The Last Jedi product all next to each other ahead of Solo's release. I'm not really into the Star Wars culture. Is this a no-no? In the 1980s and early to mid 1990s, one could commonly see toy companies like Hasbro, Mattel, Lego, and Galoob ship at least part of the previous year's assortment alongside the current year's assortment, much to the delight of fans who may have missed the initial offering. In some instances, you might see individual specific products ship for 3 - 4 years. But things changed greatly near the end of the 1990s and into the early 2000s. It soon became apparent that not only was this practice no longer tenable, when it came to heavily merchandise-driven franchises like "G. I. Joe" and "Transformers" it became necessary to ship multiple waves of product each year in order to keep the interest of retailers and younger audiences. Whereas product could sit on shelves for years and no one would care if the product didn't show clear signs of it, nowadays if anything sits around for more than a few months people wonder what's going on. Finding product from 2 - 3 years ago? Either your lucky day if it's a popular item and in limited quantities, or something very, very sad. In this case, it's the latter. The movies simply came out in such short succession that retailers and toy manufacturers had no time to clear their back stock out before the next one arrived, something that further compounded the slow sales from the assortment before. The end result is such a massive glut of product that some people factor in the deluge of Star Wars overstock into the causes of Toys R Us' demise. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 20:39:50 GMT
I'm not really into the Star Wars culture. Is this a no-no? Do you really think that a 9 year old kid looking for an action figure cares what is on the next shelf? It's more a sign that those products did not sell at full price when the movies came out so,the manufactures are gong to make a loss on them. Not quite. Here in the US, most toy companies receive their money once they ship the product off to the retailers; unless the retailers return the product or a defect is discovered, the manufacturers are done with it once it leaves their warehouses. Thus, it's on the retailers to have to worry about. But, the companies do have to worry about what doesn't leave their warehouses, the product that doesn't ship out because nobody's ordered it. This is a big part of why some companies - like Hasbro and Right Stuf Animation - maintain their own retail services on top of the regular retail services we think of. Even then, a manufacturer can still be stuck with a glut of product. This forces them into a situation to where they have to either liquidate in order to clear it out (in which they can take some loss in order to empty their warehouses) or sit on product that's not moving. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 20:45:39 GMT
Uploaded my photos from Toys R Us to Twitter.
What you see is horrific from the standards of the toy industry.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 29, 2018 21:01:36 GMT
To,be honest those Twitter posts show more than just Star Wars Franchise toys.
Ghostbusters, The Secret Life of Pets are just two I can identify but there's also a car model franchise.
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 29, 2018 21:03:29 GMT
It's more a sign that those products did not sell at full price when the movies came out so,the manufactures are gong to make a loss on them. Not quite. Here in the US, most toy companies receive their money once they ship the product off to the retailers; unless the retailers return the product or a defect is discovered, the manufacturers are done with it once it leaves their warehouses. Thus, it's on the retailers to have to worry about. But, the companies do have to worry about what doesn't leave their warehouses, the product that doesn't ship out because nobody's ordered it. This is a big part of why some companies - like Hasbro and Right Stuf Animation - maintain their own retail services on top of the regular retail services we think of. Even then, a manufacturer can still be stuck with a glut of product. This forces them into a situation to where they have to either liquidate in order to clear it out (in which they can take some loss in order to empty their warehouses) or sit on product that's not moving. Yes but on the overall manufacturing run and the licence they are going to,take a bath if not on those specific items in ten shop. |
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 29, 2018 21:05:30 GMT
Uploaded my photos from Toys R Us to Twitter. What you see is horrific from the standards of the toy industry. You think the toy industry is the only industry that has this problem? It's called marketing and pretty much the same applies whether you are trying to sell toys or designer clothes or even cars. Anything that has a buying public shelf life. Losing $2 on a toy is still better than losing $5 because it's sitting in a warehouse rotting. I fail to see what is so "horrific" about it. Maybe your followers on Twitter will see differently. |
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Post by mrfatso on Sept 29, 2018 21:17:21 GMT
What you see is horrific from the standards of the toy industry. You think the toy industry is the only industry that has this problem? It's called marketing and pretty much the same applies whether you are trying to sell toys or designer clothes or even cars. Anything that has a buying public shelf life. Losing $2 on a toy is still better than losing $5 because it's sitting in a warehouse rotting. I fail to see what is so "horrific" about it. Maybe your followers on Twitter will see differently. Added to,that the photos were taken when ToYs R Us entered administration and closed all its stores in America (and the UK as well) other stores have done the same recently. Maplins was a British electronics store you would have been able to get similar pictures of mark downs on the stuff they sold. It's more to do with bricks and mortar stores not being able,to,compete with the Internet. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 21:38:26 GMT
You think the toy industry is the only industry that has this problem? It's called marketing and pretty much the same applies whether you are trying to sell toys or designer clothes or even cars. Anything that has a buying public shelf life. Losing $2 on a toy is still better than losing $5 because it's sitting in a warehouse rotting. I fail to see what is so "horrific" about it. Maybe your followers on Twitter will see differently. In the current toy industry, you've got 3 - 4 months to move a product or else someone's going to wonder what's wrong. It's one thing to re-order and get replenishment, but that has to be gone in about 3 - 4 months as well. We had entire shelves full of items that were a year-plus past their release date. That's like a deli full of expired and worm-infested meat. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 29, 2018 21:46:43 GMT
There is a YouTube channel that was keeping track of Star Wars toys sales since before Toys'R'Us was reported to be in trouble. He did so simply by filming the toy aisles when he was out shopping in several different places.
