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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 10, 2013 18:49:43 GMT
The story goes that during World War Two Australian pilots stationed in the Pacific decided that what would make living in the hot climate tolerable was a little ice cream, so they decided to make some of their own.
They filled a spare drop tank with condensed milk, sugar and coco power. Attached it to a fighter and then the pilot took off and flew around at high altitude for a few minutes before coming back to base and landing, where the personal now had a nice tank of ice cream they could share.
There is a similar story about pilots (usually Australian, again) who strapped cans of beer or even bottles of wine under the wings and took off for a short flight so they could drink a cool beverage after landing.
From what I can recall from the MBFC thread, there are no 'official' documents about this - it all seems to be stories being recounted after the war, which is understandable as this would probably classify as unreasonable use of military equipment*. Nor do I recall anything specific about how this was meant to work, as in I'm not clear if they mixed all the ingredients together on the ground or if they rigged up something to stir the contents while the aircraft was in flight.
(*Although arguably threatening to drop Fosters Larger on the Japanese would be a great deterrent...)
This idea was originally posted on the MBFC years ago, but I only remembered it about ten minutes ago. I'm wondering if anyone remembers that thread, or can provide any additional information in this or related myths?
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Post by the light works on Aug 10, 2013 20:11:56 GMT
The story goes that during World War Two Australian pilots stationed in the Pacific decided that what would make living in the hot climate tolerable was a little ice cream, so they decided to make some of their own. They filled a spare drop tank with condensed milk, sugar and coco power. Attached it to a fighter and then the pilot took off and flew around at high altitude for a few minutes before coming back to base and landing, where the personal now had a nice tank of ice cream they could share. There is a similar story about pilots (usually Australian, again) who strapped cans of beer or even bottles of wine under the wings and took off for a short flight so they could drink a cool beverage after landing. From what I can recall from the MBFC thread, there are no 'official' documents about this - it all seems to be stories being recounted after the war, which is understandable as this would probably classify as unreasonable use of military equipment*. Nor do I recall anything specific about how this was meant to work, as in I'm not clear if they mixed all the ingredients together on the ground or if they rigged up something to stir the contents while the aircraft was in flight. (*Although arguably threatening to drop Fosters Larger on the Japanese would be a great deterrent...) This idea was originally posted on the MBFC years ago, but I only remembered it about ten minutes ago. I'm wondering if anyone remembers that thread, or can provide any additional information in this or related myths? I think the ice cream might be a bit of a stretch - not because of the temperature, but because of the fact that it would have to be stirred to get the texture. I think carrying a couple packages of beverage in the plane on a mission so you can crack open a cold one when you get back to base is much more plausible. - though I would think for the most part they would put them INSIDE the plane to make it less obvious what they were doing. (what good is it to chill your beer if the base commander confiscates half of it?) It is like the Boy Scout rule that when chilling beer in the stream you put a rock over it so the scoutmaster doesn't find it and steal it. "Fosters, it's Australian for Coors" |
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Post by User Unavailable on Aug 10, 2013 23:25:54 GMT
I've made with F4U CorsairI've Cream made in P-38 (though I do question the Stainless Steel Ammo Case! Mentioned in the story) Ice cream made in the tail gunners position on a bomberThe above links seem to add credibility to the idea, but are all "hearsay", without any supporting facts, other than the one "story from Grandpa". It would be nice to dig up some actual, further memoirs of pilots or ground crew to substantiate the "myth". Though, having made homemade ice cream, the version with the F4U Corsair with the wind driven stirring apparatus seems most believable. The other ways just seem to me would make a frozen treat, that while tasty would not really be "ice cream". Though to troops in a war zone, the difference would be negligible. |
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Post by OziRiS on Aug 11, 2013 0:03:33 GMT
I have nothing to add to this discussion right now, except to say that I hope this is picked up by someone at the show. This is so CLASSIC MythBusters that it should definitely be tested!  |
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Post by the light works on Aug 11, 2013 1:08:46 GMT
It is a good follow up for "Blue Ice"
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Post by User Unavailable on Aug 11, 2013 5:24:53 GMT
They could even possibly use authentic aircraft for the testing, by contacting such organizations as The Commemorative Air Force. (formerly known as the Confederate Air Force) Also, the CAF has many contacts with surviving WWII pilots, crew and ground crew who may be able to she'd some light on the "myth". More info on the CAF |
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 11, 2013 17:17:37 GMT
The P-38 was armed with both a 20mm cannon and .50 calibre machine guns. Both types of ammunition were shipped in reusable steel boxes by 1943 - and what might be significant about these boxes is that they were designed to be watertight.
I'm wondering if the ground crew took an old .50 cal ammunition box, cleaned the inside, filled it with their 'yet to be iced-cream' and then put it into the ammunition slot for one of the guns.
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Post by ironhold on Aug 11, 2013 21:46:13 GMT
Every version of this story I've heard involved the pilot making a number of high-speed maneuvers in order to try and replicate the "mixing" action that one would get from a proper mixer.
