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Post by the light works on Apr 19, 2014 10:58:11 GMT
Can you make a strap that strong?.. Para-Cord, yes, its strong enough, and multi-strand weaved, it would not cut into your hand. Would it look like the strap in the film?... Thats the fail. 300# rated Spectra (TM) fishing line is about the diameter of utility string - and, I believe stronger per diameter than paracord for reasons that they want paracord to have some body to it. (allegedly an overhand knot in Spectra does not reduce the rating to 150# like it does in 300# Kevlar fishing line.)
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Post by Cybermortis on May 2, 2014 12:06:08 GMT
Any more ideas?
I picked up on the trope of someone jumping and catching a rope or chain and hanging on, with the occasional variation/addition of the rope being attached to a pulley that allows the rope to drop when the hero puts their weight on it. Naturally when the line suddenly stops the hero is either able to continue holding on or falls and manages to catch the rope at the last moment.
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Post by the light works on May 2, 2014 16:04:22 GMT
Any more ideas? I picked up on the trope of someone jumping and catching a rope or chain and hanging on, with the occasional variation/addition of the rope being attached to a pulley that allows the rope to drop when the hero puts their weight on it. Naturally when the line suddenly stops the hero is either able to continue holding on or falls and manages to catch the rope at the last moment. I've jumped and caught things. I've also jumped and failed to catch things. mind you this is a jump that is small enough I am in no real danger of getting hurt if I miss. I'm too old for Parkour. addendum: which is to say that a longer fall would make it proportionately harder to "catch" because of a higher velocity. (is that proportionately, or exponentially?)
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Post by silverdragon on May 3, 2014 7:15:39 GMT
I failed the assault course..... What was it the PT instructor was shouting?... the idea of assault is you assault IT, not the other way around?.... (Insert name here) You are a horrible man that cant even climb a rope without a ladder, what do you think this is a window cleaning round?... Now get up that wall before I insert size 11..... That is a Scrim net, not a strawberry net, you are supposed to be able to move under one without being seen at close range, I could see you moving from the MOON.... Without field glasses....
(On the rope swing) You are supposed to swing like an Ape. I have seen more swing on the gallows....
He was a very inspirational PT instructor... inspired me to get a desk job as far away from him as possible... But he was equal opportunities....NO ONE escaped his form of humour. Not even the fittest escaped his taunts... "Call yourself fit?... my GRANDMOTHER could do better" From what we gather, his Grandma instructed the SAS....................
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Post by Cybermortis on May 7, 2014 12:23:55 GMT
What about the classic swinging on a chandelier. Or the occasional variation where someone grabs a rope attached to a chandelier (or similar heavy object that is suspended from the ceiling), cuts the rope and uses that to 'fly' up to a higher position.
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Post by the light works on May 7, 2014 14:37:01 GMT
What about the classic swinging on a chandelier. Or the occasional variation where someone grabs a rope attached to a chandelier (or similar heavy object that is suspended from the ceiling), cuts the rope and uses that to 'fly' up to a higher position. very good. one should note that the chandelier with the rope would be a real chandelier, not an electric light. my own experience: a standard light fixture box is rated for not more than 25# static load and no dynamic load. a standard fan rated box is rated for 25# dynamic load or 50# static load. anything heavier is required to be secured directly to the building structure. standard (electric) chandelier chains are typically plated mild steel with open links. I haven't checked tensile strength of the chain, but I open and close links to shorten the chain with either a special plier with about 10-1 leverage; or simply with two pairs of pliers. I THINK that is the weak link, but it could easily be the mild steel support strap that is secured to the box with two #8 screws through inch-long slots. based on this knowledge, I would certainly not try to swing on a modern electric residential chandelier. on the other end of the spectrum; in a theatre I worked in, the main chandelier was supported by a hand cranked winch and ¼" aircraft cable. to change bulbs, the chandelier was unplugged and the winch operated to lower the whole thing to floor level. (there was a small roof hatch used to access the plug and winch)
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Post by silverdragon on May 8, 2014 4:26:00 GMT
Modern fittings are barely able to hold their own weight. And thats about all I need to say?...
