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Post by ironhold on Jan 29, 2013 1:37:38 GMT
This one comes from an issue of the manga series Golgo 13.
Set-up:
Duke Togo is being pursued by members of a South African paramilitary organization; he's on the run after having infiltrated their ranks, and they want him back before he can alert the authorities.
He's anticipated the route that the pursuers will take, and so has scouted out a rocky outcropping that he can use as a sniper's nest. With his trusty M-16 in hand (it has a custom scope, a custom grip, and a custom stock, but IIRC still fires a standard 7.62mm round), he awaits his prey.
When the first vehicle in the convoy shows up, he shoots the driver, bringing said vehicle to an abrupt halt.
Realizing that it's an ambush, the paramilitary troopers rush out of their vehicles and take up a defensive position in the rocks below.
One trooper hefts a rocket launcher (doesn't say which make or model, so presume generic), the logic being that he can use the rocket to blast the outcropping.
Togo sights down the tube of the launcher and fires just as the trooper pulls the trigger. The bullet hits the rocket while it's still inside of the tube, causing the weapon to explode. Suffice to say that the trooper is killed instantly.
I just read the chapter where this takes place, and figured that it'd be a middle ground between the "pistol vs. RPG" and "sniper rifle vs. tank" myths that kept getting asked on the old boards.
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Post by rory on Jan 29, 2013 14:15:13 GMT
They did this with RPG 7. These launchers have a minimum arming distance so they won't detonate near the launcher. After the arming distance a bullet will detonate the RPG.
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Post by Cybermortis on Jan 29, 2013 16:54:15 GMT
As rory said, RPG's have a minimum arming distance - principally so that users don't kill themselves if they drop or fumble the warheads. Depending on the model this distance seems to be 5-7 metres.
That said the early RPG type weapons - the Bazooka being one of them - seem to have lacked this feature. In the case of WW2 Bazooka's they had a simple pin that was pulled out of the warhead just before it was fired. There is a documented case (specifically in the book Band of Brothers by Steven Ambrose) where the loader helpfully pulled the pins out of three warheads before they were loaded into the tube. Since this meant that the warheads would have detonated if dropped, the two soldiers had to spend a stressful few minutes scrabbling in the dirt looking for the pins so they could be put back prior to the dash back to the American lines. They were at the time standing in the middle of a field being shot at by German troops, since if you are going to screw up you might as well do so in style.
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Post by User Unavailable on Feb 6, 2013 6:11:31 GMT
The M16 series rifle fires a 5.56 mm (.223caliber), not a 7.62 mm (.30 caliber). Just for future reference.
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Post by ironhold on Feb 6, 2013 13:57:13 GMT
I'd have to dig the book out, but I think the author said it was a 7.
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Post by User Unavailable on Feb 6, 2013 17:43:06 GMT
There are several rifles designed by Eugene Stoner or based on Stoner designs, that are chambered in 7.62 and "look" like an oversized M16, but they are not M16s.
Google AR10, SR25, MK11 Mod 0 and M110 SASS.
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 14, 2013 7:26:50 GMT
Take any rocket, OUT of the launcher...
What exactly does it contain?... what is the explosive?...
If you put a pound of that on a firing range and started taking pot shots.... would it explode....
Are there different types?...
As in, does one type contain black powder, another contain C4 (When in doubt... C4) etc?...
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 14, 2013 16:53:56 GMT
Take any rocket, OUT of the launcher... What exactly does it contain?... what is the explosive?... If you put a pound of that on a firing range and started taking pot shots.... would it explode.... Are there different types?... As in, does one type contain black powder, another contain C4 (When in doubt... C4) etc?... I think the standard high explosive used is Composition B, which like C-4 needs a detonator to be ignited. Setting the detonator off is a different matter, but modern RPG's have safety devices that prevent the detonator from being activated until the warhead has travelled some distance from the launcher - As I noted earlier early RPG's lacked this safety feature, instead simply securing the warhead with a pin. This was dangerous as if the warhead was dropped once the pin was removed it could detonate. Beyond all this, this idea is little more than an up-scaled version of the RED RPG myth they have already tested. |
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Post by silverdragon on Feb 25, 2013 9:12:24 GMT
So what we have in effect is a shock triggered bomb that is fired by Rocket.
The actual round that perhaps was one where the "safety pin" had been removed could be then detonated inside the launcher by the shock of being shot at....
I therefore [on the evidence suggested] say Plausible?....
Worth the test?....
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Post by Cybermortis on Feb 25, 2013 16:30:07 GMT
I don't think so, this is exactly the same as the RED RPG myth they have already tested.
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Post by c64 on Feb 25, 2013 20:50:20 GMT
The "Panzerfaust" is different. I am not very familliar with the WW2 version, but all later models are not really sensitive to impacts at all. They lack the priming charge. They explode when the impact is hard enough you need to hit steel with the warhead travelling at least 200m/s! The original WW2 version doesn't have one either but I am unsure about the sensitivity of the HE inside.
