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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 7, 2013 17:33:20 GMT
I never mentioned temperature, just the effects of humidity on the bodies ability to cool itself down. The greater the humidity the less sweat can evaporate.
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Post by the light works on Dec 7, 2013 19:48:51 GMT
I never mentioned temperature, just the effects of humidity on the bodies ability to cool itself down. The greater the humidity the less sweat can evaporate. but this thread is not about cooling yourself down. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 7, 2013 20:33:09 GMT
I never mentioned temperature, just the effects of humidity on the bodies ability to cool itself down. The greater the humidity the less sweat can evaporate. but this thread is not about cooling yourself down. Well, yes it is. What causes discomfort is the internal temperature of the body and the dampness of the skin. In drier conditions the body can be cooled more easily and you have less sweat collecting on the skin, which makes the temperature more tolerable. This is fairly basic human biology. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 7, 2013 21:09:22 GMT
but this thread is not about cooling yourself down. Well, yes it is. What causes discomfort is the internal temperature of the body and the dampness of the skin. In drier conditions the body can be cooled more easily and you have less sweat collecting on the skin, which makes the temperature more tolerable. This is fairly basic human biology. so you missed this line: "while this is usually used to defuse a hot climate, it has become a running joke in my cooler climate." but what do I know about what the thread is about, I'm just the OP. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 8, 2013 8:44:32 GMT
Welcome to Manchester, UK.
Here, when I was younger, I walked all day on a long distance hike, pitched a tent in the rain, cooked in the rain, slept in the rain, and got up and did it all again the next day, in the rain....
Manchester Sunshine is actually a liquid form.
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Post by the light works on Dec 8, 2013 16:54:33 GMT
Manchester averages 31.76 inches. Lincoln City averages 97.27.
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 15, 2013 6:24:33 GMT
while this is usually used to defuse a hot climate, it has become a running joke in my cooler climate. the allegation is that 30 degrees and dry is preferable to 40 degrees and raining. the question is: is this a quantifiable fact, or is it just talking in the wind? testing would require putting people in the two environments; performing physical acts requiring both effort and manual dexterity, and finding a way to quantify comfort. my thought would be to monitor skin temperature at various points, as well as checking body temperature and blood pressure before and after. Seeing as it's summertime here & Sydney is located next to a rather large a body of water (the Pacific ocean/Sydney Harbour) I can easily answer this one for you. Living here I can tell you that from personal experience that it's not the Temperature but rather the Humidity levels that make things unbearable. A classic example is what the temperature was at noon for yesterday (14/12/13) & today (15/12/13) at exactly the same time - 23C. But the humidity level at that noon yesterday was at 68% while today it was only at 48%. When the heat is dry & you may be 'slightly uncomfortable' but you can function/work. What the humidity does is makes you feel 'sticky' all over just 5 minutes after you leave the bath, & it saps your strength & 'melts' your brain so your thoughts feel 'thick'. Making basic decisions &/or plains become much harder, doing everyday tasks require much more effort, & you 'feel' a lot crankier & more antagonistic over the pettiest little things ie: things that people might do (like tapping their feet or drumming their fingers) that annoy you but you can 'zone out' become impossible to do so & you 'snap' at people over them. You also dehydrate MUCH faster when it's humid than when it's just hot. In the summer when it's hot I drink about 1.5 - 2L per day of water. When it's humid I drink about 2 - 2.5L of water per day. I also eat far less when it's humid cause my appetite disappears, & I find when it's humid. That even if I do get hungry that I can't be bothered with making food because I'm so tired, but will go for the pre made option rather than cooking a meal if given the choice. |
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Post by silverdragon on Dec 15, 2013 11:21:30 GMT
Yes, but you get yours all in one month?... as suggested by you saying "Rainy season"...
In Manchester, we have the opposite, as in, we are "supposed" to get a summer...
More often than not, summer is just the month or two when it rains on less days than we have dry.
So NON rainy season is a more accurate description of our summer weather....
30 inches... if that is yearly rainfall, its under estimated.
Thats about half inch per week?...
Its more like half inch per day.
Every day.
Except three hot days and a thunderstorm, which is the average summer around these parts.....
That may sound an exaggeration, but its not that far from the truth?...
I am now trying to remember back to my HVAC days and RH measurements.
I know there was a measurement we used of heat to RH that denoted when we needed to run de-humidifiers in air handling units in large buildings during cooling, but for the life of me I cant find that bit of my paperwork....
