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Post by wvengineer on Jul 30, 2019 16:19:42 GMT
Admittedly I don't follow movies much, but I had not heard of this Alita: Battle Angle move until this. I had to look it up to even see what it was.
My interpritation is this movie is more focused on the anime/manga fan crowd and less on the general audience. As such these are also people that tend to like the memorabilia as well. So the special edition disc sets are going to be more popular per capita with fans of the movie than they would something that is more general audience that will be more content with a digital copy or just a basic set of discs.
Given it is not as widely known as the MCU movies, it is easy to see how a buyer for Best buy could underestimate demand.
The other thing missing here is actual sales numbers.
Let's take another hypothetical: A store orders 2 case of Alita dics and 10 cases of Captain Marvel and let say there are 50 discs in each case. Alita sells 99 discs and there is one left of the shelf. CM sells 350, there are plenty left on the shelf as well as a couple cases in the back for when they run out. Which is the more successful movie? The one that clears out the shelves or the one that has extra stock in the back?
There are just too many unknowns here to really judge what is going on.
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Post by ironhold on Jul 30, 2019 17:20:08 GMT
Admittedly I don't follow movies much, but I had not heard of this Alita: Battle Angle move until this. I had to look it up to even see what it was. My interpritation is this movie is more focused on the anime/manga fan crowd and less on the general audience. As such these are also people that tend to like the memorabilia as well. So the special edition disc sets are going to be more popular per capita with fans of the movie than they would something that is more general audience that will be more content with a digital copy or just a basic set of discs. Given it is not as widely known as the MCU movies, it is easy to see how a buyer for Best buy could underestimate demand. The other thing missing here is actual sales numbers. Let's take another hypothetical: A store orders 2 case of Alita dics and 10 cases of Captain Marvel and let say there are 50 discs in each case. Alita sells 99 discs and there is one left of the shelf. CM sells 350, there are plenty left on the shelf as well as a couple cases in the back for when they run out. Which is the more successful movie? The one that clears out the shelves or the one that has extra stock in the back? There are just too many unknowns here to really judge what is going on. To put it simply, imagine a generic teen high school movie. "Captain Marvel" is the queen bee. It's the start of the school year, and so she's going to have this big debut to establish her status. It's such a big deal that "Dark Phoenix", her #1 lackey, has scaled herself back so as not to potentially upstage her queen. Enter spunky tomboy "Alita", who arrives first, makes a grand entrance, and steals the queen bee's thunder. Cue a certain queen bee getting furious and using her followers to destroy the upstart. Well, that's basically what's been going on. "Captain Marvel" was to be the big "girl power" action movie of the year, so much that there's evidence to the effect that Disney pressured Fox into reworking parts of "Dark Phoenix" so that the films weren't in direct competition despite their similar release dates. Instead, once the general public came to learn that "Alita" was scheduled to hit theaters a full month ahead of "Captain Marvel" the drama started. First it was hit pieces talking about how "problematic" it was that the film didn't have an all-Asian cast since it was an adaptation of a Japanese franchise, never mind the fact that the source material explicitly stated that it was taking place in a post-apocalyptic North America. Then it was pieces claiming that "Alita" under-performed and asking if it would affect "Captain Marvel". Then it was pieces blaming "Alita" for "Dark Phoenix" flopping. Now it's pieces claiming that "Alita" fans are all alt-right trolls. In fact, right now I've got people coming after me on Twitter because how dare I provide the link to Best Buy's website showing that when it comes to the retail-exclusive steel books "Alita" is already out of stock after just a few days while "Captain Marvel" is still in stock after a month. I'm being called all sorts of things right now and someone is actually trying to tell me that the website is essentially fake news. edit - It's my understanding that if "Alita" makes $30 - $32 million in home video sales then it'll clear the final hurdle needed for a sequel. I can only imagine the screaming that will happen once this takes place. |