When you shoot a Panzerfaust at a bunker, building or an unarmoured vehicle, all you get is a fist sized hole in the wall.
The current Panzerfaust-3 is different. It has two major advantages. You can launch it out of a porta potty without roasting yourself and it has a spike you can extend which has some kind of primer charge. When the spike is out, the head explodes on a more lighter impact exploding inside the building or vehicle.
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Post by oscardeuce on Apr 1, 2013 4:43:04 GMT
The M-16/M-4 AR-15 series are all 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington. They are similar rounds but not interchangeable. 5.56 NATO has higher pressures and a different throat. Shooting 5.56 NATO in a gun chambered for .223 Remington may go kaboom. On the other hand, a gun chambered for 5.56 will eat .223 Remington.
As stated there are AR-15 look alikes out there in 7.62 mm, they have a different designation.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 5, 2013 21:13:58 GMT
As rory said, RPG's have a minimum arming distance - principally so that users don't kill themselves if they drop or fumble the warheads. Depending on the model this distance seems to be 5-7 metres. That said the early RPG type weapons - the Bazooka being one of them - seem to have lacked this feature. In the case of WW2 Bazooka's they had a simple pin that was pulled out of the warhead just before it was fired. There is a documented case (specifically in the book Band of Brothers by Steven Ambrose) where the loader helpfully pulled the pins out of three warheads before they were loaded into the tube. Since this meant that the warheads would have detonated if dropped, the two soldiers had to spend a stressful few minutes scrabbling in the dirt looking for the pins so they could be put back prior to the dash back to the American lines. They were at the time standing in the middle of a field being shot at by German troops, since if you are going to screw up you might as well do so in style. The 'opponent' being a South African militia, I wouldn't put it past them to have really old hardware. You see that a lot in 3rd world countries. Whether this is worth testing is a completely different matter though. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Apr 5, 2013 21:53:13 GMT
South Africa isn't a third world country.
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Post by OziRiS on Apr 6, 2013 20:03:01 GMT
Misunderstanding.
I didn't mean that the country called 'South Africa' was a 3rd world country. I enterpreted the term "South African militia" as meaning a militia from a country in the southern part of the continent of Africa.
Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Zambia are all in that neighborhood and I seem to remember them listed as 3rd world countries according to the UN Human Development Index.
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Post by Cybermortis on Apr 6, 2013 21:09:23 GMT
Misunderstanding. I didn't mean that the country called 'South Africa' was a 3rd world country. I enterpreted the term "South African militia" as meaning a militia from a country in the southern part of the continent of Africa. Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Zambia are all in that neighborhood and I seem to remember them listed as 3rd world countries according to the UN Human Development Index. The OP noted it was a South African militia. South Africa did use the Bazooka, and more recently the RPG-7. Since the OP said "hit the rocket in the tube" we are probably talking about a Bazooka - which would be consistent with what a militia in the area is likely to have access to. As the warhead of a Bazooka has been noted as being able to be detonated if dropped once the safety pin has been removed. This further adds to the notion that we are talking about the Bazooka, and makes the idea plausible. |
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Post by maxman on Aug 15, 2013 11:23:22 GMT
Wouldn't it be pretty much the same as the RED myth of shooting an RPG-7 with a .357?
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Post by the light works on Aug 15, 2013 14:15:02 GMT
Wouldn't it be pretty much the same as the RED myth of shooting an RPG-7 with a .357? very much so - the twist would be if you could shoot down the tube on a bazooka and strike the primer - and whether a bullet strike on an activated primer would trigger it or simply destroy it. |
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Post by ironhold on Aug 15, 2013 15:37:19 GMT
If it may help -
The story arc was set in Post-Apartheid South Africa, taking place during Nelson Mandela's time in charge of the government.
Intelligence information indicated that at least one militia* was forming to overthrow the new government, but because there was reason to suspect that a high-level military officer was involved in the matter Mandela (who is depicted in person, rather than an expy in his place) hired Togo to investigate; those of East Asian heritage (such as Togo, who is presumably Japanese) were considered "honorary whites" under the Apartheid system, and so even though he's an outsider it would make sense for him to want to presumably join such a militia since he would still potentially stand to profit if Apartheid returned.
In that sense, we're looking at weapons that were either in use by the government of South Africa during the 1980s / 1990s or would have been readily available on the region's black market during that time.
*It's later revealed that in addition to an all-white militia, there was also an all-African militia. Although the two had different goals, they agreed to put aside their differences long enough to topple the government. When Togo found this out, he slipped off on his own to ambush one of their patrols, thereby giving the appearance of the all-white group turning on the all-African group and disrupting the alliance.
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 15, 2013 16:17:46 GMT
The RPG 7 and Bazooka, as I said above.
In terms of small arms a mercenary who is hired by the Government would probably have access to any weapon they wanted and which was commercially available.
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