But I KNOW that there were humidity testers in the air ducts for this very event...
Cool damp air does not 'cool the room' as fat as cool dry air, and then again, too dry and you get problems as well.
It may say 20degC, but if that is a damp 19degC, it may feel like a sweaty 22 degC....
If I could just find that file in my pile of books.............
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Post by the light works on Dec 15, 2013 15:08:21 GMT
while this is usually used to defuse a hot climate, it has become a running joke in my cooler climate. the allegation is that 30 degrees and dry is preferable to 40 degrees and raining. the question is: is this a quantifiable fact, or is it just talking in the wind? testing would require putting people in the two environments; performing physical acts requiring both effort and manual dexterity, and finding a way to quantify comfort. my thought would be to monitor skin temperature at various points, as well as checking body temperature and blood pressure before and after. Seeing as it's summertime here & Sydney is located next to a rather large a body of water (the Pacific ocean/Sydney Harbour) I can easily answer this one for you. Living here I can tell you that from personal experience that it's not the Temperature but rather the Humidity levels that make things unbearable. A classic example is what the temperature was at noon for yesterday (14/12/13) & today (15/12/13) at exactly the same time - 23C. But the humidity level at that noon yesterday was at 68% while today it was only at 48%. When the heat is dry & you may be 'slightly uncomfortable' but you can function/work. What the humidity does is makes you feel 'sticky' all over just 5 minutes after you leave the bath, & it saps your strength & 'melts' your brain so your thoughts feel 'thick'. Making basic decisions &/or plains become much harder, doing everyday tasks require much more effort, & you 'feel' a lot crankier & more antagonistic over the pettiest little things ie: things that people might do (like tapping their feet or drumming their fingers) that annoy you but you can 'zone out' become impossible to do so & you 'snap' at people over them. You also dehydrate MUCH faster when it's humid than when it's just hot. In the summer when it's hot I drink about 1.5 - 2L per day of water. When it's humid I drink about 2 - 2.5L of water per day. I also eat far less when it's humid cause my appetite disappears, & I find when it's humid. That even if I do get hungry that I can't be bothered with making food because I'm so tired, but will go for the pre made option rather than cooking a meal if given the choice. et tu, Lex? I just went over this with cyber. I'm talking about comparing -2 C and not raining to 5C and raining. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 15, 2013 15:19:24 GMT
Yes, but you get yours all in one month?... as suggested by you saying "Rainy season"... In Manchester, we have the opposite, as in, we are "supposed" to get a summer... More often than not, summer is just the month or two when it rains on less days than we have dry. So NON rainy season is a more accurate description of our summer weather.... 30 inches... if that is yearly rainfall, its under estimated. Thats about half inch per week?... Its more like half inch per day. Every day. Except three hot days and a thunderstorm, which is the average summer around these parts..... That may sound an exaggeration, but its not that far from the truth?... I am now trying to remember back to my HVAC days and RH measurements. I know there was a measurement we used of heat to RH that denoted when we needed to run de-humidifiers in air handling units in large buildings during cooling, but for the life of me I cant find that bit of my paperwork.... But I KNOW that there were humidity testers in the air ducts for this very event... Cool damp air does not 'cool the room' as fat as cool dry air, and then again, too dry and you get problems as well. It may say 20degC, but if that is a damp 19degC, it may feel like a sweaty 22 degC.... If I could just find that file in my pile of books............. the common joke is "last year, summer fell on a Sunday and more people got to enjoy it." our normal weather pattern is that it stops raining at about 2:00 PM on the fourth of july, may rain on the first and second of august, and then goes back to the rainy season on labor day weekend. (first full weekend in September, also the biggest weekend of the Oregon state fair.) but in the spring, it's not uncommon for my rain gauge to fill up (6 inches) in a week. |
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Post by Cybermortis on Dec 15, 2013 22:31:49 GMT
The principle and biology is exactly the same - the more humid it is the harder it is for the body to get rid of excess heat. In colder climates this still applies, although you'd have to be more physically active for this to be a major problem - or wearing a lot of layers.
