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Post by the light works on Oct 3, 2013 14:41:11 GMT
Mrs TLW was watching Person of Interest, and the victim in this episode was in a luxury SUV. the bad guy took control of the vehicle through the ECU, and in attempting to regain control, on a level street at just over 50 MPH, the driver stomped the brakes, and jerked the wheel, causing the SUV to flip end over end.
my first thought was, "this is going straight to Mythbusters"
I think the existense of a luxury SUV might be plausible...
which shall we discuss - the unbelievability of the scenario, or TV shows that persist in abusing movie magic?
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Post by Cybermortis on Oct 3, 2013 16:10:07 GMT
{Moved to Movie Myths. The Section this was originally posted in is intended purely for information about Mythbusters - CM}
SUV's have a high centre of gravity, and are therefore at risk of rolling if they make sudden hard turns at high speeds.
Stunt drivers are quite capable of rolling such vehicles on demand without having to use a ramp or air-ram.
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Post by ironhold on Oct 3, 2013 16:29:34 GMT
{Moved to Movie Myths. The Section this was originally posted in is intended purely for information about Mythbusters - CM}SUV's have a high centre of gravity, and are therefore at risk of rolling if they make sudden hard turns at high speeds. Stunt drivers are quite capable of rolling such vehicles on demand without having to use a ramp or air-ram. It's also why there were so many fatalities during the Firestone / Ford fiasco about 15 years ago. In order to compensate for a rough ride, Ford advised owners of certain SUVs to maintain a lower PSI on their tires than what the tires themselves recommended. This led to erratic wear on the tires, which couldn't handle it as the rubber used to make the tires was of unstable quality to begin with (a strike had forced one of Firestone's plants to use rubber that was already beginning to get "old"; under normal circumstances, it'd have been thrown out). The combination caused the tires to have an alarmingly high failure rate, and when the tires failed the SUVs they were mounted on tended to roll rather dramatically. |
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Post by User Unavailable on Oct 3, 2013 16:51:23 GMT
{Moved to Movie Myths. The Section this was originally posted in is intended purely for information about Mythbusters - CM}SUV's have a high centre of gravity, and are therefore at risk of rolling if they make sudden hard turns at high speeds. Stunt drivers are quite capable of rolling such vehicles on demand without having to use a ramp or air-ram. What TLW is referring to is flipping END OVER END as he noted in the OP. That has to be movie magic. Hard turn and flip side over side, no problem. End over end? Nope! |
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Post by User Unavailable on Oct 3, 2013 17:01:24 GMT
{Moved to Movie Myths. The Section this was originally posted in is intended purely for information about Mythbusters - CM}SUV's have a high centre of gravity, and are therefore at risk of rolling if they make sudden hard turns at high speeds. Stunt drivers are quite capable of rolling such vehicles on demand without having to use a ramp or air-ram. It's also why there were so many fatalities during the Firestone / Ford fiasco about 15 years ago. In order to compensate for a rough ride, Ford advised owners of certain SUVs to maintain a lower PSI on their tires than what the tires themselves recommended. This led to erratic wear on the tires, which couldn't handle it as the rubber used to make the tires was of unstable quality to begin with (a strike had forced one of Firestone's plants to use rubber that was already beginning to get "old"; under normal circumstances, it'd have been thrown out). The combination caused the tires to have an alarmingly high failure rate, and when the tires failed the SUVs they were mounted on tended to roll rather dramatically. The NHSTA determined the Explorer was no more likely to roll than any other SUV suffering a tread separation. Driver over compensation or incorrect response were determined to be the most likely cause of the deadly roll overs. |
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Post by the light works on Oct 4, 2013 5:08:11 GMT
FM got it - not roll to the side, FLIP end over end.
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Post by Lokifan on Oct 7, 2013 4:59:07 GMT
Last I heard, to get an end over end flip takes a downward mounted air cannon firing something like a telephone pole downward.
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Post by the light works on Oct 7, 2013 13:56:48 GMT
Last I heard, to get an end over end flip takes a downward mounted air cannon firing something like a telephone pole downward. or embedded in the "road." I think they have a stunt road equipped with that. this one almost looked like wire work or a miniature, though. the physics were certainly blatantly wrong. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 8, 2013 13:18:06 GMT
I was wondering about that one too, but like so many other people I'm so accustomed to seeing this kind of crap on TV that I almost didn't notice. ALMOST. You're right. I just re-watched that scene of the episode and the physics are WAY off!