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Post by wvengineer on Jul 30, 2019 18:41:23 GMT
To put it simply, imagine a generic teen high school movie. "Captain Marvel" is the queen bee. It's the start of the school year, and so she's going to have this big debut to establish her status. It's such a big deal that "Dark Phoenix", her #1 lackey, has scaled herself back so as not to potentially upstage her queen. Enter spunky tomboy "Alita", who arrives first, makes a grand entrance, and steals the queen bee's thunder. Cue a certain queen bee getting furious and using her followers to destroy the upstart. Well, that's basically what's been going on. "Captain Marvel" was to be the big "girl power" action movie of the year, so much that there's evidence to the effect that Disney pressured Fox into reworking parts of "Dark Phoenix" so that the films weren't in direct competition despite their similar release dates. Instead, once the general public came to learn that "Alita" was scheduled to hit theaters a full month ahead of "Captain Marvel" the drama started. First it was hit pieces talking about how "problematic" it was that the film didn't have an all-Asian cast since it was an adaptation of a Japanese franchise, never mind the fact that the source material explicitly stated that it was taking place in a post-apocalyptic North America. Then it was pieces claiming that "Alita" under-performed and asking if it would affect "Captain Marvel". Then it was pieces blaming "Alita" for "Dark Phoenix" flopping. Now it's pieces claiming that "Alita" fans are all alt-right trolls. In fact, right now I've got people coming after me on Twitter because how dare I provide the link to Best Buy's website showing that when it comes to the retail-exclusive steel books "Alita" is already out of stock after just a few days while "Captain Marvel" is still in stock after a month. I'm being called all sorts of things right now and someone is actually trying to tell me that the website is essentially fake news. edit - It's my understanding that if "Alita" makes $30 - $32 million in home video sales then it'll clear the final hurdle needed for a sequel. I can only imagine the screaming that will happen once this takes place. How many DVD's of Captain Marvel have been sold? How many DVD's of Alita? These are basic facts needed to make a comparison. Since Alita is only was release on the 23rd, we can simply compare the 1st weeks of sales. To use your analogy, Maybe Captain Marvel is the queen diva who is put out that someone is stealing her spotlight. However, at this point is is just as likely that the tomboy is making a big huge stink trying to justify elevate their status higher than it really is. Is this Tomboy a washed out has-been who is desperate to get spotlight again and overblown a few incidents as proof of how they were robbed of their 15 minutes of fame? (Insert Mel Gibson joke here...) Maybe another way to look at it is this: Is there any story other than stores being sold out? If Best Buy had ordered twice as many copies, kept up with demand and had still had stuff on the shelf, would anyone even notice? Would it be anymore than any other popular movie release that people forget about within days? Right now, All we have to go on is rumor and some anecdotes of some stores being sold out. We need more than that. Can you provide any actual sales numbers? Not stories, numbers. Based on the evidence presented, Occum's Razor point more to a someone under estimating demand and a couple stores selling out. Not some gran overarching effort tokeep a movie down. Other than Alita maybe being a sleeper hit on DVD, there isn't anything to justify the conclusion that you are pushing. If you have data, please post it and I'll be glad to revise my opinion. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 30, 2019 20:07:36 GMT
A quick check reveals that Captain Marvel is 5th and 3rd in sales on DVD and Blu-Ray respectively in the US market.
Alita doesn't appear in the top 100, although there are also no home release sales listed at all I can find with a quick search.
On both DVD and BR Captain Marvel is behind Aquaman with the top seller being Bohemian Rhapsody on both for 2019 sales.
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Post by ironhold on Jul 31, 2019 1:04:43 GMT
One of the people coming after me posted some screen caps to what they claimed were reports.
One screen cap noted that Alita was #2 to Captain Marvel, with the stipulation that Alita's numbers were only based on digital sales as digital sales started a week ahead of physical.
That's all I've seen so far about Alita.
