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Post by c64 on Jan 30, 2013 12:15:31 GMT
Porsche engines and VW's are a common mix, Air cooled engines only! Not many VW cars had one! |
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Post by srracing on Jan 30, 2013 15:32:01 GMT
See my quote. It was directed to C64. HE said Audi 100 and Viper. Yes the Audi 100 was very underpowered (at least for that comparison.) |
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Post by srracing on Jan 30, 2013 15:35:46 GMT
I assume a typo? There were more a/c VW engines and cars built than any other car in history. The Porshe went to w/c. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 30, 2013 15:37:29 GMT
but that is a 914 motor; which is basically a slightly better version of the same 4 cylinder engine the beetle and transporter are built with. my brother's camper van had that transplant done, which boosted its freeway cruising speed up to a blistering 65 MPH. |
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Post by silverdragon on Jan 31, 2013 8:35:17 GMT
TLW, Slightly better?... I would slightly disagree... I have driven a Pre-transplant VW Bus, (late 90's..)and the same thing after transplant, the extra power is what the thing was missing in the first place?...
After transplant, there are some basic engine mods that can boost the power and speed even further.... but that is getting into the black arts a bit, something about Turbo uprating and other stuff.... maybe SR can enlighten us?...
VW and Porsche are the same company these days....
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Post by the light works on Jan 31, 2013 14:55:00 GMT
Porsche engines and VW's are a common mix, Air cooled engines only! Not many VW cars had one! right. only the Beetle, Transporter, whatever the open bed variant of the transporter is, Thing, and Karmann Ghia. |
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Post by the light works on Jan 31, 2013 14:59:39 GMT
TLW, Slightly better?... I would slightly disagree... I have driven a Pre-transplant VW Bus, (late 90's..)and the same thing after transplant, the extra power is what the thing was missing in the first place?... After transplant, there are some basic engine mods that can boost the power and speed even further.... but that is getting into the black arts a bit, something about Turbo uprating and other stuff.... maybe SR can enlighten us?... VW and Porsche are the same company these days.... always were the same company. but yes, I consider that a slight improvement. slightly larger displacement and slightly better breathing. it happened to make a fairly significant difference, taking it from badly underpowered to slightly underpowered (by US standards) but not the same class of upgrade as for example, the guys who take a Toyote (Hilux) and exchange the 2 liter 4 cylinder for a 350 CID (around 5½ liter) V-8. |
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Post by srracing on Feb 1, 2013 0:12:00 GMT
After transplant, there are some basic engine mods that can boost the power and speed even further.... but that is getting into the black arts a bit, something about Turbo uprating and other stuff.... maybe SR can enlighten us?... If you are talking about the Beetle A/C engine. There were some turbo kits for them. But the base Mg/Al cases couldn't handle much. (Not to mention the rest of the bottom end.) So most all are built on aftermarket cases, rods, cranks, etc. The vast majority being normally aspirated. They were hardly VW's anymore. We have built probably a hundred VW performance engines over the years. The most we have tempted on a stock case, rods, crank, etc is about 100 HP. Beyond that they will not last. Using aftermarket ones we have built 200 hp units. But they only contained about $20 in VW parts. The rest were aftermarket parts including the case/block. We are putting a 185hp one in a bug as we speak. Great 1/8 mile car, but I wouldn't want to go over 100mph in it.  The best application for a stock VW 1600 a/c is an industrial application. Pumps, generator, hydraulic drivers, etc. They will last many years at a constant RPM/load.  Not even close. They were always seperate companies and owners. (actually competing at times.) Porsche did use some VW parts or designed parts, but by the time the later 356's came out (1960's), The Porsche had no VW parts in it. Like almost all auto companies, at times certain parts were similar and interchangable, but they were independent. The only thing they shared was a pancake engine and Bosch electrics. (Another Prince of Darkness), like Lucas ;D |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 1, 2013 7:25:49 GMT
The Toyota Hilux is "legendary" now, certainly more so after Top Gear did a whole series on it, as indestructible....
Its a work-horse, a favourite of Farmers, 'cos Toyota's reliability was(until recent events) almost untouchable, and it just was there when ever you needed it...