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Post by the light works on May 8, 2014 5:22:54 GMT
Modern fittings are barely able to hold their own weight. And thats about all I need to say?... That would be Ikea and Home Depot (what was it you called yours?) the reputable brands are quite sufficient for their own weight.
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Post by silverdragon on May 8, 2014 5:51:09 GMT
Modern fittings are barely able to hold their own weight. And thats about all I need to say?... That would be Ikea and Home Depot (what was it you called yours?) the reputable brands are quite sufficient for their own weight. We call it Ikea..... But Modern light fittings are designed to hold their own weight... and thats about it.
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Post by Cybermortis on May 8, 2014 10:02:43 GMT
B&Q is the British equivalent of Home Depot.
All of the scenes I can think of that involve swinging on a chandelier are usually in 'historical' films. The closest I can think of that take place in more modern times usually involve ceiling fans.
Holding onto a rope while something heavy on the other end pulls it (and the hero) up isn't limited to chandeliers, sometimes (as in Desolation of Smaug) it is a bucket filled with something. Other times such scenes take place on ships, where the weight is either one of the yards or (in the case of one of the Pirates of the Caribbean films) one of a ships guns. In the case of scenes on ships the objects on the other end of the rope would weight in excess of a ton - which begs the obvious questions as to if you could A; Maintain a grip with that about of weight suddenly pulling on the rope and B; Maintain a grip without loosing an arm in the process.
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Post by the light works on May 8, 2014 14:05:36 GMT
That would be Ikea and Home Depot (what was it you called yours?) the reputable brands are quite sufficient for their own weight. We call it Ikea..... But Modern light fittings are designed to hold their own weight... and thats about it. no, earlier, you said B&R or something. but yes, they are not designed to be winching points or anything like that. but the good quality ones don't have problems, while the ultra cheap and ultra fancy ones push the envelope. (I've commented that the ease of installing a fixture is inversely proportional to the price of the fixture)
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Post by the light works on May 8, 2014 14:09:23 GMT
B&Q is the British equivalent of Home Depot. All of the scenes I can think of that involve swinging on a chandelier are usually in 'historical' films. The closest I can think of that take place in more modern times usually involve ceiling fans. Holding onto a rope while something heavy on the other end pulls it (and the hero) up isn't limited to chandeliers, sometimes (as in Desolation of Smaug) it is a bucket filled with something. Other times such scenes take place on ships, where the weight is either one of the yards or (in the case of one of the Pirates of the Caribbean films) one of a ships guns. In the case of scenes on ships the objects on the other end of the rope would weight in excess of a ton - which begs the obvious questions as to if you could A; Maintain a grip with that about of weight suddenly pulling on the rope and B; Maintain a grip without loosing an arm in the process. there are three myths there - the one deals with the counterbalance used, the next deals with the trajectory, and the third involves the strain on the person. that makes it a good subject for testing. I know for a fact that a person can maintain a grip on a handle and be launched up to 40 feet without losing arms. however, that is with no shock load.
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Post by silverdragon on May 10, 2014 6:20:49 GMT
Another question would be, what would a heavy gun be doing that far up in the rigging?............
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Post by Cybermortis on May 10, 2014 11:20:39 GMT
Another question would be, what would a heavy gun be doing that far up in the rigging?............ The scene in question has the gun on the deck, with the rope presumably passed over one of the yards*. Jack Sparrow fires the unsecured** gun (a twelve pounder, as this is what the Pearl is meant to be armed with). And the recoil pulls the rope sending him into the air and onto the deck of (I think) the Flying Dutchman. (*Thinking about it this makes no sense at all. The yards would be running from side to side, so any rope wrapped around them should have sent Jack over the bow or stern rather than over the side. The only exception would be the spanker on the Mizzen Mast, but I seem to recall he was standing on the Forecastle at the time. I could be wrong about that, as I'm doing my best to suppress the memories of the films.) (**Not seen, the ton and a half of cast iron crushing the pirates standing behind it, then liberating the cannon on the other side of the ship and both making a spirited bid for freedom through the bulwark.)