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Post by the light works on Jul 31, 2019 7:07:03 GMT
Admittedly I don't follow movies much, but I had not heard of this Alita: Battle Angle move until this. I had to look it up to even see what it was. My interpritation is this movie is more focused on the anime/manga fan crowd and less on the general audience. As such these are also people that tend to like the memorabilia as well. So the special edition disc sets are going to be more popular per capita with fans of the movie than they would something that is more general audience that will be more content with a digital copy or just a basic set of discs. Given it is not as widely known as the MCU movies, it is easy to see how a buyer for Best buy could underestimate demand. The other thing missing here is actual sales numbers. Let's take another hypothetical: A store orders 2 case of Alita dics and 10 cases of Captain Marvel and let say there are 50 discs in each case. Alita sells 99 discs and there is one left of the shelf. CM sells 350, there are plenty left on the shelf as well as a couple cases in the back for when they run out. Which is the more successful movie? The one that clears out the shelves or the one that has extra stock in the back? There are just too many unknowns here to really judge what is going on. To put it simply, imagine a generic teen high school movie. "Captain Marvel" is the queen bee. It's the start of the school year, and so she's going to have this big debut to establish her status. It's such a big deal that "Dark Phoenix", her #1 lackey, has scaled herself back so as not to potentially upstage her queen. Enter spunky tomboy "Alita", who arrives first, makes a grand entrance, and steals the queen bee's thunder. Cue a certain queen bee getting furious and using her followers to destroy the upstart. Well, that's basically what's been going on. "Captain Marvel" was to be the big "girl power" action movie of the year, so much that there's evidence to the effect that Disney pressured Fox into reworking parts of "Dark Phoenix" so that the films weren't in direct competition despite their similar release dates. Instead, once the general public came to learn that "Alita" was scheduled to hit theaters a full month ahead of "Captain Marvel" the drama started. First it was hit pieces talking about how "problematic" it was that the film didn't have an all-Asian cast since it was an adaptation of a Japanese franchise, never mind the fact that the source material explicitly stated that it was taking place in a post-apocalyptic North America. Then it was pieces claiming that "Alita" under-performed and asking if it would affect "Captain Marvel". Then it was pieces blaming "Alita" for "Dark Phoenix" flopping. Now it's pieces claiming that "Alita" fans are all alt-right trolls. In fact, right now I've got people coming after me on Twitter because how dare I provide the link to Best Buy's website showing that when it comes to the retail-exclusive steel books "Alita" is already out of stock after just a few days while "Captain Marvel" is still in stock after a month. I'm being called all sorts of things right now and someone is actually trying to tell me that the website is essentially fake news. edit - It's my understanding that if "Alita" makes $30 - $32 million in home video sales then it'll clear the final hurdle needed for a sequel. I can only imagine the screaming that will happen once this takes place. a better comparison would the that Captain Marvel is the daughter of the rich sports booster, while alita is the (choose your subculture) girl. fact of the matter is Alita is a niche movie, and Captain Marvel is a mainstream movie. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 31, 2019 12:18:30 GMT
edit - It's my understanding that if "Alita" makes $30 - $32 million in home video sales then it'll clear the final hurdle needed for a sequel. I can only imagine the screaming that will happen once this takes place. Alita cost $170 million to make and has grossed some $404 million worldwide with an estimated net income of some $80 million. So it would have to be doing really well on home release to justify a sequel. Notes; Alita was made by FOX, so is now owned by Disney. To be honest I doubt Disney would green light a sequel based on the box office performance, nor could I fault them for that. Especially not at a time when Disney may be looking at some serious financial problems in the next few years.
It is ENTIRELY co-incidental I'm sure that the attacks on Alita, a film who's existence would reveal how much of the 'first female superhero' narrative pushed for Captain Marvel was lies, has been in line with the attacks made on those who said anything negative about Star Wars. It is also entirely co-incidental that such attacks are in turn in keeping with what has been happening with Star Drek, and both franchises have the common link in JJ Abram's Bad Robot production company which is owned by JJ and his wife who started the 'Me Too' Movement.
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Post by the light works on Jul 31, 2019 14:04:25 GMT
edit - It's my understanding that if "Alita" makes $30 - $32 million in home video sales then it'll clear the final hurdle needed for a sequel. I can only imagine the screaming that will happen once this takes place. Alita cost $170 million to make and has grossed some $404 million worldwide with an estimated net income of some $80 million. So it would have to be doing really well on home release to justify a sequel. Notes; Alita was made by FOX, so is now owned by Disney. To be honest I doubt Disney would green light a sequel based on the box office performance, nor could I fault them for that. Especially not at a time when Disney may be looking at some serious financial problems in the next few years.