I have seen more cars pulled from ditches with Hilux than Land-rovers...
I have also towed more with the Toyota land-cruiser variant than Land-Rovers.
Just WHY would you put such a huge engine in such a small frame?...
I am taking the British standpoint of "If it works dont fix it" and running with it here, so you should presume as normal this is humour directed at the idea, not argumentative criticism....;D
The Hilux was quite well powered for what it is?...
It was also designed to go everywhere at a steady pace, its as aerodynamic as a brick, it wasnt built to do the actual land-speed records, it was built to tow the pieces of those that tried home again?...
Is it JUST the American thing of "Whats the biggest power plant that will fit" or is there something else?... and why take out the perfectly reliable almost to a state of ignore it unless a warning light comes on engine and put such a tinker-toy that needs almost daily maintenance?...
from a later post
It seems US standards are over-power it as much as you can possibly get away with?...
We do that here, but those are exhibition cars....
From what I am reading, the over-power drag car in US is a daily driver?...
when you have done that, when you have taken the most reliable vehicle you had, and tinkered with it, what do you have to tow it home again now?...
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Post by c64 on Feb 1, 2013 13:02:35 GMT
I assume a typo? There were more a/c VW engines and cars built than any other car in history. The Porshe went to w/c. There were only a few different a/c models. Of course they made lots of them but nowadays, the "common VW" is the Golf (Rabbit in the US), not the beetle since they don't make the originals any more for a very long time now. Since way over 10 years, VW had stopped making any air cooled vehicles. |
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Post by c64 on Feb 1, 2013 13:08:15 GMT
but that is a 914 motor; which is basically a slightly better version of the same 4 cylinder engine the beetle and transporter are built with. my brother's camper van had that transplant done, which boosted its freeway cruising speed up to a blistering 65 MPH. This sounds more like the DIY kit where you install bigger pistons and wider cylinders along with some minor modifications without the need to remove the engine itself. This is all the original crankshaft and piston rods can tolerate. The Porsche engine mod makes the thing drive more like 75mph. |
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Post by c64 on Feb 1, 2013 13:15:56 GMT
I remember a beetle mod done for a Franciscan monk, the principal of a school. This man worked 19 hours per day doing everything he could for his students. When his beetle was fully worn, he sold it to a student who had restored and reinforced it with the help of other students and installed the finest Porsche engine possible and tuned it with great skill. Then he gave it back to the Monk as a gift. Top speed 192kph!!! And this monk sure made use of it.
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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2013 15:28:12 GMT
The Toyota Hilux is "legendary" now, certainly more so after Top Gear did a whole series on it, as indestructible.... Its a work-horse, a favourite of Farmers, 'cos Toyota's reliability was(until recent events) almost untouchable, and it just was there when ever you needed it... I have seen more cars pulled from ditches with Hilux than Land-rovers... I have also towed more with the Toyota land-cruiser variant than Land-Rovers. Just WHY would you put such a huge engine in such a small frame?... I am taking the British standpoint of "If it works dont fix it" and running with it here, so you should presume as normal this is humour directed at the idea, not argumentative criticism....;D The Hilux was quite well powered for what it is?... It was also designed to go everywhere at a steady pace, its as aerodynamic as a brick, it wasnt built to do the actual land-speed records, it was built to tow the pieces of those that tried home again?... Is it JUST the American thing of "Whats the biggest power plant that will fit" or is there something else?... and why take out the perfectly reliable almost to a state of ignore it unless a warning light comes on engine and put such a tinker-toy that needs almost daily maintenance?... from a later post It seems US standards are over-power it as much as you can possibly get away with?... We do that here, but those are exhibition cars.... From what I am reading, the over-power drag car in US is a daily driver?... when you have done that, when you have taken the most reliable vehicle you had, and tinkered with it, what do you have to tow it home again now?... well, yeah. if you have to slow down for upgrades, it doesn't have enough engine. and the same guys who are putting Chevy 350s in them are also putting 33 inch tires on them. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 1, 2013 15:30:07 GMT