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Post by the light works on Aug 11, 2013 22:14:43 GMT
Every version of this story I've heard involved the pilot making a number of high-speed maneuvers in order to try and replicate the "mixing" action that one would get from a proper mixer. a "proper mixer" has a component that scrapes the partially frozen mixture off the sides of the container - as the sides of the container are chilled below freezing by the ice/salt mixture (see the chilling a six pack myth for the tie-in.) |
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Post by User Unavailable on Aug 11, 2013 22:31:37 GMT
The P-38 was armed with both a 20mm cannon and .50 calibre machine guns. Both types of ammunition were shipped in reusable steel boxes by 1943 - and what might be significant about these boxes is that they were designed to be watertight. I'm wondering if the ground crew took an old .50 cal ammunition box, cleaned the inside, filled it with their 'yet to be iced-cream' and then put it into the ammunition slot for one of the guns. I should of been more clear, after reading my comment again. I question the ammo case being made of stainless steel. Never seen one. Never heard of one. Can't find them on google. Steel ammo cans, no problem, got some of WWII vintage myself. Stainless? Not likely. Maybe a shiny steel one where someone sanded or ground the paint off the can, inside and out. |
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Post by the light works on Aug 12, 2013 1:39:24 GMT
The P-38 was armed with both a 20mm cannon and .50 calibre machine guns. Both types of ammunition were shipped in reusable steel boxes by 1943 - and what might be significant about these boxes is that they were designed to be watertight. I'm wondering if the ground crew took an old .50 cal ammunition box, cleaned the inside, filled it with their 'yet to be iced-cream' and then put it into the ammunition slot for one of the guns. I should of been more clear, after reading my comment again. I question the ammo case being made of stainless steel. Never seen one. Never heard of one. Can't find them on google. Steel ammo cans, no problem, got some of WWII vintage myself. Stainless? Not likely. Maybe a shiny steel one where someone sanded or ground the paint off the can, inside and out. I had interpreted it as questioning the "stainless" part, myself. however, It is also possible that the story changed enough in the telling or the original teller didn't know the difference between stainless steel and mild steel. |
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Post by User Unavailable on Aug 12, 2013 3:10:14 GMT
I should of been more clear, after reading my comment again. I question the ammo case being made of stainless steel. Never seen one. Never heard of one. Can't find them on google. Steel ammo cans, no problem, got some of WWII vintage myself. Stainless? Not likely. Maybe a shiny steel one where someone sanded or ground the paint off the can, inside and out. I had interpreted it as questioning the "stainless" part, myself. however, It is also possible that the story changed enough in the telling or the original teller didn't know the difference between stainless steel and mild steel. Agreed. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 12, 2013 8:55:49 GMT
I should have been clearer myself, which is what happens when you write when distracted by RL and on little sleep.
I can't find any reference to stainless steel ammunition boxes either. Both the 20mm and 0.50 BMG rounds are noted as having been shipped in steel containers, with at least one type of early .50 calibre box being made of high-gauge (or heavy duty)steel - although I wasn't able to find out if this was changed to a cheaper type of steel later on.
I also question the idea of using a 'bowl' to make such ice cream in. Logic tells me that if you placed a liquid into a bowl, then put that bowl on or in an aircraft, most of it is going to end up splashing over the aircraft as it bounced down the runway during take off*. I can't see the ground crew being delighted at the idea of having to clean out the insides of the aircraft - especially since this would be difficult if not impossible to hide from the squadron commander (who might well be otherwise willing to look the other way). I also can't imagine the pilot being supportive of such a rig, since if the 'bowl' is rigged on the outside there is a chance that any spilt liquid could freeze on the control surfaces. And if it splashes over the inside chances are this would be over the guns - off the top of my head the only area you could place a container in a fighter would be the ammunition bins. In fact I'd question putting anything you wanted chilled in the ammo bins anyway, at least with the P-38. The 20mm cannon had a reputation for freezing up - which is why this gun wasn't fitted to British fighters during the battle of Britain. The solution to the problem turned out to be redirecting air from the engine into the gun compartment, which naturally doesn't help up if you are trying to cool something in there.
Having the container on the outside makes more sense. The ground crew could attach and detach it without drawing unwanted attention to themselves. While the pilot could (honestly or otherwise) point out that he had no reason to inspect the contents of the external racks or tanks on a test flight. Pilots would probably also be happier because should they get jumped by an enemy aircraft they would not be forced to defend themselves with only a bowl of Ben and Jerry's.
(*We are, after all, talking about small light fighter aircraft operating from a grass or dirt airstrip.)
I suspect that the bowl in the story was what the ice cream was served in, not what it was made in. This would be logical if you think about it, since the base commander could more easily ignore questions as to where they got the ice cream if it turned up in the mess in a 'home-made' bowl rather than an old ammunition box (which was intended to be reused) or a drop tank (Which was meant to be used once and only for fuel).