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Post by the light works on Dec 15, 2013 22:56:06 GMT
The principle and biology is exactly the same - the more humid it is the harder it is for the body to get rid of excess heat. In colder climates this still applies, although you'd have to be more physically active for this to be a major problem - or wearing a lot of layers. again, if I had excess heat, I wouldn't be kvetching about being cold, and wet, and miserable. that is why "It's not the heat, it's the humidity" is a joke for us. |
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 16, 2013 1:03:46 GMT
Seeing as it's summertime here & Sydney is located next to a rather large a body of water (the Pacific ocean/Sydney Harbour) I can easily answer this one for you. Living here I can tell you that from personal experience that it's not the Temperature but rather the Humidity levels that make things unbearable. A classic example is what the temperature was at noon for yesterday (14/12/13) & today (15/12/13) at exactly the same time - 23C. But the humidity level at that noon yesterday was at 68% while today it was only at 48%. When the heat is dry & you may be 'slightly uncomfortable' but you can function/work. What the humidity does is makes you feel 'sticky' all over just 5 minutes after you leave the bath, & it saps your strength & 'melts' your brain so your thoughts feel 'thick'. Making basic decisions &/or plains become much harder, doing everyday tasks require much more effort, & you 'feel' a lot crankier & more antagonistic over the pettiest little things ie: things that people might do (like tapping their feet or drumming their fingers) that annoy you but you can 'zone out' become impossible to do so & you 'snap' at people over them. You also dehydrate MUCH faster when it's humid than when it's just hot. In the summer when it's hot I drink about 1.5 - 2L per day of water. When it's humid I drink about 2 - 2.5L of water per day. I also eat far less when it's humid cause my appetite disappears, & I find when it's humid. That even if I do get hungry that I can't be bothered with making food because I'm so tired, but will go for the pre made option rather than cooking a meal if given the choice. et tu, Lex? I just went over this with cyber. I'm talking about comparing -2 C and not raining to 5C and raining. My comp was playing silly buggies yesterday & one the pages wouldn't show so I didn't see your debate. |
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Post by Lex Of Sydney Australia on Dec 16, 2013 1:06:36 GMT
The principle and biology is exactly the same - the more humid it is the harder it is for the body to get rid of excess heat. In colder climates this still applies, although you'd have to be more physically active for this to be a major problem - or wearing a lot of layers. again, if I had excess heat, I wouldn't be kvetching about being cold, and wet, and miserable. that is why "It's not the heat, it's the humidity" is a joke for us. Come to the Australian east coast during the monsoon season (late Jan - end of Feb) & you won't be joking anymore.  |
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Post by the light works on Dec 16, 2013 3:02:40 GMT
again, if I had excess heat, I wouldn't be kvetching about being cold, and wet, and miserable. that is why "It's not the heat, it's the humidity" is a joke for us. Come to the Australian east coast during the monsoon season (late Jan - end of Feb) & you won't be joking anymore. one of my jobs was rebuilding lights in the ceiling of a community pool building. about 90 degrees (F) and a good 75-80% humidity. not to mention that the reason for the rebuild was that the chlorine fumes caused the power cords to start crumbling every 10 years or so... |
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Post by the light works on Dec 16, 2013 3:09:54 GMT
for that matter, keep in mind I have been inside structure fires...
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 22, 2013 5:19:35 GMT
You're right. Whether it's hot or cold, it isn't the temperature but the humidity that gets you.
If you're hot and wet, you can't cool down, since the evaporation process won't work properly.
If you're cold and wet, you can't get warm, since your body is working overtime trying to heat the water instead of just your body.
I'll take -10C and dry over +10C and wet, just as I'll take +40C dry over +30C wet any day.
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Post by the light works on Dec 23, 2013 1:26:34 GMT
You're right. Whether it's hot or cold, it isn't the temperature but the humidity that gets you. If you're hot and wet, you can't cool down, since the evaporation process won't work properly. If you're cold and wet, you can't get warm, since your body is working overtime trying to heat the water instead of just your body. I'll take -10C and dry over +10C and wet, just as I'll take +40C dry over +30C wet any day. and since you keep getting new cold water added... |
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Post by OziRiS on Dec 23, 2013 3:37:24 GMT
You're right. Whether it's hot or cold, it isn't the temperature but the humidity that gets you. If you're hot and wet, you can't cool down, since the evaporation process won't work properly. If you're cold and wet, you can't get warm, since your body is working overtime trying to heat the water instead of just your body. I'll take -10C and dry over +10C and wet, just as I'll take +40C dry over +30C wet any day. and since you keep getting new cold water added... Well, that's just a recipe for hypothermia if you're in it long enough. |
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Post by the light works on Dec 23, 2013 3:59:08 GMT
and since you keep getting new cold water added... Well, that's just a recipe for hypothermia if you're in it long enough. and in the short term, it is a fine and pleasant misery. |
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