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Post by the light works on Nov 24, 2013 1:27:59 GMT
there's an old expression regarding that sort of thing: "choose your battles" Which implies that you must choose some battles and not chicken out of all of them. Semantically, any attempt at defending a choice or opinion counts as a battle. ergo, the choice to chicken out constitutes a battle. |
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Post by silverdragon on Nov 24, 2013 10:24:21 GMT
I see sense in the argument from those inside the rest room "Where has the waste basket gone".... If anyone here has experienced a Dyson Air-Blade, you KNOW the future of hand dryers. gadgets.boingboing.net/filesroot/dyson-airblade-hand-dryer-thumb-200x266.jpg This thing blasts high volume air in a wide "blade" (Just under that yellow line you can see, its on both sides of the gap you put your hands in) that dries your hand literally on the first or second "pass"... Yes powerful, but, as you use it for less time, more economical. And bloody impressive. If germophobes have problems with any particular door handle, may I ask, what do they do when they get to the SECOND door?... If someone with dirty hands opened the restroom door without washing, did they magically manage to clean their hands and sanitise them before they managed to get to the next door?... So all you forklifting about acting out with towels to open that restroom door just vanished in a puff of your own stupidity when you get to the NEXT door and dont do exactly the same. As I witness pointed out to one of the terminally stupid by someone who is wiser than me.... |
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Post by the light works on Nov 24, 2013 15:33:33 GMT
and the punch line I keep remembering is "in the (name your favorite branch of service/your favorite educational facility) they taught us not to p*** on our hands"
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 15, 2013 10:49:03 GMT
The young do not always do as they are told.
And then you have the dyed-in-the-wool DIRTY (BEEEEEEEEP) who just doesnt care about hygiene.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 19, 2013 3:08:50 GMT
& then you have got those who go to extremes  when it comes to keeping 'clean'. At my local shopping center we have a germ-a-phobic/paranoid nutter lady who INSIST on the following routine whenever she uses the public loo! Enter Loo Wash down toilet seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away (she's such a germ-a-phoebe she wears rubber/latex glove whenever she leaves her house) Wash hands Put on new pair of rubber gloves Put paper seat guard or if or they've run out several layers of toilet paper down on seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Use toilet Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Open door & leave. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 26, 2013 16:26:41 GMT
& then you have got those who go to extremes when it comes to keeping 'clean'. At my local shopping center we have a germ-a-phobic/paranoid nutter lady who INSIST on the following routine whenever she uses the public loo! Enter Loo Wash down toilet seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away (she's such a germ-a-phoebe she wears rubber/latex glove whenever she leaves her house) Wash hands Put on new pair of rubber gloves Put paper seat guard or if or they've run out several layers of toilet paper down on seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Use toilet Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Open door & leave. her hands must be in terrible condition. it leaves me wondering if her home routine is the same, or if she skips the a**-gasket. |
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 0:38:32 GMT
& then you have got those who go to extremes when it comes to keeping 'clean'. At my local shopping center we have a germ-a-phobic/paranoid nutter lady who INSIST on the following routine whenever she uses the public loo! Enter Loo Wash down toilet seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away (she's such a germ-a-phoebe she wears rubber/latex glove whenever she leaves her house) Wash hands Put on new pair of rubber gloves Put paper seat guard or if or they've run out several layers of toilet paper down on seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Use toilet Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Open door & leave. I know it's easy to just call her a nut and I'm sure you're not alone in doing it, but have you ever tried to put yourself in her place? Imagine how awful it must be to be so afraid of something that you have to go through souch an elaborate routine to do something as mundane as go to the bathroom. I'd be willing to bet that if she could, she'd trade places with you or me in a heartbeat. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and hers is being wasted completely on worrying so much about something that seems completely rediculous to the rest of us that it cripples her. Make no mistake about it. That's not just excessive cleanliness or a question of her being snobby about the rest of us being slobs. That's full blown OCD and if it hasn't already, it will ruin her life. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 0:52:29 GMT
& then you have got those who go to extremes when it comes to keeping 'clean'. At my local shopping center we have a germ-a-phobic/paranoid nutter lady who INSIST on the following routine whenever she uses the public loo! Enter Loo Wash down toilet seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away (she's such a germ-a-phoebe she wears rubber/latex glove whenever she leaves her house) Wash hands Put on new pair of rubber gloves Put paper seat guard or if or they've run out several layers of toilet paper down on seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Use toilet Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Open door & leave. I know it's easy to just call her a nut and I'm sure you're not alone in doing it, but have you ever tried to put yourself in her place? Imagine how awful it must be to be so afraid of something that you have to go through souch an elaborate routine to do something as mundane as go to the bathroom. I'd be willing to bet that if she could, she'd trade places with you or me in a heartbeat. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and hers is being wasted completely on worrying so much about something that seems completely rediculous to the rest of us that it cripples her. Make no mistake about it. That's not just excessive cleanliness or a question of her being snobby about the rest of us being slobs. That's full blown OCD and if it hasn't already, it will ruin her life. I wouldn't go so far as to say full-blown. full blown is when she has to repeat the ritual until she does it JUST SO, before she can go to the bathroom. |