but that is a 914 motor; which is basically a slightly better version of the same 4 cylinder engine the beetle and transporter are built with. my brother's camper van had that transplant done, which boosted its freeway cruising speed up to a blistering 65 MPH. This sounds more like the DIY kit where you install bigger pistons and wider cylinders along with some minor modifications without the need to remove the engine itself. This is all the original crankshaft and piston rods can tolerate. The Porsche engine mod makes the thing drive more like 75mph. never said it didn't top out at 75 MPH. but it cruised at 65. (otherwise it would start heating up) |
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Post by c64 on Feb 4, 2013 18:02:32 GMT
This sounds more like the DIY kit where you install bigger pistons and wider cylinders along with some minor modifications without the need to remove the engine itself. This is all the original crankshaft and piston rods can tolerate. The Porsche engine mod makes the thing drive more like 75mph. never said it didn't top out at 75 MPH. but it cruised at 65. (otherwise it would start heating up) The Porsche Engine comes with it's own cooling system which can handle the power, another point which sounds like that DIY kit. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 4, 2013 18:10:57 GMT
never said it didn't top out at 75 MPH. but it cruised at 65. (otherwise it would start heating up) The Porsche Engine comes with it's own cooling system which can handle the power, another point which sounds like that DIY kit. but the cooling system is designed to be installed in a porsche 914, not in a camper van. the 914 is a few grams lighter than a camper van, has a higher final gear ratio, and has somewhat more airflow over the engine. it is also more aerodynamic than a brick, further reducing the load on the engine. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 4, 2013 18:12:54 GMT
not all of us are fixated on making an engine do all it can without burning up, either. that is part of why Americans tend to put such huge engines in things.
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Post by c64 on Feb 5, 2013 17:38:19 GMT
The Porsche Engine comes with it's own cooling system which can handle the power, another point which sounds like that DIY kit. but the cooling system is designed to be installed in a porsche 914, not in a camper van. the 914 is a few grams lighter than a camper van, has a higher final gear ratio, and has somewhat more airflow over the engine. it is also more aerodynamic than a brick, further reducing the load on the engine. Actually, the camper van has better air intakes and outlets than the Porsche. If you install all the sheet metal to guide the air correctly, the Porsche engine won't overheat in the camper no matter what you do except pulling a heavy trailer uphill or something. |
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Post by c64 on Feb 5, 2013 17:45:49 GMT
not all of us are fixated on making an engine do all it can without burning up, either. that is part of why Americans tend to put such huge engines in things. Over here, the tradition used to be to allow the engine speed up the car as much as it can, the top speed causes the same drag as the engine can deliver as maximum power. Nowadays the engines are often a lot stronger than they used to be and require a limiter to prevent blowing up the engine. A Rover Mini is limited by the gear ratio but has no limit, you can blow up the engine driving too fast. My car is supposed to max out at 172kph according to its documents, but in spring, when the air has the correct humidity and temperature, they all can reach 180kph easily. And some engines have the good tolerances like my car. I can reach 180kph easily any time and can reach 200kph in cold weather due to some "minor" modifications. The speed record I managed to drive was 225kph after driving almost an hour full throttle. I didn't notice since the speedometer starts to stick above 170kph and my first clue was the RPM limiter shutting down the engine at 6500 RPM and I know my car drives 100kph @3000 RPM and the GPS unit was also recording 224kph. |
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Post by the light works on Feb 5, 2013 18:19:17 GMT
but the cooling system is designed to be installed in a porsche 914, not in a camper van. the 914 is a few grams lighter than a camper van, has a higher final gear ratio, and has somewhat more airflow over the engine. it is also more aerodynamic than a brick, further reducing the load on the engine. Actually, the camper van has better air intakes and outlets than the Porsche. If you install all the sheet metal to guide the air correctly, the Porsche engine won't overheat in the camper no matter what you do except pulling a heavy trailer uphill or something. If my brother hadn't sold it 15 years ago, I would tell it that it is not doing it correctly. |
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Not even close. They were always seperate companies and owners. (actually competing at times.) Porsche did use some VW parts or designed parts, but by the time the later 356's came out (1960's), The Porsche had no VW parts in it. Like almost all auto companies, at times certain parts were similar and interchangable, but they were independent.