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Post by the light works on Aug 12, 2013 13:53:24 GMT
I should have been clearer myself, which is what happens when you write when distracted by RL and on little sleep. I can't find any reference to stainless steel ammunition boxes either. Both the 20mm and 0.50 BMG rounds are noted as having been shipped in steel containers, with at least one type of early .50 calibre box being made of high-gauge (or heavy duty)steel - although I wasn't able to find out if this was changed to a cheaper type of steel later on. I also question the idea of using a 'bowl' to make such ice cream in. Logic tells me that if you placed a liquid into a bowl, then put that bowl on or in an aircraft, most of it is going to end up splashing over the aircraft as it bounced down the runway during take off*. I can't see the ground crew being delighted at the idea of having to clean out the insides of the aircraft - especially since this would be difficult if not impossible to hide from the squadron commander (who might well be otherwise willing to look the other way). I also can't imagine the pilot being supportive of such a rig, since if the 'bowl' is rigged on the outside there is a chance that any spilt liquid could freeze on the control surfaces. And if it splashes over the inside chances are this would be over the guns - off the top of my head the only area you could place a container in a fighter would be the ammunition bins. In fact I'd question putting anything you wanted chilled in the ammo bins anyway, at least with the P-38. The 20mm cannon had a reputation for freezing up - which is why this gun wasn't fitted to British fighters during the battle of Britain. The solution to the problem turned out to be redirecting air from the engine into the gun compartment, which naturally doesn't help up if you are trying to cool something in there. Having the container on the outside makes more sense. The ground crew could attach and detach it without drawing unwanted attention to themselves. While the pilot could (honestly or otherwise) point out that he had no reason to inspect the contents of the external racks or tanks on a test flight. Pilots would probably also be happier because should they get jumped by an enemy aircraft they would not be forced to defend themselves with only a bowl of Ben and Jerry's. (*We are, after all, talking about small light fighter aircraft operating from a grass or dirt airstrip.) I suspect that the bowl in the story was what the ice cream was served in, not what it was made in. This would be logical if you think about it, since the base commander could more easily ignore questions as to where they got the ice cream if it turned up in the mess in a 'home-made' bowl rather than an old ammunition box (which was intended to be reused) or a drop tank (Which was meant to be used once and only for fuel). I find myself doubtful that the interior of the tiny fighter planes was a solid block of superstructure and a clever pilot or mechanic could not find a nook or a cranny somewhere to stuff a container out of sight. however, the fact that the 20mm cannon had a reputation for freezing up (since the solution was to direct engine cooling air over it I presume that referred to icing up rather than jamming) it lends credence to the plausibility of using the plane as an airborne refrigerator. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 12, 2013 15:00:55 GMT
Do a Google search for 'P-38 Lightning Cutaway' (Or any other WW2 aircraft). You'll note that there are very few internal areas that possess a space - in fact military vehicles tend be compact and don't waste a lot of internal space*. Those large 'open' areas inside the aircraft that don't appear to have equipment in them contain fuel tanks. The end of the tail section and wings do have some 'open' spaces, but the former contain the control wires - meaning that anyone caught stuffing something into that area is going to be in real trouble and could end up facing a firing squad if they survive the attentions of the pilot.
The latter don't have a great deal of room, partly because of the structural supports and also because they are thin - in fact the thinness of the wings was one of the major problems in refitting the 20mm cannon into the Spitfire, and the reason why ammunition for the cannons was so limited (some 60 rounds per gun).
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Post by the light works on Aug 12, 2013 15:32:12 GMT
found this forum - not sure how much is accurate and how much is made up; but it lends some plausibility to the interior storage theory. www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/old-threads/p-38-cutaway-105.htmlI tried to find specifications on the size of the alleged luggage compartment, but apparently nobody thought that detail was historically significant. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Aug 12, 2013 16:07:00 GMT
The 'baggage compartment' was large enough for a small kit bag. I seem to recall pilots mentioning that there was enough room for a change of clothing and a shaving kit.
I think the compartment was usually located behind and below the pilots seat.
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Post by User Unavailable on Aug 12, 2013 18:06:48 GMT
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Post by the light works on Aug 13, 2013 5:17:02 GMT
or an ammo can? I'd go to out local air museum, but the owner augered in his p-38 and totally destroyed it, several years ago. |
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Post by User Unavailable on Aug 16, 2013 3:56:41 GMT
or an ammo can? I'd go to out local air museum, but the owner augered in his p-38 and totally destroyed it, several years ago. Yep, definitely looks like it would hold an ammo can or several ammo cans. I seem to recall an episode of Black Sheep Squadron (Baa Baa Black Sheep), where some P-38s came to the 214th's airfield and 1 of the pilots got out and pulled his duffel bag out of the tail boom. I think that episode was partly about how the P-38s extended their range by running a lean mixture with high compression. The old Sarge, head mechanic thought it was hogwash, but they convinced Boyington and the Sarge to test fly a Corsair with settings and see if it extended the range. The Sarge was convinced he would have to scrap the engine afterwards, but there was no excess wear, when he tore the engine down after the test. If that jogs anyone's memory, who may have also seen that episode. I also seem to recall the P-38s that went after Yamamoto, being on Black Sheep Squadron, but don't recall if its the same episode or different episode. |
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