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Post by the light works on May 10, 2014 11:58:59 GMT
Another question would be, what would a heavy gun be doing that far up in the rigging?............ The scene in question has the gun on the deck, with the rope presumably passed over one of the yards*. Jack Sparrow fires the unsecured** gun (a twelve pounder, as this is what the Pearl is meant to be armed with). And the recoil pulls the rope sending him into the air and onto the deck of (I think) the Flying Dutchman. (*Thinking about it this makes no sense at all. The yards would be running from side to side, so any rope wrapped around them should have sent Jack over the bow or stern rather than over the side. The only exception would be the spanker on the Mizzen Mast, but I seem to recall he was standing on the Forecastle at the time. I could be wrong about that, as I'm doing my best to suppress the memories of the films.) (**Not seen, the ton and a half of cast iron crushing the pirates standing behind it, then liberating the cannon on the other side of the ship and both making a spirited bid for freedom through the bulwark.) don't think about it. my best interpretation is that all naval ships carried a crew whose specific job was to rig swinging lines during sea battles, so that sailors could swing from ship to ship without being impeded by such issues as the fact that no such lines or anchor points exist on a ship rigged for sailing. (although on a square rigger, the yards do extend slightly past the beam of the ship, and I believe there are sheets secured to the tips of the yards as well as to the clew of the sails; which could allow a person to swing outboard, at the expense of losing control of the sail.)
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Post by Cybermortis on May 10, 2014 12:07:11 GMT
Those are studding sails, which are hung from booms that can be extended from the yards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studding_sailSuch sails were not typically used in strong winds or bad weather, since the booms were naturally thinner than the yards they were liable to break if too much force was placed on them. They were stored on the yards themselves when not in use.
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Post by the light works on May 10, 2014 13:05:06 GMT
Those are studding sails, which are hung from booms that can be extended from the yards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studding_sailSuch sails were not typically used in strong winds or bad weather, since the booms were naturally thinner than the yards they were liable to break if too much force was placed on them. They were stored on the yards themselves when not in use. I said sheets, not sails. www.fishermensvoice.com/201203LearningTheRopes.htmlit is the braces and clewlines I am thinking of.
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Post by Cybermortis on May 10, 2014 13:46:19 GMT
Sheets are the ropes attached to the outside edge of a sail which help trim the sail. They don't extend further than the yards because the sails don't, but those for the top masts might allow for a larger arc if used for swinging. Of course the Captain is not going to thank you for doing this, since the topsails were those most often used in battle and cutting the sheets to swing on would effectively cripple the top sail.
You'd probably also have the none to small problem of finding ourself hovering ten feet or so above the deck of a hostile ship who's crew are most likely raising pikes to greet you with. If you were lucky you might be able swing into the shrouds, but that leaves you hanging in plain sight of a hostile crew with no cover and no way to defend yourself.
(This at least is the case for a square-rigged ship.)
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Post by the light works on May 10, 2014 14:32:09 GMT
Sheets are the ropes attached to the outside edge of a sail which help trim the sail. They don't extend further than the yards because the sails don't, but those for the top masts might allow for a larger arc if used for swinging. Of course the Captain is not going to thank you for doing this, since the topsails were those most often used in battle and cutting the sheets to swing on would effectively cripple the top sail. You'd probably also have the none to small problem of finding ourself hovering ten feet or so above the deck of a hostile ship who's crew are most likely raising pikes to greet you with. If you were lucky you might be able swing into the shrouds, but that leaves you hanging in plain sight of a hostile crew with no cover and no way to defend yourself. (This at least is the case for a square-rigged ship.) yes, they are. and the lower yards are wider than the beam of the ship. this means that a person could theoretically swing from one ship to another if conditions were right. at the risk - as I originally stated - of losing control of the sail.
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Post by Cybermortis on May 10, 2014 15:38:11 GMT
As I understand it the sheets are attached to the lower corners of the sails, which in the case of the mainsail would only give six to ten feet of vertical height. (Possibly rather a lot more than that if the wind catches the sail while you are holding onto the sheets, as that could send up several feet up into the air...and probably forward.) This is why I was thinking more about the topsails and the sheets for that than for the sheets for the lower sails*.
(*Excluding the mizzenmast, which typically had a spanker rather than a square sail)
I'm not sure if Studding sails had sheets, but you could presumably extend them and attach a rope to the boom to allow someone to swing over if you were feeling adventurous/suicidal. Studding sails were not usually used in battle, and I doubt would have had the sails themselves in place at the time.
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