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 1:23:44 GMT
I know it's easy to just call her a nut and I'm sure you're not alone in doing it, but have you ever tried to put yourself in her place? Imagine how awful it must be to be so afraid of something that you have to go through souch an elaborate routine to do something as mundane as go to the bathroom. I'd be willing to bet that if she could, she'd trade places with you or me in a heartbeat. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and hers is being wasted completely on worrying so much about something that seems completely rediculous to the rest of us that it cripples her. Make no mistake about it. That's not just excessive cleanliness or a question of her being snobby about the rest of us being slobs. That's full blown OCD and if it hasn't already, it will ruin her life. I wouldn't go so far as to say full-blown. full blown is when she has to repeat the ritual until she does it JUST SO, before she can go to the bathroom. And there's no chance she's just repeated it so many times already that it's always "just so"? |
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Post by the light works on Dec 27, 2013 4:23:18 GMT
I wouldn't go so far as to say full-blown. full blown is when she has to repeat the ritual until she does it JUST SO, before she can go to the bathroom. And there's no chance she's just repeated it so many times already that it's always "just so"? not with full blown OCD. the degree of variance that makes it an incorrect procedure is so slim, it is impossible to get it right every time. that is why people with severe OCD have so many repetitive actions. I forget now whether it is the supplementary information with As Good As It Gets; or with the Howard Hughes movie; The Aviator, that went over that. |
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 27, 2013 23:06:53 GMT
And there's no chance she's just repeated it so many times already that it's always "just so"? not with full blown OCD. the degree of variance that makes it an incorrect procedure is so slim, it is impossible to get it right every time. that is why people with severe OCD have so many repetitive actions. I forget now whether it is the supplementary information with As Good As It Gets; or with the Howard Hughes movie; The Aviator, that went over that. Either way, my point was that if she could do anything to dampen this compulsion that's obviously taken over a great deal of her life, I'm pretty certain she would. Most OCD sufferers - officially full-blown or not - probably would. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 28, 2013 0:27:37 GMT
At this point I'm not seeing a 'TV friendly' myth, or one that would have a lot of legs - that is potential for expansion. The sneezing myth they did they were about to make viewer friendly by having a party (well, two parties), and they also tested the myth that a toilet seat was cleaner than...something. I forget the details because it was rather dull, something they seem to have realised halfway through filming judging from the way they rushed through the results at the end.
The clean toilet myth is one reason I suspect they might be very wary of doing this kind of episode, since it isn't really very visual either in the testing or in showing the results.
There *may* be potential here, but if so it would require serious rethinking as to how and what they would be testing.
For the record, as is usually the case I'm not knocking this as a stupid idea just one that as it stands isn't really a 'TV friendly' idea. Or if you like I'm pretending to be one of the producers and looking at it from their prospective.
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 28, 2013 1:20:34 GMT
At this point I'm not seeing a 'TV friendly' myth, or one that would have a lot of legs - that is potential for expansion. The sneezing myth they did they were about to make viewer friendly by having a party (well, two parties), and they also tested the myth that a toilet seat was cleaner than...something. I forget the details because it was rather dull, something they seem to have realised halfway through filming judging from the way they rushed through the results at the end. The clean toilet myth is one reason I suspect they might be very wary of doing this kind of episode, since it isn't really very visual either in the testing or in showing the results. There *may* be potential here, but if so it would require serious rethinking as to how and what they would be testing. For the record, as is usually the case I'm not knocking this as a stupid idea just one that as it stands isn't really a 'TV friendly' idea. Or if you like I'm pretending to be one of the producers and looking at it from their prospective. Point taken. Will try to rethink this. Although I must say I found the sneezing/germ spreading episode interesting. Disturbing, but still interesting. I loved the way they made it visual with the drip from Adam's nose that fluoresced under UV light, exposing just how much you spread that gunk around if you're not careful. I believe that was a pretty popular episode. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 28, 2013 1:51:15 GMT
Take the sneezing episode as a guide as to how such episodes need to work on the show, and the clean toilet myth as an example as to how not to do a germ myth.
One thing to keep in mind though. The florescent bacteria they have used on the show is of course going to get killed by anything that kills other bacteria. However the chemicals that make the bacteria fluoresce will still be there regardless of if the bacteria is living or not. Meaning that even if you kill the bacteria the surface it was on is still going to glow under a UV light - giving you a false positive. So while you can use that bacteria to show how germs can spread from one surface to another, you could not use it to show what will kill bacteria.