The contrast between Star Wars and practically everything else in terms of what was on the shelves was, for Disney, horrific. There were shelves packed tight of all the various SW merchandise going back as far as The Force Awakens, so some two years old. The basic figures were simply not selling, in several locations he was able to pull out all the Rose Tico figures and build a one to three foot tall tower just of those.
As for the other items. Well the worse products were the Millennium Falcon, which in every store were packed full on the shelves but clearly hadn't been moved or moved in months. Then there was the landspeeder car-toy (You can see these in the top left of the top two images ironhold posted.) The YouTuber visited his local Toys'R'Us just before it closed its doors for the last time. He first noted that not a single one of those toys had been sold since the last time he'd been there, which was about two months earlier. Then he managed to slip into the store area for a minute. Even he seemed shocked to see that along the wall there was some 50 feet of Landspeeder toys stacked about six to seven feet high.
This is similar to the situation here in the UK. There is a shop near me that has had Awakens figures on sale, and a large box of Lightsabres, that have been sitting there for some two years. The figures have fared a little better as last time I looked they only had ten or so remaining. Of course they started with around twenty. In comparison it took them about six months to sell practically all of their Batman Vs Superman toys.
The local Asda/Malmart's toy section shows much the same thing. The SW toys are two or so years old, collecting dust, while the Marvel shelves are basically empty. Hell, Power Rangers figures are selling better in that store - only one standard figure from the Dino Charge series (two years ago) and a single larger figure from that same season are on the shelves. Everything else is from the current series.
In the short term Kennedy can hide this, as they basically sold off the rights to produce merchandise so Lucasfilm doesn't make a loss on the lack of sales in the short run. In the long run however this is a monumental disaster, as when it comes time to renegotiate such contracts companies are A; Not going to be interested in franchise that isn't selling. B; If they are interested they are not going to be willing to pay anything remotely close to what was paid before.
The same holds for distribution deals. Solo, and I would assume the films since Awakens, managed to cut a deal where Lucasfilm got 60% of the US Domestic box office Gross. The typical figure is 50%. After Solo, or when that agreement runs out, you can bet that cinema chains will bluntly tell Kennedy where she can shove such a deal moving forward.
But I digress, somewhat.
Lucas didn't become a billion $ empire from the box office. It made all its money from merchandise sales. Hell, Star Wars is WHY we get piles of merchandise for every film that comes out; Lucas invented the idea. Now its lost those sales, from the looks of it to a 25 year old kids TV series.
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Post by ironhold on Sept 29, 2018 23:02:12 GMT
At one point, there was a rumor that Hasbro and Disney were close to blows (metaphorically speaking) over how big a dud Star Wars was.
On one hand, Marvel Comics toys are frequently top-sellers, and Disney still owns the rights to the English dub of a season of Transformers. So Hasbro has reason to keep Disney friendly.
On the other hand, Hasbro is getting sick of the Star Wars situation as well.
Best-case scenario would be that Disney realizes how much of a hit they've taken and tries to make the money back by selling off what Saban properties they still own, leading to Hasbro and their buddies Shout! Factory managing to purchase everything.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 29, 2018 23:06:53 GMT
As Cyber points out, Star Wars figures are movie based, and even may have been what started the movie based action figure industry. But Power Rangers, Superman, Batman, Transformers and others are not only movie based, but also Saturday morning TV based. Turn on any kids channel on Saturday morning and you won't have to wait long to see a Power Rangers show or even old Superman and Batman reruns from the 70's or earlier. What you won't find is many SW based TV shows. It's not that surprising at all that SW figures have a much shorter shelf life.
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Post by Cybermortis on Sept 29, 2018 23:33:15 GMT
Actually the reverse should be true; TV series, certainly Power Rangers, tend to change the toy line at least once every year to keep up with the TV series. The Power Ranger figures people bought three years ago are for different characters, and those bought two years ago are the same characters but with different outfits or accessories.