First off, it's a newer model Range Rover, just to get that out of the way. The vehicle is swerving right and left as the driver attempts to regain some sort of control. He finally stomps the breakpedal, which doesn't work at first. Shortly thereafter the brakes kick in (guessing whoever hacked the car must have given him the controls back at that moment) and the car, sliding at roughly a 15-30 degree angle, flips over its front left wheel. It's not completely end over end, but the angle doesn't suggest that the car would flip at all. Had he continued to steer right, it might have flipped over its left side and kept rolling, but that's not what happened in the clip.
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2013 14:16:00 GMT
I was wondering about that one too, but like so many other people I'm so accustomed to seeing this kind of crap on TV that I almost didn't notice. ALMOST. You're right. I just re-watched that scene of the episode and the physics are WAY off! First off, it's a newer model Range Rover, just to get that out of the way. The vehicle is swerving right and left as the driver attempts to regain some sort of control. He finally stomps the breakpedal, which doesn't work at first. Shortly thereafter the brakes kick in (guessing whoever hacked the car must have given him the controls back at that moment) and the car, sliding at roughly a 15-30 degree angle, flips over its front left wheel. It's not completely end over end, but the angle doesn't suggest that the car would flip at all. Had he continued to steer right, it might have flipped over its left side and kept rolling, but that's not what happened in the clip. and that's completely outside the fact that the standard onboard electronics are essentially deaf-mute. they would have had to rebuild the car to make it capable of remote control. but then I guess the entire premise of the show is that big brother is more pervasive and powerful than we peons know. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 8, 2013 16:46:52 GMT
It seemed like the hacker supposedly got in through the navigation system, which is online. But I can't imagine that the GPS and the ECU are linked in any way. That would be completely irresponsible, not to mention pointless.
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2013 16:51:25 GMT
It seemed like the hacker supposedly got in through the navigation system, which is online. But I can't imagine that the GPS and the ECU are linked in any way. That would be completely irresponsible, not to mention pointless. and took over the throttle, steering, and brakes... |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 8, 2013 16:55:43 GMT
Seemed like he still had the steering under control. And if there was a link to the ECU through the GPS then you should be able to take over the cruise control and thus the throttle. I'm not all that convinced you could override the brakes though. Last I checked there was no ECU control over those.
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2013 16:59:48 GMT
Seemed like he still had the steering under control. And if there was a link to the ECU through the GPS then you should be able to take over the cruise control and thus the throttle. I'm not all that convinced you could override the brakes though. Last I checked there was no ECU control over those. looked to me like he was fighting for steering control. |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 8, 2013 17:07:24 GMT
Far as I can see that's just paniced steering and the force he's working against is tyre vs. road at 50mph, which would give anyone a run for their money.
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2013 17:19:24 GMT
Far as I can see that's just paniced steering and the force he's working against is tyre vs. road at 50mph, which would give anyone a run for their money. not really. I'm sure it has power steering; which reduces the options to A: something interfering with the steering B: he's a moron. granted, other evidence indicates B as a possibility... |
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Post by OziRiS on Oct 8, 2013 17:24:13 GMT
Good one  |
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Post by Lokifan on Oct 8, 2013 18:20:18 GMT
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Post by the light works on Oct 8, 2013 18:34:10 GMT
true - carmakers are making cars with more hands-off capabilities. my truck has drive by wire throttle, and you could theoretically make the ABS refuse to allow the brakes to engage. my steering is still mechanical with assist, though. |
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Post by silverdragon on Oct 26, 2013 9:11:08 GMT
So sudden regain of a Land rover brakes cause a flip.
Now what about ABS.........................
(Which you cant turn off on a Ranger Rover anyway...)
As far as I can know, remembering I am a F1 fan, WRC fan etc but NOT a mechanic, I know that the ABS, Intelligent Braking, and CERTAINLY the stability control available to Ranger Rovers will NOT let you lift two wheels of the ground under braking.
If you throw it at a corner, it may lift a wheel, but you would have to be driving it to do that on purpose.
Sudden regain of the brakes, without any other force involved, such as collision with an object, is NOT enough to lift two wheels on a Range Rover....
You just cant get enough grip through the tyres to do that anyway?...
Unless you altered the "Game", I am thinking a sudden stop on a VERY steep hill and letting physics take over and the vehicle tipping by the centre of gravity being thrown forward of the front axle....
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