If you could think of a viable way to show such things on the show I'm sure they'd love you for it - even if they never use that technique or any related ideas.
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2013 2:12:27 GMT
not with full blown OCD. the degree of variance that makes it an incorrect procedure is so slim, it is impossible to get it right every time. that is why people with severe OCD have so many repetitive actions. I forget now whether it is the supplementary information with As Good As It Gets; or with the Howard Hughes movie; The Aviator, that went over that. Either way, my point was that if she could do anything to dampen this compulsion that's obviously taken over a great deal of her life, I'm pretty certain she would. Most OCD sufferers - officially full-blown or not - probably would. this is true - I was just pointing out that it gets worse. |
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 28, 2013 7:24:52 GMT
& then you have got those who go to extremes when it comes to keeping 'clean'. At my local shopping center we have a germ-a-phobic/paranoid nutter lady who INSIST on the following routine whenever she uses the public loo! Enter Loo Wash down toilet seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away (she's such a germ-a-phoebe she wears rubber/latex glove whenever she leaves her house) Wash hands Put on new pair of rubber gloves Put paper seat guard or if or they've run out several layers of toilet paper down on seat Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Use toilet Take off rubber gloves & throw them away Wash hands again Put on new pair of rubber gloves Open door & leave. I know it's easy to just call her a nut and I'm sure you're not alone in doing it, but have you ever tried to put yourself in her place? Imagine how awful it must be to be so afraid of something that you have to go through souch an elaborate routine to do something as mundane as go to the bathroom. I'd be willing to bet that if she could, she'd trade places with you or me in a heartbeat. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and hers is being wasted completely on worrying so much about something that seems completely rediculous to the rest of us that it cripples her. Make no mistake about it. That's not just excessive cleanliness or a question of her being snobby about the rest of us being slobs. That's full blown OCD and if it hasn't already, it will ruin her life. No she is a nutter Oziris. She talks to herself in public (Her arguments with herself are sometimes a little funny) but refuses to take any meds or get help insisting she's perfectly 'normal'. Because of the laws here she can't be forced to get help unless she does something that's dangerous/harmful to herself or others. For now she's just the amusing weird woman who goes to the shops every Tuesday, washes her hands repeatedly in the loo's. & talks to the lamp post outside the post office three time a week for the better part of an hour - rain or shine. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 28, 2013 8:39:32 GMT
I know it's easy to just call her a nut and I'm sure you're not alone in doing it, but have you ever tried to put yourself in her place? Imagine how awful it must be to be so afraid of something that you have to go through souch an elaborate routine to do something as mundane as go to the bathroom. I'd be willing to bet that if she could, she'd trade places with you or me in a heartbeat. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and hers is being wasted completely on worrying so much about something that seems completely rediculous to the rest of us that it cripples her. Make no mistake about it. That's not just excessive cleanliness or a question of her being snobby about the rest of us being slobs. That's full blown OCD and if it hasn't already, it will ruin her life. No she is a nutter Oziris. She talks to herself in public (Her arguments with herself are sometimes a little funny) but refuses to take any meds or get help insisting she's perfectly 'normal'. Because of the laws here she can't be forced to get help unless she does something that's dangerous/harmful to herself or others. For now she's just the amusing weird woman who goes to the shops every Tuesday, washes her hands repeatedly in the loo's. & talks to the lamp post outside the post office three time a week for the better part of an hour - rain or shine. well, insisting that you are normal IS a symptom of many kinds of insanity... |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 28, 2013 9:11:39 GMT
Seriously?...
And I has experience of working with autistic kids.
I can "Understand" the problems, I can know how to communicate in a way that autistic people will understand, but put myself in their place?....
And insanity is not always Autistic (Vice Versa there) so understanding autism is perhaps not the best place to stand on this, but its the nearest 'I' can get....
This is why people like that are suppose to take medication.(As stated by Lex?..)
To help them fit in OUR world.
No, that isnt saying that all autistic people are in need of meds... most points on the autistic spectrum can not be treated by Meds anyway, but thats beside the point.
When your actions are that extreme, you need help....?....
Not knowing that standing talking to a lamp post for an hour is particularly dangerous.
You will attract the wrong kind of people doing that.
No they wouldnt.
Not without help.
I have seen the progress made in OCD understanding, and part of the research goes a long way into why they need help to stop the OCD...
In a quick explanation, if they could quit, they would, and because they think its "Normal", they cant quit anyway, so they need help desperately to quit, because its something they can not do without help....
And if that help requires they take meds, they must take the meds.
Taking the meds is the first part of them signalling they are ready for help.....