The SW films on the other hand have a gap of at least 2-3 years between episodes with the same characters. So the figures based on those films should be viable during this period.
In any case Star Wars has gone from something everyone would agree was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, franchises in history. To something that everyone but those at Lucasfilm have good reason to view as a rotting, toxic, corpse.
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Post by GTCGreg on Sept 30, 2018 3:28:42 GMT
Actually the reverse should be true; TV series, certainly Power Rangers, tend to change the toy line at least once every year to keep up with the TV series. The Power Ranger figures people bought three years ago are for different characters, and those bought two years ago are the same characters but with different outfits or accessories. The SW films on the other hand have a gap of at least 2-3 years between episodes with the same characters. So the figures based on those films should be viable during this period. In any case Star Wars has gone from something everyone would agree was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, franchises in history. To something that everyone but those at Lucasfilm have good reason to view as a rotting, toxic, corpse. Guess I never kept up on the advancement of power ranger characters. When my kids were that age, they were never really interested in action figures. They would sometimes role play the characters, but never wanted to play with figures. My son was more into gadgets. When he was 9, I got him a Radio Shack Armatron. He would play with it for hours on end. I was over at his house a few weeks ago (he's 35 now) and he still has it sitting on a shelf in his computer room. |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 30, 2018 3:42:04 GMT
As Cyber points out, Star Wars figures are movie based, and even may have been what started the movie based action figure industry. But Power Rangers, Superman, Batman, Transformers and others are not only movie based, but also Saturday morning TV based. Turn on any kids channel on Saturday morning and you won't have to wait long to see a Power Rangers show or even old Superman and Batman reruns from the 70's or earlier. What you won't find is many SW based TV shows. It's not that surprising at all that SW figures have a much shorter shelf life. Actually, no. The same rule applies to most other toy lines as well, like "Transformers" and "My Little Pony". Even Lego and Hot Wheels have to keep churning out new offerings every few months to stay fresh. In fact, it's actually quite common to see 2 - 3 different color schemes per individually-carded Hot Wheels car per release year nowadays, as that's a cheap way to get more product out there. You can go to some toy sections and, say, literally see the same semi truck & sports car combo in two different color schemes, but with the same set name, sitting right next to each other. (In this case, purple plastic with silver paint depicting space-related imagery vs. black plastic with neon highlights and a giant robot head on the side.) |
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Post by ironhold on Sept 30, 2018 3:54:11 GMT
Actually the reverse should be true; TV series, certainly Power Rangers, tend to change the toy line at least once every year to keep up with the TV series. The Power Ranger figures people bought three years ago are for different characters, and those bought two years ago are the same characters but with different outfits or accessories. The SW films on the other hand have a gap of at least 2-3 years between episodes with the same characters. So the figures based on those films should be viable during this period. In any case Star Wars has gone from something everyone would agree was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, franchises in history. To something that everyone but those at Lucasfilm have good reason to view as a rotting, toxic, corpse. Guess I never kept up on the advancement of power ranger characters. When my kids were that age, they were never really interested in action figures. They would sometimes role play the characters, but never wanted to play with figures. My son was more into gadgets. When he was 9, I got him a Radio Shack Armatron. He would play with it for hours on end. I was over at his house a few weeks ago (he's 35 now) and he still has it sitting on a shelf in his computer room. Super Sentai, the franchise from which the "Power Rangers" footage and toys are taken, refreshes every year. 50 to 52 episodes, and maybe a low-budget theatrical release, then it's on to the next team. Saban tried to ignore this when they launched Power Rangers, and did in fact originally plan on keeping the same cast members for as long as possible. But save for Austin St. John (Jason, the original Red Ranger), all of the actors were already in their 20s; it was getting harder and harder to pass them off as teenagers each season. This led to the decision to clean house during Turbo, wherein all remaining "legacy" actors save for Jason Narvy and Paul Schrier (Skull and Bulk, respectively) were let go and replaced. 4/5ths of the Turbo team were held over for "In Space", but that was it. Afterwords, save for Megaforce / Super Megaforce, each new season would bring a new team. That being said, however, the old characters weren't shut out entirely. During "Lost Universe", actress Valerie Vernon - the series' Pink Ranger - collapsed during filming due to a previously undiagnosed medical condition that would limit her ability to continue with the series. To cover for this, the "In Space" cast was brought back, and one of the female characters took over in-show. Since then, it's been tradition to have at least one character from a previous team show up for a proper cross-over event in order to reinforce each season's ties to each other. This is on top of Paul Schrier and Jason David Frank returning for full-on seasons with their characters. It's even become a thing for the Sentai movies to be cross-over events now. |
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