It is ENTIRELY co-incidental I'm sure that the attacks on Alita, a film who's existence would reveal how much of the 'first female superhero' narrative pushed for Captain Marvel was lies, has been in line with the attacks made on those who said anything negative about Star Wars. It is also entirely co-incidental that such attacks are in turn in keeping with what has been happening with Star Drek, and both franchises have the common link in JJ Abram's Bad Robot production company which is owned by JJ and his wife who started the 'Me Too' Movement.
excuse me? first female superhero? I tried a search on that phrase and Captain marvel was not mentioned in the first page. nobody who made such a claim should have been taken seriously at all as C.M. was not first by any metric at all. except maybe first headliner in an MCU movie. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Jul 31, 2019 20:34:23 GMT
The narrative was that everyone should support Captain Marvel because it was a female lead action/superhero film and this was ground breaking.
Assuming of course that you ignore Wonder Woman, three Tomb Raider films, the entire Resident Evil franchise, the Underworld franchise, Salt, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Barbed Wire, Cat Woman and Electra. OK, so maybe you'd want to forget the last two. Those are just the ones that spring to mind.
So if you say anything remotely negative about CM, or refuse to kneel down and lick the boots of all involved in said film for making such a ground breaking work of genius that is naturally perfect in every way, you MUST be a sexist white man. Because nothing says 'inclusive' more that being sexist and racist. And nothing makes more business sense than attacking 60% of the movie going audience....
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Post by the light works on Jul 31, 2019 21:10:44 GMT
The narrative was that everyone should support Captain Marvel because it was a female lead action/superhero film and this was ground breaking. Assuming of course that you ignore Wonder Woman, three Tomb Raider films, the entire Resident Evil franchise, the Underworld franchise, Salt, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Barbed Wire, Cat Woman and Electra. OK, so maybe you'd want to forget the last two. Those are just the ones that spring to mind. So if you say anything remotely negative about CM, or refuse to kneel down and lick the boots of all involved in said film for making such a ground breaking work of genius that is naturally perfect in every way, you MUST be a sexist white man. Because nothing says 'inclusive' more that being sexist and racist. And nothing makes more business sense than attacking 60% of the movie going audience.... I must live a sheltered life, because I haven't heard any of that sort of thing, except from detractors of the movie. which granted, the sheltered life part is plausible, since my primary contact with movie reporting is IMDB and an occasional visit to Rotten Tomatoes. |
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Post by ironhold on May 19, 2020 21:03:40 GMT
 This is a photo I took today at the local Dollar Tree. These figures were $20 when they first appeared at retailers a year ago. Now there's 17 of them at the local Dollar Tree for $5 apiece and they're still not moving. |
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Post by the light works on May 20, 2020 14:05:29 GMT
View AttachmentThis is a photo I took today at the local Dollar Tree. These figures were $20 when they first appeared at retailers a year ago. Now there's 17 of them at the local Dollar Tree for $5 apiece and they're still not moving. so... obviously if a movie is aimed at a broader market than boys, the merchandising needs to be as well. or perhaps toy trends are changing, overall. www.playmr.com.au/blog/toys-and-gaming-trends-2020or perhaps it should be said that heck hath no petulance like a fandom scorned. |
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Post by ironhold on May 20, 2020 14:58:15 GMT
View AttachmentThis is a photo I took today at the local Dollar Tree. These figures were $20 when they first appeared at retailers a year ago. Now there's 17 of them at the local Dollar Tree for $5 apiece and they're still not moving. so... obviously if a movie is aimed at a broader market than boys, the merchandising needs to be as well. or perhaps toy trends are changing, overall. www.playmr.com.au/blog/toys-and-gaming-trends-2020or perhaps it should be said that heck hath no petulance like a fandom scorned. In the modern toy industry, it's pretty much presumed that if your product hasn't sold within 3 - 6 months of it hitting retail it's a dud. This is product that's still been out there after a year. The next stop from here is a wood chipper and the words "unsold and destroyed". |
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Post by the light works on May 20, 2020 15:15:32 GMT
so... obviously if a movie is aimed at a broader market than boys, the merchandising needs to be as well. or perhaps toy trends are changing, overall. www.playmr.com.au/blog/toys-and-gaming-trends-2020or perhaps it should be said that heck hath no petulance like a fandom scorned. In the modern toy industry, it's pretty much presumed that if your product hasn't sold within 3 - 6 months of it hitting retail it's a dud. This is product that's still been out there after a year. The next stop from here is a wood chipper and the words "unsold and destroyed". yep, so the old merchandising model is outdated. it's kind of like when the big three automakers still insisted on selling landyachts when the driving public wanted reasonably priced cars. |
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