For them, "Normal" is what they are doing, and they think that we the other people are all doing it wrong anyway.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 28, 2013 10:32:12 GMT
Seriously?... And I has experience of working with autistic kids. I can "Understand" the problems, I can know how to communicate in a way that autistic people will understand, but put myself in their place?.... And insanity is not always Autistic (Vice Versa there) so understanding autism is perhaps not the best place to stand on this, but its the nearest 'I' can get.... This is why people like that are suppose to take medication.(As stated by Lex?..) To help them fit in OUR world. No, that isnt saying that all autistic people are in need of meds... most points on the autistic spectrum can not be treated by Meds anyway, but thats beside the point. When your actions are that extreme, you need help....?.... Not knowing that standing talking to a lamp post for an hour is particularly dangerous. You will attract the wrong kind of people doing that. No they wouldnt. Not without help. I have seen the progress made in OCD understanding, and part of the research goes a long way into why they need help to stop the OCD... In a quick explanation, if they could quit, they would, and because they think its "Normal", they cant quit anyway, so they need help desperately to quit, because its something they can not do without help.... And if that help requires they take meds, they must take the meds. Taking the meds is the first part of them signalling they are ready for help..... For them, "Normal" is what they are doing, and they think that we the other people are all doing it wrong anyway. Indeed from what I’ve been able to gather many people have tried helping her/tried to get her the help she needs, but she refuses them/it. & because she hasn’t done anything ‘dangerous’ she cannot be forced to seek help. Her family have even tried to have her put under their ‘care’ but, it all falls into that grey area of the law about a person’s right to ‘self-expression’. Basically what it all boils down to is that until she huts someone else or herself she can’t be helped unless she decides she wants it. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 28, 2013 11:39:06 GMT
Its a very grey area... indeed....
In the uk, it has to be proven that its an illness.
After that, refusal to take meds has to be proven that those meds help.
Refusal to self medicate then has to be proven that they actually NEED those meds.
Then there has to be some kind of proof that they can not function without those meds... and some form of proof that how they do function is, and this is the grey bit, that how they are functioning is a danger?....
Danger to whom.
Other people?... if its just they offend peoples sensibilities, thats not enough.
Danger to themselves?...
If they have a level of care that watches over them, then again "Grey area"....
If that family "care" for them, then they are receiving care, and do not need any more.
If that family stop caring for them, they need care, some will be provided.
Sometimes that family need to stop caring and ask for help....
If the help they get, from the medical world, decide they NEED the medication, now the grey starts to get defined....
If they refuse to self medicate, and the care providers state that they cannot provide care unless the medication IS taken, then they get to start to get to the area when they can ask for forced medication....
And taken into care.
The decisions are being made there on the last option choice...
As in, they will endlessly try to find other options.
Then you get the "Hit squad".....
If you have a relative in your home that you need to get taken into care, doesnt matter how much they NEED to be taken into care, the hit squad arrive, who are trained psychologists...
Their target is YOU, the care provider.
They will target the family and "Persuade" them that the family will provide care.....
That is their job.
To dissociate the services from taking care of the patient.
They will approach each member of family in turn and try and persuade them that it is their duty to provide care for the patient....
And their tactics are not nice.
Emotional Blackmail, ....
Can you imagine the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition being real life?....
Comfy Chair, Cushions, Tea and sympathy, promise of extra help, promises of the best care they can provide, as long as you name yourself the primary care provider?....
{person of questionable parentage}S....[edit.... the real word there<<<< has been altered by the board software... I am sure you can work it out...]
Trouble is, they work. And they are quite effective at stopping people who NEED care being taken into care.
"Care in the community"....
You just know when some nut-job that shouldnt be out by themselves is wandering around in the community, its because one of these hit-squads has done a number on one of the relatives.....
I hate them with a passion, because of the damage they do.
Maybe I have said more than I should.
I dont care.
It needs to be said.....
And no, not even I am strong enough to argue with them face to face.
As an example though, I have when faced with a member of the family who needed care, demanded that they leave, and send in the real people who take that person into care.
That elderly relative was taken into care and diagnosed with severe Altzimers shortly afterwards.
Before that, those hit squad tried to say it was early dementia that could be dealt with at home.....
By the elderly lady who was just the sister (My great aunt) who had mobility problems, and was actually partly dependant on her sister for her mobility....
Now BOTH sisters are getting the real help that they need.
And the sister with mobility problems received her mobility scooter almost within the week... something she had been trying to get for YEARS before her sister was taken ill.
And yes, the family offered to provide an electric scooter for my Aunt, but, FIERCELY independent, knowing her rights, she was determined that she would get her scooter from the heath services that she had spent a life time paying into... "Its time they paid me back".......
If we had provided, that health service would have turned to the family every time they needed something to be paid for for her... like the ramp to the front door?....
Sometimes in these cases, you have to fight for your rights.
And mostly in those cases, you are ill, and not able to fight.
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when it comes to keeping 'clean'. At my local shopping center we have a germ-a-phobic/paranoid nutter lady who INSIST on the following routine whenever she uses the public loo!